Save the males what do you thank of this new book?

Question

written by kathleen parker and do note that this is not a anti feminist writng.I my self thank that a lot of you here could use to read this book for it sheds light on a problem that in-fact is the core root to why anti-feminist are here and she does give good light on a real problem that should be troubling to you. The fact that we do live in a anti male society and we all know that it is not what women really want. want to learn some thing ........ give it a chance and read it. it is after all written by a women who is not anti fem.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06082008/postopinion/postopbooks/save_the_males_114474.htm

Answer 1

It looks quite interesting, but I don't agree with the author's opinion that The Simpsons is anti-male.

I have always thought that The Simpsons represents a highly traditional relationship of the worst kind.  Marge is totally submissive to Homer, no matter how stupidly he behaves, all she ever does is make that little whimpering noise.  She never stands up to him, she never overrrules him, she lets him walk all over her.

Answer 2

OjaiDeva:"I really don't see how it hurts anyone for men to be allowed to, even encouraged to, express the full range of human emotions. People say that emasculates man, but I say it humanizes them."

I have to disagree.  First off, men do express a full range of human emotions, saying they don't is just outright sexist!  >:|

But, to imply that we should become more feminine is ridiculous, because that means we have to suffer the same problems that women normally have; lack of self-esteem, self-respect, seeking out abusive personalities, etc.

If anything, women should be encouraged to become more masculine, but only to a certain extent (the world would suck for guys like me if if it was filled only with guys).  Like, women should worry about their looks, like most men do, and not try to push for plus size Barbie dolls and other bs.

"If dying in wars, having higher suicide rates, higher disease rates, shorter life spans, being loved only for money and having little or no connection with other human beings makes you a "real man" and "men are better than women" then men will defend their masculinity even if it makes them miserable"

But, I have to admit that this comment made me laugh because it sounds pretty reasonable when you look at it like that.

I admit that I have some bias in my thinking, I do have a mental image of a bitter, not so attractive woman who's angry at men when I think of the word "feminist".  Although, I'd say most people, including men around my age range, are "feminist" in the sense that they agree everyone should be treated equally.

It's just that as a man, I don't want to have to feel guilty for someone else's unhappiness when I had nothing to do with it, nor do I want to give someone else more privileges than me.  I think it's only natural for anyone to think this way.

But, looking at the problems women stereotypically have, I'd have to argue that it's better to stay "a man" than to become "more human".  But, maybe I'm just a brainwashed man who wants to keep his sense of superiority by defending the very prison society placed me in.

But, delusions are pretty awesome.  Have you ever watched "Pirates of Silicon Valley"?  In it you see Steve Jobs, go from young man who's trying to find himself, to this highly conceited, megalomaniac who's basically starting a cult at Apple.  Only to have Bill Gates bend him over and take it all from him.  

And, Steve Jobs, with his conceitedness never saw Microsoft a threat because they lacked "culture" and "original thought".  When Bill Gates told him down, he replied "We're better than you.  We have better stuff.  To which, Bill Gates said "You don't get it.  None of that matters."

Which I guess is true.  I'm not saying you're right, but maybe guys like me are like Steve Jobs and it's only a matter of time till God smacks reality into our faces.  

I liken the way "we" think to the ideal knight or samurai or something like that.  Live a life by a set of principles, even if they leave me "unhappy" and I have to die because of them, because living a life "confined" to a set of rules gives my life meaning.

I don't know if it sound like I'm going off in a tangent, but I guess bringing that up kind of explains why men defend certain things.  It's not necessarily that we do it because we really want to feel "superior" although knights and samurai look down on commoners so you might not be too far off.

Of course, some princples are wrong, but there's nothing wrong with emulating this kind of thinking.  Typically women, although they might not realize it, subscribe to a Feminist Moral Theory.  Sure, it's much easier to not worry about a logical, non-social set of rules about how one should live their life.  Yet, mankind (and I mean it in the androgynous sense) is able to achieve great things because of individualistic, unemotional thinking.

I think women should try some of this "man-like" way of thinking out.  We men may not live as long as you women, but at least we achieve some sort of metaphysical sense of "happiness" (if such a thing really exists).  The only thing that keeps this from being perfect arrogance.  That's usually every man's downfall imo.

Answer 3

Sound interesting!  From what I read of your link, I would have to agree.  I really hate the way some people think that it is alright to put men down simply because of their gender.  In my book, we are becoming a very sexist society- and I don't like it.

Edit: I have seen, (indeed grown up with) what I think to be a perfect balance of femininity and masculinity in a realtionship.  I think it is a true partnership.  My mother is a strong, capable woman, my father a strong, capable man.  Neither of them have lost their identities.   Sharing all aspects of a marriage or childraising does not emasculate a man- what does is constantly putting them down, or expecting them to behave as a female.  Men are different to women in many ways, yet similar in many others.  I don't think that Ms. Parker was advocating a return to a patriarchal society- just a move to a better one.  Equality works very well- I know, I have seen it.

Answer 4

More insanity. Abstract minds are still running wild and trying to make a buck inside capitalism. Writing about all these things tries to make them a certain reality, when it's simply not case.

What is reality is that society doesn't exist--it never did and it never will.

/thread

Answer 5

Ah, somebody else watched O'Lielly tonight.  I wondered if this would show up here.  Parker sounded like she has ideas worth considering.  She isn't a scholar, but perhaps this book should be assigned reading in women's studies curriculums.

Answer 6

I don't know. I haven't read it, but I 've read a lot of other books on the issue and I read the review.

I agree that men are facing new challenges today that they did not face in the past, but I don't agree with the (perceived) slant to  Parker's argument that we should go back to a more traditional view of masculinity. I really don't see how it hurts anyone for men to be allowed to, even encouraged to, express the full range of human emotions. People say that emasculates man, but I say it humanizes them.

Just as women are confined by traditional gender roles under patriarchy, so too are men. I won't get into comparisons of who has it worse; that could go on indefinitely. I will say, however, that men have been, under traditional conceptions of masculinity, expected to cut away large parts of who they are.

The old system decreed that men could only do certain things and not others and women could do certain things and not others. There are two problems here. First off, it creates dysfunctional relationships in which neither partner is capable of taking care of themselves. My grandma couldn't drive or write a check when grampa died and he couldn't feed himself or keep himself clean without her. Sure, it kept them married until they died, but they were deeply unhappy and neurotic.

The second reason the old arrangement is bad is because it said that what men could do was better than what women could do. That led to resentment and eventually brought the system down. The deeper problem is that is leads men to defend the prison they've been placed into. If dying in wars, having higher suicide rates, higher disease rates, shorter life spans, being loved only for money and having little or no connection with other human beings makes you a "real man" and "men are better than women" then men will defend their masculinity even if it makes them miserable.

I don't support the "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" or s*x in the city c**p that's passed off as feminism. It's not feminism. But I do support people having the ability to express themselves authentically.

It turns out that I'm not terribly maternal and I'm a brilliant scholar while my companion isn't particularly good with school (I've been helping him though and he's getting better) but he's really nurturing, a great gourmet chef, and wonderful with our puppy (will make a great, loving dad someday). It's just how we both are and it works really well for us. We fight about once a year (you know money stress) and other than that, our relationship is really fun, functional, and fulfilling. We're an awesome team and we will make great parents. My point is that when people are allowed to just be who they are, instead of being cast typed according to genitals, skin color, religion, wealth, or whatever, we all end up happier.

In sum, yes we need to look at men's issues and we are all in it together, but blaming feminism for antifeminst c**p like the dumb pregnancy pact girls, s*x and the city, "boys are stupid," gold diggers, etc. isn't an accurate response to reality. Sure some feminists are angry and some men are angry. That does not diminish the very real issues we all face, and a return to "father knows best" is not the answer either.

Edit: The+Univ...  Thanks for your really thoughtful post. I think we agree on the fundamentals. I agree, especially as a feminist, that women should incorporate some of the more stereotypically male traits. Actually, this is a big part of feminist theory. I also agree that men should integrate some of the stereotypically feminine traits as well. I think that there are both positive and negative aspects of both genders, stereotypically. For example, the stereotypical female traits of vanity, cattiness, gold digging, gossiping, deceit, manipulation and the use of sexuality to control people are all negative female traits. Lots of guys seem to confuse these traits with feminism unfortunately. Likewise men can be violent,  domineering, controlling, egotistical, callous, greedy, cruel, aloof, lazy around the house, etc. What I'm advocating is for people to integrate the masculine and feminine within themselves and to seek the higher manifestation. What I enjoy about myself that is "masculine" is my commitment to hard work and independence, my appreciation of science, philosophy, politics, etc., my ability to stay cool in a crazy situation, my leadership skills, etc. I do not enjoy my "male" tendency to seek to dominate others in debate or argument. Likewise, I enjoy my partner's positive "feminine" qualities, his ability to get up with our puppy, who has kennel cough, in the middle of the night, his wonderful cooked-with-love meals, his ability to tell me and show me that he loves me, his vulnerability in that love, his honesty about all of his emotions, his thoughtfulness and tact with people (even when they don't particularly deserve it). I don't enjoy the fact that he often won't confront people who mistreat him in his family. The point is, we both have these traits and we're honest about them. We don't need to conform to any predetermined notions of male and female and we are both equally valuable human beings. We are a sacred team, our love for each other not born out of need, but genuine enjoyment of each other. We actually help each other to grow. He has taught me to be more gentle in arguments and I have taught him to stand up for himself. You see? No need to defend ourselves about our rigid roles, no expectations that the other make us complete or give us what we cannot give ourselves. It's just us, two imperfect but decent human beings who love, honor and cherish each other every day. If he felt a need to defend his "manhood" all the time by forcing me to play some unfulfilling female role, we would both be unhappy actors in a play we didn't write. What's the point of wasting one's life like that? Life is too darn prescious for that. No, we would rather just be who we are and constantly strive to be better. That is the highest any of us can hope for.

Your point about the utility of "masculinity" is true. The masculine, linear, conquering, domination model has brought us to the current heights of civilization and there are gifts, and challenges, inherent in that. Humanity's greatest challenge, moving forward, will be to integrate the higher side of both genders and to give up the negative, dysfunctional parts. In part because of the male obsession with domination, we now face unprecedented political, ethical, economic, social and environmental challenges. Without balance of the archetypal feminine and masculine, in their higher aspects, we are doomed. We must learn to see ourselves not as female creators of life and male destroyers of life, but as human preservers of life.

BTW, in no way am I saying that anyone person has to be fully and equally "male" and "female" but rather that people must be free to be simply who they are, and that both male and female aspects must be valued equally.

You seem to recognize the importance of how we assign meaning to our lives. Keep showing that fearlessness stereotypical of males and keep questioning, keep seeking. You will discover treasures within you and in the world that neither of us can imagine.

Sorry all for the dissertation. I have a lot to say.

Answer 7

Women who believe in real equality and what Tammy Bruce calls Authentic Feminism are joining Men in fighting for our Rights. One of the Feminists who marched with Gloria Steinem in the 1970s is now a Lawyer fighting for Men's Rights with her Husband. She was quoted as saying she "marched for Women's Equality, but not to turn Men into Beasts of Burden to be exploited by Women. That is not equality."

Feminism today is about revenge against Men for past grievances. Equality according to most Equity Feminists was achieved in the 1980s. So Gender Feminists have taken over the movement. And trot out their Equity Feminist Sisters to speak for the movement to the media.

A synopsis of Women's Studies Textbooks used in Colleges today reveal what Feminism today is really and truly about. It is about the emasculation of Men and Boys. And trying to change our Biology and how we think and feel. It is about trying to reform Men who are perceived as Rapists, and Boys as future Rapists and Abusers who must be corrected. It is a Gender War that is ongoing and has been for two decades.

It is about elimination of our Rights to due process in Abuse or Domestic violence accusations. It is about different sentencing Standards for Women than Men. It is about giving Women Privileges and Men obligations. In short is about the predation of Men by the Government at the behest of Women.

What is articulated on this board is not how Men are treated in FemAmerica. And does not reflect how public policy impacts the average Male in The West.

Answer 8

It seems like a good book overall, but I wonder if she solely blames women for divorces that lead to child delinquency. And, frankly, I couldn't care less about a dearth of "manly men."

Answer 9

It looks pretty good.  Though this bit right here plays a fallacious tune:

"Men age 18 to 35, she says, are "perpetual adolescents who see no point in growing up," spending hours each day playing video games and watching mindless TV."

Just because we have technology does not mean that an adult "man" is not supposed to find entertainment in it.  Just because it's not golf, gentlemen's clubs, or hanging out in bars does not mean it's childish to play video games or watch TV.  Our selection of entertainment choices has simply evolved and expanded.  

Being a man is about doing what you enjoy and having integrity.  Working hard and playing hard.  And most importantly, ignoring these shaming tactics that women use to get us to do what they want instead of what we want.  

So, she's got some learning to do about what being a man is all about.  Perhaps if she studies up a bit more and writes another book I'll check it out.