Should I get a 10 inch telescope?

Question

I was thinking of getting a Meade 10 Inch LX200-ACF Advanced Coma-Free Telescope with UHTC, but was wondering what I could actually

SEE with it. I have heard validated complaints that this size of amatuer telescope can rarely see objects in our own solar system. Can you see objects a bit farther, like quasars, black holes, or nebula (particularly ring or horsehead)? Plz help!!!! I do not want to waste 2000 dollars!

Answer 1

"I have heard validated complaints that this size of amatuer telescope can rarely see objects in our own solar system."

Please stop associating with those sources of amateur astronomy information. They are horribly, horribly misinformed.

Let me start by saying that I have a 10" Meade Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope that is optically nearly identical to the LX200, only without all the electronics (it was the last scope made before the fully-electronic-tracking scopes started coming out).

With a scope this size you can see almost any type of object you would wish to see (not black holes, though...they're...black). Planets, galaxies, nebulae - all of them are EASILY viewable with a 10" scope.

I'm going to assume that you have essentially zero experience with astronomical observing. I apologize if any of this is stuff you know, and I mean no offense.

- You can see everything I just listed with a good pair of binoculars. No, I am not kidding. The Andromeda galaxy looks great in binocs, as does the Orion nebula. That's just FYI. It's a good idea to have a good pair of binocs with you when observing - they're great for finding the right area of the sky, or for looking at the moon.

- No matter what you buy, you will not ever see things the way you see them in NASA posters. The Cat' Eye nebula isn't blue and red with a green fringe. Galaxies don't have crisp swirling arms full of of red and orange and blue and white stars. Why? Because a) they are using much larger telescopes, b) the technology they use for imaging is beyond what most amateurs will have access to and c) they artificially color different gasses (primarily in nebulae pics).

- What do things look like? Well, often deep-sky objects are fuzzy patches. As your skies get darker, the air gets cooler, and your tripod gets more stable, you will be able to see more detail. I can clearly see the bulge and disc components of Andromeda, and during moments of calmness the horse head shape of the Horse Head nebula is discernible.

EDIT - I should expand here a bit, object by object:

  * Planets out to Jupiter look great. Not Hubble-poster great, but still "WOW!" great. On Halloween I put my scope out on the driveway and let kids look at Saturn. Kids and parents both are impressed. It looks just like the poster, only smaller.

  * Star clusters look great (one of my favorites). Clarity of individual stars is a factor of the apparent size of the cluster, apparent separation of stars, light pollution in your area, stillness of the air, etc.

  * Galaxies look like anything from "clearly a galaxy" (Andromeda) to "cottony patch of light" (small, far-away galaxies). But just *finding* one of those little buggers is a joy. Of course, I have to do it by hand and your scope will do it for you. Grrrr....   :-)

  * Nebulae also can look like their poster, or like a fuzzy patch. Size, light pollution, stillness of the air, stability of the tripod, all of it has an effect. Most of them will be relatively small in the viewfinder - not poster-sized detailed images.

  * Quasars aren't observed in visible light. So you can't really see them. Or rather they will look like the middle of a galaxy, and you wont' really know you're looking at a quasar.

- You should know that a 10" scope is actually quite large, and pretty much the limit of what is portable by one person. If you plan on building a fixed observing platform (or only going out to your back yard) then it won't be a problem, but it can be a pain to pack the thing up and take it out to a distant observing site. I do it, but I sometimes wish I had gotten the 8" scope instead - this is one heavy tube. For what it's worth, I was the only person in my astronomy club who carried around anything larger than 8" (not counting Dobsonians). A couple of guys had 12" scopes, but they had purchased permanent observing huts at the club's observing site.

Having said all of that, all of the LX200 scopes make me drool, and if I didn't already have $3500 into my scope I'd probably "downgrade" to an 8" LX200. My advice to you would probably be to get a really good pair of binoculars and spend a couple of nights just looking up (pick up an observer's guide or print out one of the online star charts). Planets, a few galaxies, a few nebulae, star clusters, the moon - all look really good in binoculars. After that, any of the LX200 scopes will work really well. Maybe a good option would be to get the 8" model and spend the extra $$ on accessories - eye pieces, field doublers, camera mounts or CCD imagers, filters. It doesn't stop at the initial purchase, believe me!

Have fun, and clear skies!

Answer 2

this is a big, heavy scope. you will see all kinds of stuff with it.

what the heck is a "validated complaint"?

you should have a look though one before you buy. then you will know for sure what you can see and what it will look like when you do.

Answer 3

My primary telescopes for the past 9 years have been 10" and 11" aperture, and I have found this to be close to the ideal aperture for serious amateur astronomy. I've never heard anyone complain that this size of scope can rarely see objects in our solar system: I've used it for serious lunar and planetary research, as have many others.

Your questions about what you could see indicate that you know very little about observational astronomy.No telescope will show a quasar as anything beyond a speck of light, and black holes are totally invisible with any telescope. The Horsehead Nebula is one of the most difficult objects in the sky. I've only seen it once under exceptional conditions with an 18" Dobsonian. The Ring Nebula, on the other hand, is extremely easy, and visible in an 80 mm refractor!

I would not recommend purchasing a Meade telescope at this time. They are currently undergoing financial restructuring, and it's very uncertain what telescopes they will be producing. Many of my friends have been extremely frustrated by poor quality and long delivery dates. I have chosen to buy Celestron and Orion scopes recently, as being much more consistent in quality and support.

Here are a few web pages with good information on beginner's telescopes:

http://www.gaherty.ca/tme/TME0702_Buying...

http://www.scopereviews.com/begin.html

http://observers.org/beginner/j.r.f.begi...

For more advanced information, read Phil Harrington's Star Ware, 4th edition (Wiley).

You'll get the greatest value for your money with a Newtonian reflector on a Dobsonian mount, such as these:

http://www.telescope.com/control/categor...

http://www.skywatchertelescope.net/swtin...

Buy from a store which specializes in telescopes and astronomy, either locally or online; don't buy from department stores, discount stores or eBay as mostly what they sell is junk. Find your local astronomy club and try out different telescopes at one of their star parties:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/community...

Answer 4

Quasars and black holes are detected with telescopes other than optical.  There are no optical images of these objects.  (quasars have been opticaly phographed but they look like bright stars) Yes people have made optical images out of gamma, X and radio telescope data but no optical telescope can see these objects with detail.

Depending on where you live a ten inch aperture telescope can be great or simply a overpriced light bucket.  In addition to magnifying star, planet and nebular light the telescope magnifies light pollution.

I use both a 6 and 10 inch refractor.  I find myself using the 6 inch more often as it yield images just as clear and crisp as the 8 inch.

Bottom line... If you observe from a dark sky location and have the money to spend go with the 10 inch.  Otherwise buy a 6 or 8 inch and get a good solar filter and eyepiece set.

Answer 5

I dont think you should purchase such a heavy and expensive telescope. The rule of thumb is HIGHER THE MAGNIFICATION, SMALLER THE FIELD OF VIEW. So please consider a 10" dobsonian. It will be very good for you to start.

Answer 6

I've a 4-inch telescope. With it I can see:

Detailed views of the moon

The planet Jupiter and its moons, but literally just the disc of Jupiter. I can't really make out any surface detail other than two brown stripes.

The rings of Saturn.

The crescent of Venus.

The disc of Mars but no surface features.

I can just make out the Ring Nebula, but other nebulas are just grey blurs.

Binary stars are a pleasant surprise - these little clusters of jewels are really worth looking at.

I think a 10-inch telescope will be hard to manage as it will be very heavy, but you'll definitely see a lot more than what I can see.

Answer 7

DON'T GET THIS TELESCOPE--at least not right now!  If you really want a Meade ACF telescope, wait a year or two.  The reason is that Meade is nearing bankruptcy and no one knows what the future will bring.  Meade has received a de-listing warning from NASDAQ.   That means their stock has fallen so low they've been told they will be removed from the NASDAQ list of official stocks if it does not improve.  You don't have to believe me, I'm providing a link to the CNN article.  And other regulars here please take note!!!

Meade is going into "turbulent times" and you can't be sure that you'll be getting support.  No one knows how the company will be reorganized, broken apart, or what.  The ACF is a very reasonable product that is replacing the SCT.   The ACF is also one of the reasons the company is near bankruptcy.  The production quality control was so poor that the electronic focuser didn't work and some people found wires going across the main mirror (that's a no-no).   Meade had something like a 60% return rate on the first run of this telescope.  It's a good idea that was poorly executed.

All that said the Mead 10 inch will show you the Horsehead (with an H beta filter), there are a few quasars you can see.  You can't see black holes.  M57 is trivially easy and can be seen as a tiny dot even in binoculars and shows as a ring easily in a four inch scope.  

From the question you're asking it seems you really don't know what to expect.  I have several suggestions.  One is to slow down a bit and order something a bit less aggressive like a C8 on a one-arm go-to system.  That will get you down to around $1,000 and give you go to and show you many thousands of objects.  If you call around astronomy stores, you can often "beat" listed prices.  Celestron is currently owned by a huge Chinese company and has adequate financial backing.   The Nexstar 8 SE is a reasonable scope that I have seen in action. It does what it is supposed to do.  

The other is just to get a better idea of what telescopes can do.  I don't get a strong sense of that here.  I personally like SCT and ACF designs but it would be good for you to think about buying a *used* telescope in the ten inch aperture range.  The major used market in astronomy is linked below.  You can buy a $1200 telescope for $600 there.  

Buying and selling used equipment will reduce your anxiety level.  Once you understand that a $2,000 telescope can be re-sold for $1200 to $1500 fairly easily, you'll have less anxiety about trying one out--the money "at risk" is not $2,000 but what you lose on the resale.  That helps.  If you buy a *used* scope you often can sell it again for what you paid.  So the $12 you spend on joining Astromart will help you a good deal.

To sum up: under ordinary conditions I'd say "go for it" with the ACF.  But given the current situation with Meade you might be better off buying a used 10" SCT or an 8".  There are also some nice Newtonian options on Dob mounts: Discovery is good in this price range.   And in the SCT and ACF designs you'd be better off with Celestron at least this year.  Once we know more about Meade is going to end up, it will be a safer way to spend your money.

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Posted date: 8/11/2008

Turnaround Illusive for Telescope Maker; Buyout in the Stars?

By Dan Beighley

Orange County Business Journal Staff

Meade telescope: company in third year of five-year turnaround, CEO says

To some, Irvine-based telescope maker Meade Instruments Corp. has lost its focus.

The maker of telescopes, binoculars and microscopes has been dogged by supply issues since moving the last of its manufacturing from Ir-vine to Mexico earlier this year.

Last month, Meade reported a 32% drop in sales from a year earlier to $12 million for the three months through May.

Meade, which boomed in the 1990s as the largest maker of telescopes, has seen its shares fall about 80% from last year’s high, giving it a recent market value of about $15 million.

The company faces the threat of delisting from Nasdaq after its shares have traded for less than $1 for 30 straight days. It has 180 days to boost its share price.

In the past year, Meade’s stock has traded for 57 cents to $2.30.

“I have often said that Meade has a three- to five-year turnaround,” said Steve Muellner, Meade’s chief executive, during a June conference call. “We are just now entering year three.”

Some familiar with the company speculate Meade could be bought and taken private, particularly as it looks for “strategic alternatives.”

Executives at Meade weren’t available for comment.

Muellner was hired more than a year ago to help a company that had been suffering from weak sales, most notably from its expansion into riflescopes.

Muellner, an avid hunter and formerly president of Moorpark-based sporting goods maker Variflex Inc.—which is now part of Santa Fe Springs’ Bravo Sports—sold the riflescope brands to generate cash and restructure Meade’s credit.

In April, Meade sold its Weaver and Redfield Sport Optics riflescope brands for $8 million. In June, it sold Simmons Outdoor Corp., another riflescope brand, for about $7 million.

Meanwhile, Meade’s sales continue to slide from what it says is general weakness among retailers.

Half of its business is done in the U.S. and half internationally.

The company is showing some signs of progress: It posted a profit of $1.8 million for the three months through May, versus a loss of $4.2 million a year earlier.

But “we will have another tough year ahead of us,” Muellner said on the conference call.

Meade’s struggled with a $3 million backlog created from interrupted production with its manufacturing move to Mexico from Irvine.

Even with the production delays, the company said cost savings have begun to kick in.

Meade expected the move to save about $10 million a year after it laid off 120 factory workers in Irvine last fall.

In the past two years the company has cut its workforce in half to 250. Less than 50 work at its Irvine headquarters now.

Meade’s competition comes mostly from Torrance-based Celestron LLC. It also competes with San Clemente-based Vixen Optics, part of MrStarGuy Inc.

In 2005, the Federal Trade Commission blocked a bid by Meade to buy Celestron, saying the combined company would have been too dominant. It was the third time in 15 years that regulators blocked a combination of the two.

Meade’s Fall, Rise

Craig Weatherwax of Oceanside-based Oceanside Photo & Telescope Inc. said that five years ago about 50% of the telescopes he sold were from Meade. That’s come down to about 10%, or $1.7 million of his sales, he said.

Meade got off its game when it started dealing with riflescopes, Weatherwax contends. The company could rebound when its production issues are cleared up and it focuses exclusively on telescopes, he said.

“They have a tremendous name in the industry,” Weatherwax said. “Hopefully the restructuring will bring it back.”

Meade shareholder Scott Roberts, a former vice president with the company, said he sees potential despite the current problems.

“They’re the envy in the industry with their marketing and sales force,” he said.

After working at Meade for more than 20 years, Roberts left to start his own telescope company, Laguna Hills-based Explore Scientific LLC, which expects to have its first product out this fall.

Explore Scientific was started with money from Hong Kong investors and will make its telescopes in China for the mass market.

Roberts wants to make telescopes for amateur astronomers and will compete directly with Meade with its models ranging in price from $600 to $3,000.

Answer 8

Einstein -

You will certainly be able to see objects within our solar system. You will be able to see all of the planets, including Neptune. Even Pluto, although it's probably not worth the effort.

You should also be able to see all of the Messier objects, hundreds of galaxies and nebulae that Messier never saw, and even a quasar or two, although they just look like tiny, dim, stars. Galaxies at 50 million light years or so distant will be relatively easy to see. Black holes cannot be seen directly, although you can see the regions surrounding them that are thrown into turmoil by virtue of their existence.

The Ring Nebula is easy to see, as are several others like the Swan, Trifid, Lagoon, Veil, Dumbbell, Orion, etc. The Horsehead is quite a challenge. I have not seen it with my 11 in. Celestron, since it is really pretty dim. It is really a photographic target and not a visual one - at least for scopes less than 18 inches or so..

I do not think you would be wasting $2000; this is an excellent instrument. However, you may want to go to a couple of open observing sessions hosted by your local astronomy club and try before you buy - just so you will know what to expect. These clubs can easily be found on line, and they are well worth the visit or two that you will need to know why you want this particular scope before you invest. It does have a couple of drawbacks (all scopes do) that you should understand. It is heavy and tough to transport, and you can get more aperture for the money if you are willing to sacrifice certain features. I won't go into the details here, and I am not being critical - it's a great scope - I just think that if you are spending that much you should know exactly why you want that particular scope.

Best of Luck and Clear Skies!    

Answer 9

My club has such a scope.  It's very nice.  But i like my $800 Newtonian Dob better.  That's because i'm not primarily interested in astrophotography.  My Newtonian does not track the sky, but fits in my car, was cheaper, and sets up in under 3 minutes.

There is at least one quasar that a 10" can see, and last summer, i saw Pluto (about 14th magnitude).  You won't see black holes - the largest scopes on Earth don't see those.  An oxygen 3 filter will let you see nebula even in downtown Detroit, in a grocery store parking lot with the flood lights on (that's a fair description of my driveway).  You can certainly see m57 (the ring), or m16 (the eagle).  The horse head nebula is very faint, very small, and from a very dark sky, and with averted vision, it's barely visible in a 22" telescope.

The $800 i spent on my 10" will buy 26 years of membership in my astronomy club.  That's what owns the 22" scope.  And it's a good thing.  It takes several people to take care of such a beast.

The 3 P's of buying a telescope are Price, Performance, and Portability.  Price and Portability are show stoppers.  If it costs too much, you can't buy it (unless you wait).  If it isn't portable, it stays where it ends up, and often that means you don't use it.  So that leaves performance.

Performance is about capability.  More light (the diameter of the scope) is "the more the better".  Tracking is a capability, even without photography.  Good contrast is a capability.  A computer object finder is a capability (which i recommend).

My scope has a big metal tube.  To get a scope that fits in my car that's bigger, the next step is a truss Dob.  Orion now sells a 12" truss dob.  The down side is that it will take longer to set up.

If i look up, and it's clear, i know it's 3 minutes before i can observe.  If i don't feel like it, i know it's time for bed.

Answer 10

There are several different kinds of telescopes and all of them have some excellent features. Refractors and Reflectors, plus Schmidt-Cassegrain, APO refractors and more. There are also several mounts to chose from and the mounts are just as important as the scope is. All of the different scopes and mounts have some features that some people like and do not like.

There is no one scope that is "better" than another except for the junk scopes out there which are all just a waste of money. Never, ever buy from Walmart, Costco, Target, or any other discount store like that. Junk scopes are flooded into the market from those stores. You will be buying nothing but bad optics and plastic.

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http://oriontelescopes.com/

Orion is the very best for value and for customer service too. I have 2 of their scopes and I will only buy from them from now on.

The Orion site has some excellent diagrams and explanations of all types of scopes and mounts.

With a 10 inch scope, things to consider are size--can the user lift and transport the scope to the viewing site easily? If not, then it will gather dust in a closet. Can the viewer reach all the k***s and buttons? I have a long tube large manual refractor and it is very dificult for me to reach the k***s when I am pointed to Zenith. I am not a tall person.

Take your time in making your decision.

I would like to suggest that you join a local astronomy club or astronomical society BEFORE you spend your money on a scope. There are many different kinds of scopes and what is perfect for one person is not perfect for another. Everyone has their own set of eyeballs and no two are the same. If you join a club, you can attend a few of their star parties and try out members scopes to see what works best for YOU, before you buy a scope. The members can also help you when you get your scope and show you how to get the most out of your new scope as well as to help teach you where the treasures in the sky are located. Hint: they will be especially helpful if you take cookies to star parties. Most clubs have loaner scopes and extensive libraries that you can gather more information from too.

Some people will suggest that you purchase binnoculars. Not a bad idea but dont buy anything less than 10x50 and you must have a tripod too or you will not be happy with your astronomical views because they will be too shakey from your movements. Personally, I prefer a scope to binos because if binoculars are not aligned properly at the factory, then you get double images and distortions that cant be fixed.

But when you buy go Orion and you wont be disappointed. Don't try to learn everything all at once or you will be overwhelmed and discouraged. Patience is the key to Astronomy.

You will also need a good star chart program.

http://www.stellarium.org/

This is great freeware that you can download. Just tell it where you are and it will tell you what you see.

I wish you all the best. Enjoy

Answer 11

I'm not sure where your "validated complaints" come from, but I had an 8" Meade Reflector circa 1977 and once managed to pick out one of the nearest quasars. The ice caps of Mars were easy, as were all other planets in our solar system. With a modern 10" Meade that has all the bells and whistles you can't go wrong.