What makes you say this?

Question

I am leaving this open for responses.

Answer 1

those are ineffective just trip the guy and run away, even better take martial arts classes

Answer 2

Judomofo,

I agree with your first 8 paragraphs.  After that, we have some disagreements.

When we discuss "true" self defense scenarios, we always have alot of ridiculous questions from the students, like "What if your face down, and in a headlock, with a knife at the front and back of your throat?" - the answer is "Sometimes you die".  

I completely agree that best equalizer is a weapon of your own, anything you find or grab or use to level the playing field.  An opponent with a knife, you pick up a chair or whatever you can before you try an unarmed knife disarm technique.

I also think the rest of your answer assumes that every attack, every mugging, every crime is committed by the very worst sort of sadistic, ruthless and evil person.  

Many criminals are cowards, that is why they are preying on the weak.  Many will give up at any significant sign of resistance and wait for an easier target.

Someone may "grapple" with your wrist while trying to pull you into a van.

A drunk at the bar may grab your shoulders/collar area to threaten you.

I think these techniques should be drilled over and over.  They teach you body and joint manipulation, they teach you leverage concepts and vital target areas.  

If you are attacked, and are unable to get a weapon, all you have his unarmed techniques.  If your opponent is stronger than you, then all you can focus on are the weak points or vital spots.  I know you are not suggesting that the victim simply give up to avoid a more brutal outcome are you?  The idea is to do just enough to escape and get away to find help, or to get a weapon, or whatever.  

The traditional techniques won't guarantee success, but I would think the person with these techniques has a better chance of survival than someone without them.  

We also train with the FBI, local police and 1 prison guard.  I am a former soldier with a combat MOS and I find these techniques much better than anything I learned in the army.  

Have I ever used these techniques?  Honestly I've had two real fights in my life since I began martial arts.  1 at the age of 15, I'd been training for about a year, and I was attacked at the bus stop by another student, he tried to box me, and I punched him once and it was over.  The other time was as an adult, breaking up two of my fellow soldiers, one attacked me and I simply controlled his wrist from his punch and chicken winged him face down to the floor until he calmed down and gave up.  

So no, I've never done it when survival was on the line.  But then again, against the worst most ruthless criminals, "sometimes you die".  But I'd rather have what I have than be totally unprepared.

EDIT: Sorry, I got caught up in responding to Judo that I forgot to answer the original question.  

I don't advise to go for the eyes or vital targets in testosterone driven ego fights, but I do advise that when survival is on the line asssuming no weapon or equalizer is available.

I would rather jab open handed, open fingered to the eyes of a larger opponent than land a solid fist on the chin.  The eye poke will do damage and cause temporary disorientation, the chin may or may not result in a ko.  During the temporary disorientation, I have a small chance at escape, or doing further damage to the attacker.  

I'm sure we have all had accidental eye pokes during sparring and you know it's hard to function when that happens.  

James

Answer 3

Those are the first things they teach at most self-defense classes.  They are easy targets to locate.  But in most areas even getting into a fight alone no matter the damage is enough to get arrested.  

Answer 4

I always go with "comedy" on those questions man.  "Help in a street fight?" on Yahoo Answers is like turning to "Comedy Central" and watching Ron White describe his last marriage.  You should always respond to BS with even bigger BS.... that's my motto!!

These kids that ask these types of questions have kids answering them on here more often than not.  I'd do this and I'd do that .... yeah right a bunch of "computer geeks" that know hjow to fight? .... I ain't buying that!!

School yard fight this and school yard fight that .... Best answer is always ..... "go to a dojo and learn kid!!" I can't lie though I love messing with them and telling some of  them about the "superkarate" death punch.  Which I'll never forget for the rest of my life .... It's one of the funniest answers I've ever given a kid.  I say f***'em if they can't take a good joking and be creative with your answers like "the borad stretcher" that I had some kid ask his dad about as a "at home training devise" and the light bulb grease that went along with the "board stretcher"..... LOL ..... good stuff.  Feed them something that will make them see the error of their ways man that's where it's at.  They get the "sarcasim" trust me!!

Answer 5

those answer are usually given under the preamse that it is an life and death scenario, in which case thats as good as any advice u can probably give someone in text, u can always say avoid bad places, just run away, or use ur .45 to blow there brains out, all the actions u have said( kick him in the family jewels or gouge his eyes out) are either said for a comical effect, or for the fact that they are rather simple and straight for forward, and any one can do them with out much training, since to the best of my knowledge there is not right or wrong way to claw someones eyes, if someone goes out and trys doing these things in order to pick a fight then they should be arrested and sued, however if someone gets attacked the first thing on there mind should be to survive not the well being of their attackers  

Answer 6

Well I haven't seen this too often, but when I have it is usually a question from a scared kid who thinks a bigger kid is planning to beat him up.  In that situation a groin shot is a good option that doesn't require too much skill or power to use, and is not likely to cause permanent injury.  It might not work, but it i pretty much your best option if your attacker is bigger and stronger than you and you have no real training.  

The eye rake with a claw hand (not really a poke from distance, which I agree would be almost impossible to land) is a good option for a female being attacked by a male, especially since most woman have long finger nails and a scratch to the eyeball will likely create some distance and buy them enough time to escape, plus it can be used from close range, like if the man grabs her and pulls her close.

Judo - The women who get away are the ones who fight back.  Predators want easy victims, not fighters.  Of course weapons are a better option than an eye rake, but you can't always get to a weapon if attacked suddenly.  If you are advising women to lie there and let themselves be raped, you are crazy.  Every woman I know would rather fight back if it gave them even a small chance to escape rather than allow themselves to be raped, even if fighting back increased their odds of being beaten.

Answer 7

Good question !!!

I never advise  techniques unless its in person ,On here we really don't know for sure who we are replying to,and I'm fed up with the amount of dangerous advice that is given out so casually on here and I feel it's very irresponsible.

And I definately believe there are no rules on the street and personally I'd do whatever it takes to survive, but saying that I always walk away if I'm allowed to.

Best wishes :)***

Answer 8

It's a poseur litmus test.  Those people have no clue what they're talking about.

Answer 9

I agree with you in terms of a street fight scenario, which is why I generally just skip over those questions. Completely different situation if it is truly a self defense situation though. In a real "me or them" self defense situation, multiple attackers, armed attacker, cornered, or someone breaking in your place (business, car or home) I say yeah there's no rules there and do anything that you can to preserve your own life. I couldn't care less about the idiots who want to go get in street fights, let them do something stupid and go to jail. I have to admit that I have answered a few of these questions, but mostly either because it sounded like someone was worried of getting into a self defense situation and/ or while warning them of potential consequences.

I've taught several self defense courses with our local police and I agree with the main view that most of those guys take on it. In a true self defense situation preserve your life and deal with the consequences later.

As to telling these teenage kids on here how to really do some damage to somebody in a street fight, no thanks I'll pass.

I definitely know what you mean though.

Answer 10

They are ideal "desperation" targets. If someone jumps you, going for the throat, eyes or groin can give you a chance to get him off of you, get your bearings, and finish the confrontation or, better yet, run away. I'm sure that sometime in your life, you have accidentally hit someone in the eye while playing around, or been hit in the eye yourself. It hurts. That means it works. I don't think anyone should start fights, and hit people in the eyes for fun. But you also don't need 30 years of training in order to poke or scratch someones eyes. It's easier than you might think. Once you get your hand over a persons face, you just slide your hand over their face, and pretty much just claw at their eyes.

In real life, if someone wants to hurt you, they will. So for me, the rule is to do what I need to to go home to my wife and child.

Answer 11

I advise them not to fight at all. Street fights are stupid and prove nothing.

Answer 12

I think some people's answer to this is 90% inexperienced or braggodocio, and 9% being completely misinformed by others, and 1% validity.

Anyone can go through my answers (I keep the public despite the thumbs down or disagreements I may have). I try to be respectful of people, admittedly I also get mired down by what I at least perceive as ignorance (admittedly I could be the ignorant one, in the end all we have is our own experiences and teachings, and what we have witnessed in life).

Sadly or perhaps incredibly fortunately many proponents of these techniques and philosophies never have had to put them to use, or never will. They were taught these techniques and principles by people who also have never used them, and they in turn were also taught by people who have never used them.

Honestly I am astounded of the "No Quarter" paranoidist, who even talk about unnarmed techniques. Honestly if you are in a life or death situation and you are looking to use sheer unnarmed combat, you are in a world of hurt. Because it doesn't take training to pick up a rock, brick, to carry a knife, or to shoot a gun. Many dojos line their pockets preying on the fears of people, and attempt to seem more "hardcore" or "real" because they train techniques that can't be safely sparred or used. They call it too deadly to train in... which is funny.

Guns are very deadly... yet you can train with them.

Knives, equally deadly, yet there are Kali/Escrima practioners, as well as Emerson disciples training with them constantly.

The truth is if you can't practice it, you can't safely use it.

Despite considerable logical evidence against these techniques the proponents, (who have a vested interested in them) will cling to these thoughts and philosophies.

If I am in a true life or death situation... I am not squeezing testicles, or windpipes.. I am squeezing a trigger. I am not gouging eyes, I am gouging lungs, livers, and internal organs via any sharp object I have on hand or can find. I am not attempting to crush any bone with a precise strike, I'll rely on a brick, a pipe, a rock, anything to help make myself into a more formidable weapon... because survival is on the line.

However, there are people with a vested interest in simply saying particular techniques are easy shortcut ways of defending yourself.

Eye rakes/scrapes, or groin shots, ESPECIALLY in the case of Women's rape prevention is more likely to cause a woman to get brutalized worst, and some of the dumbest advice as far as what they should do.

People fail to take into account natural human reaction. The reason they fail to take this into account is because they have never actually used it.

Reaching in and gouging? So while your hand is finding your way across this persons face... what is protecting your own eyes, head from your opponent?

People with this sort of philosophy or methodology fail to assume that their enemy is not a clueless, non resisting moron.They assume that while they kick at knees, or grab windpipes, or rake and gouge out eyes, that their opponent not only is powerless to defend these small areas by simply flinching, but then would lack the ruthlessness to do the very same things back, and will stand there motionless in shock and awe, or immediately after said technique is implied will become immediately incapacitated, and completely out of the fight.

They fail to take into account that when you are trying these "deadly, no quarter, easy" techniques, that their opponent may also be in fear for their lives and will go for the same target areas..or actually do the even smarter thing and employ the use of a weapon.

They teach these techniques off reactions to manuvers that no attacker does.. Bear hugs, collar grabs, wrist grabs. A person actually looking to do you physical harm isn't going to advertise, and they aren't going to do something so lame. They are going to try to catch you unaware with a blow to the back of your head or other such things.

They aren't grappling your wrist, or your collar. They don't openly show you that they are carrying a knife and go in an icepick fashion at you.

They don't stand within grabbing range when they are threatening with a gun...

The reason people are taught this and are brainwashed into this, or say these things isn't necessarily because they are entirely posers. There are a great many revered traditional artists and "self defense" experts who have been preaching and learning these techniques and philosophies for a long time.

For every single easy answer, there is a ten times more complicated truth.

I could refute every single one of these techniques as to why they are ineffective (and have on many occassions). I could show some people every single piece of evidence, including going to their school, challenging their instructor in a absolutely no rules match, beat said instructor with "sport" techniques, and they would still desperately cling to these sort of techniques and philosophies.Half of these people don't realize that the people they idolize don't even believe in these things as "street reliable".

There is no single law enforcement officer out there that would say when his life is on the line that he is relying on any unnarmed technique. (That is why they carry guys, tazers, batons, pepper spray and radios).

Every single elite special operations unit in the world spends maybe 1% of their time training in hand to hand.. and about 80 to 90% of their time training in weapons proficiency.

However, there is a vested interest in telling people not only can they rely on hand to hand combat weapons as an end all, but that even in situations versus weapons, or mutliple opponents they can rely on it

While I think knowing unnarmed techniques is important for self defense. I would never pursue a would be home invasion perp with my hands... if he is armed or dangerous, I d**n sure am not thinking about gouging out eyes, biting or any other such foolishness.

Seriously, if you are taking Martial Arts because you feel it will help you defend yourself from a possible homicidal maniac in your home, or on the street, then I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have been lied to, and you are putting yourself at serious risk, when a 200 dollar 12 guage shotgun could take the place of years of you fooling yourself, and a 300 dollar hand gun, or 10 dollar knife would again be more valuable then the thousands of dollars you will spend in the long run trying to master unnarmed techniques.

The truth is people answering these questions with techniques because somewhere along the line they heard people say it, and they believed it whole heartedly, because somewhere inside of themselves it helped stem off some of their fear and made them feel safe.

So people will cling to it, because they have an emotional investment in believing it. Despite the fact that untrained thugs kill highly trained armed police officers all the time. That untrained civilians kill highly trained elite special forces operatives as well.

Despite all evidence to the contrary, they hold on to it because it makes them feel like they have an answer for a potentially unanswerable situation.

Answer 13

One of the easiest moves to do is to brush ones finger nails across another persons eye, cause the receiver to blink and protect his or her eyes.

It is very quick and extremely effective especially against someone who is not a trained fighter.

When trying to kick someone in the groin area one simply needs to get his or her foot inside the receivers leg and follow the natural path up to the groin.

It is very quick and very easy to do as well as being effective.

Using a stop kick or joint kick to the front or the side of the receivers knee is also simple, easy and effective.  Further, it allows the person doing the technique to lean away and create a greater distance from the receiver.

When one is being attacked and has to defend his or her self, the last thing they should be concerned with is that they might be arrested later.  It would be more important to be alive and relatively unharmed after the incident and then let the legal ramifications occur.

This one has never advocated a spinning wheel kick, jump kicks, nor any "fancy" movement until one has his or her opponent so injured that he or she would not be able to get out of the way or stop the flashier stuff as street fights are not "Hollywood".

This one would recommend stomping an opponents feet or instep, as well as using any and all available physical weapons one may possess at the time of the attack, including biting, clawing, elbows, knees,head butts, hair brushes, sets of keys, hair spray in the eyes, etc.

Answer 14

the eyes are a great target. In a streetfight you shouldn't be doing it as a strike. That's like trying to get a bullseye in darts.

Instead, an eye gouge should be sustained. Basically throw the hand out like a jab with the fingers extended and keep coming forward feeling for the eyes. once you get one, push hard that should allow you to grab onto the eye socket.

There are no rules in a street fight. I consider every streetfight to be a life threatening situation. Eyes, throat, joints are all fair game regardless of what the law says.

Answer 15

Simple. Because they don't know it's actually harder than it looks. These mar things you see in comedy shows and they think it's real. Which is understandable.

Oh and btw, Lol at the fact that yahoo destroyed Version 2.

Answer 16

I actually like the eye-poke as a self defense option.  I agree that poking someone in the eye isn't an easy thing to do if they know it's coming, but if you are faced with an attack it does 1 of 2 things:

1) puts the attacker on the defensive for a second - even if you miss.  That's enough to get away or at least enough to try another attack.

2) getting poked in the eye hurts and makes your eyes water. I've been accidentally scratched in the eye - I ended up wearing an eye patch for 4 months.  So an eye poke that works buys you time to get away.

In JKD one of the basic self defense moves is bui ji then o'ou tek - eye poke then front kick to the groin.  We sweep across the eye area with open hands and reaching fingers - imagine the motion of catching a fly- not a spear type thrust.  I truly think I could make contact with either the eye-poke or the groin shot in a street situation.  That's because I drill it - with partners and on the double end bag.  I know that training for this is uncommon, too and most people wouldn't practice it enough to be effective with the technique.  But isn't that a major part of what Martial Arts is really all about?  Being prepared to use physical tools in a self defense situation?

I would never fight outside tourneys / sparring unless it WAS an extreme situation where I feared for my safety or that of my family.  I'd rather walk away than fight any day.  So if I were engaged in a confrontation on the street, I pre-suppose that the guy is trying to kill me, not that he's some jerk calling me names.  And in that case, there are absolutely no rules.  Groin, fishhook, eye gouge, bite, whatever.  

I'm with you on the fact that for an untrained person, poking something the size of your thumbnail is virtually impossible - then again learning anything of practical self defense value on the internet is kind of whacky isn't it?   So I don't really answer those street fight questions unless I'm feeling out of sorts.  

I dream of the day when nobody asks for advice in a street fight, who would win, or what style is better.  Till then I'll do my honest best to help - well those who I think can BE helped.

Edit: Reading Judo's answer made me think about this a little differently.  I agree with him about the gun/knife scenarios - a person who carries a weapon and trains with it is going to be better prepared in a home invasion or other potentially deadly situation.  My response really doesn't consider that - I'm thinking more of a situation like going to my car in a garage and being assaulted by some crackhead out for some quick cash or a hothead guy who imagines I'm hitting on his girlfriend.  And I'd much rather get away from either of the 2 guys I mention than end up in a struggle with them.  So I stand by statement about anything goes / no rules.  But I'd say the scope of effectiveness is limited to that type situation.

I don't carry weapons.  I don't train with weapons. And I don't advocate weapons.  Yes - I'd probably get severely injured or killed if someone broke into my home with the intent to kill me or if someone started opening fire on me with no warning.  But I can't recommend or condone carrying a firearm except for policemen, security guards, etc.  The more people that have them, the more people die from them.

And if my wife is in a rape situation I'd rather she try to dig the guys eyes out with her thumbs or bite his throat than just take it.  If she kept a gun handy enough to use, I'd be afraid of my kids shooting themselves with it.   There is a choice that everyone makes, a balance that works for them.  

My choice is to train to defend myself and my family with no weapons - maybe that makes me a victim when a person sticks a shotgun in my face.  But on balance I prefer the unlikely prospect of that over the possibility of my son shooting himself in the face accidentally.  

That said I really hope Judo is nearby when someone pulls a gun out on me at the local diner.  I'll be hiding behind the imitation maple syrup.

Answer 17

Because like 98% of ppl who answer questions here they don't have a clue so they have to give stupid answers to big note themselves and pretend to ppl that they have knowledge that they actually don't have.

and no there are no rules on the street but that doesn't mean if someone knocks your drink over you cripple maim or kill them,you do what you have to do at the time depending on the situation.if you think you are in real danger of getting seriously hurt or killed then you use techniques that will do maximum damage with the least possible impact on yourself.unfortunately most ppl think a drunk knocking your beer over is a real situation and requires lethal force.