Should parents who choose to home-school their children be held accountable for their social ineptitude?

Question

Go easy on me guys. This was from the dare question asked earlier in the R&S section. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Amk2VwfgAaP5L.djPe7wxoLsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20070914085924AAFM2gU&show=7#profile-info-54d4rDoVaa

Answer 1

I take umbrage to this statement.

I home schooled my children for 7 years.

When my youngest entered school, her teacher approached me at the beginning of the school year and proceeded to make a point of telling me how home educated children were always both academically and socially behind.

By the end of the 1st term, my daughter was still attaining A+'s which continued throughout the year - at the end of which her teacher approached me in humility to apologize for making the statements she did.

All 3 of my children are excellent students - and all 3 continue to make us proud in their social abilities. They are all leaders in their grades and social circles (12, 11, 9) and they are all comfortable with socializing with any age group - including approaching adults and holding their own in any conversation.

blessings :)

Answer 2

My 8th grader doesn't have "social ineptitude", at least not according to the stream of friends he has coming to our door everyday after their school before they go home. I work his school schedule around the times he can hang out with his buds so he knows I value his friendships. He also knows I have low tolerance for disrespect for adults such as myself. I arranged for him to work for a family friend several times a week in  a mechanics shop so he's around other adults besides me. One of the reasons I kept him out of the local school is because of the "social ineptitude" of the middle school here. Probably he would go to a different school if there was one that was better. Obviously the kids themselves hold their own parents accountable if they don't have enough opportunities to socialize. Schools do not guarantee a healthy social atmosphere. Some of the teachers are social morons at our local school.

Answer 3

Get off the homeschoolers!  I homeschooled my girls and they are the most wonderful social woman I know.  They can handle themselves with people of all ages, they don't cave to the manipulative peer pressure and they can be comfortable alone if need be.  We as homeschoolers choose the environment that we want our children exposed to we don't just throw them out there for this messed up world to twist their precious minds.

My brother pressed me on the socialization issue once and we went round and round and then he finally admitted that my daughter had no problem looking him in the eye and telling him straight up how she felt.  He also admitted that his own "socialized" children who attended public school did not possess those qualities.

Find someone else to pick on

GO HOMESCHOOLERS!!! You are our Tomorrow!!!

Answer 4

Given that nobody thinks I'm socially inept until after they find out I'm homeschooled, no.

But seriously, that's an impossible question.

First, define social ineptitude.

Now, define it in a way specific to homeschooling. No vagueness allowed in either example.

Okay, so now how would they be held accountable?

I'd go on a government rant but someone above me did it better.

Answer 5

I've seen both good and bad examples of home-schooling attitudes.  I think most parents who choose to homeschool (esp primary-aged children) are VERY interested in their children's social, emotional and spiritual welfare.  That's a good thing.

Two of my siblings were home-schooled (high school... so it was more like self-schooling).  They ARE socially inept... but it's not because of home-schooling.  

My little sis (severe epileptic) was sexually assaulted (repeatedly) in her first week of high school, by other students.  She is just not equipped to deal with such bullies.  The Principal said she was a hypochondriac.  That's how much equity you can expect in the public school system!!!  

My little bro had severe social phobias, exacerbated by my Dad's extremely angry behaviour, and then repeated suicidal attempts.  He was home-schooled because he REFUSED to go to school.  HS was part of the solution to his social phobias.  It kept his education going while his anxiety prevented him from socialising in the (to him) scary school setting.  Now my bro has almost completed his IT degree.  He's a genius, and he functions in public now, too.  If not for HS, he'd be a jobless, hopeless bum.

I also have a friend, a single mother (divorced) with six children who were all born within six years.  She home-schooled all of her children.  One day they came over to the house where I was living.  The boys treated the girls with respect and courtesy (I was listening in, while they weren't aware of me).  I was completely amazed as their happy, well-adjusted behaviour and kindness towards one another.

I think that is the key to understanding this issue.  We actually function better in this "big harsh world" when we are capable of acting with faith and love.  But early harshness can destroy that tender self-confidence that is so necessary for later success.

Answer 6

Are you suggesting that parents are approved by the government before being allowed to have children?   I suppose that would be the only way that we could hold parents accountable.  People could apply for permits before engaging in sexual relations to make sure that both participants are socially acceptable.   There would need to be extensive testing to make sure that there were no quirks in their emotional and mental capacities.  If, by accident, someone did have a baby and were not qualified to be a parent, the government could take the child and put it in an institution.  

The government could train the child from infancy.  Eventually, there would be no socially inept people.  We could all be alike and be trained to follow the crowd...and who ever the crowd is following.

Answer 7

yes and no...yes a parent can be resposible for turning there kid in to a complete loser and social outcast but the kid does have the choice to make friends i dont care what any loser kid says its not that hard to make friends losers attract other loser

Answer 8

I don't know, should schools be held accountable for students who murder their classmates after years of being bullied and outcast with nothing being done to stop it?

Answer 9

Should people who ask stupid questions like this be held accountable for their ignorance?  

I just spent the weekend with my homeschooled nieces and nephew.  Although they are teenagers they actually can sit and have a real conversation with adults.  They respond when you ask them a question.  They look people in the eye when talking with them.  They use good grammar and speak  in complete sentences.  They were very attentive to and patient with younger kids.  They didn't sit around playing video games and listening to their I-pods.  They interacted with people, of all ages.  I've seen a lot of immature, inarticulate public schooled teens.  Who should we blame for their social ineptitude?

Answer 10

What about parents who don't necessarily choose to homeschool but are forced into it by circumstances?

Or do you expect the government to build and staff a school in our backyard and in the backyard of every other family up here with school-aged kids? (lol)

Am I socially inept? In your world, maybe; I don't know* but then again I'm pretty sure all the public schoolkids'd find themselves socially inept if they were dumped up here in the middle of my community so guess that makes all things equal.

*I can't say, however, that I've ever felt particularly socially inept in the course of either of my two permanent jobs; any of my three seasonal jobs (incl. helping to run a camp for socially disadvantaged [and publicly educated] city kids - now some of those teens do struggle socially!); and whilst competing in sports at State level.

As a longtime homeschooler I don't think homeschoolers are incapable of socialising with our peers...I think it's far more likely that most of us simply choose not to get involved when things start getting silly and daft.

Oh and one final thought (lol): what about those schools where the entire student body numbers in single figures. I know of at least three schools where the entire student body amounts to ONE child. How are they able to socialise better by virtue of being at school than we are at home as homeschoolers in a family of 9 kids?

Answer 11

Only if parents who send their children to public school are held accountable for STD's, bullying, teen pregnancy, drug problems, adolescent crime, underage drinking, tobacco usage, vandalism, gang violence . . .  do I really need to go on?  These are social problems that are epidemic in PUBLIC SCHOOLS.  Does that define the social grace you are talking about?  I don't know if you remember, but Columbine is a public school!

Home Schoolers determine the degree to which they act like other kids, but in a lot of cases they just see the stupid, shallow, self-destructive group - acceptance - oriented behavior that comes from pure peer group socialization and they don't WANT to be a part of it.  

As for social ineptitude, when you are an upperclassmen at a University, have a look at the freshmen and see if you think they are teeming with social grace.  

So to answer your question, a double standard is not a good idea.  If you want to hold parents responsible for their children's social actions you have to hold ALL parents responsible.  NOT JUST THE ONES YOU DON'T LIKE

Answer 12

I wasn't going to answer this but since you added on your last bit - I couldn't resist.

Please tell me why socializing with hs kids is any different then socializing with ps kids?   You really believe there is a difference?      Or does that just mean that hs kids are better behaved and accept each other more.    Says something about hs kids doesn't it?

My hs'ed 9th grader just spent the summer working at a camp with a bunch of kids from all over.   Only one other person there (a now-20 yr old young man) was hs'ed.   The rest were ps kids.    He got along with them just fine and in fact now has a ton of new friends to add onto the ones he already has.

He has dealt with bullies - the ones that bully him because he hs's.   He isn't locked away in a closet afer all.

Same with my girls. They've had to deal with the neighbourhood bullies who are nasty and mean because we hs.  However, because they've been given the chance to mature at home and not be teased constantly by idiots at school, they can stand up for themselves and not let bullies bully them.

On the other hand, you can't tell me that every child that is in the public school system "socializes" perfectly.   Some are shy and some are loners.    Does that mean their parents and the teachers should be held 'accountable' for their behaviour?

By whos standards are you basing "social ineptitude" on?  Yours?  The guy next door?     So a kid doesn't want to be part of the popular crowd - does that make him/her socially inept?

New Info:  

My kids have been in Public School and they are now homeschooled.  I was in public school as a kid.  Been there done that.

My kids have grown up secure in the knowledge of who they are and what they want.   You said you homeschooled your kids/son (sorry can't remember if you have more then one right now) .  Maybe, just maybe as you were homeschooling him, he was able to understand who he was BEFORE being bullied and therefore is able to deal with those bullies.

However, kids who aren't homechooled and are bullied and teased from day one don't seem to know who they are and have a tougher time dealing with the "politics" of school and life.  

It took me till high school before I was able to stand up for myself.   My 9 yr old won't let anyone push her around.   I have seen very few 9yr olds around here that are ps'd that stand up for themselves - most head home to mom and get an adult to help them.  Yes, sometimes my dd needs me to help her too but more often then not she deals with it herself out on the playground.  

My 11 yr old dd is the same way.   They are leaders, not followers.  

Maybe by homeschooling even a short time, you've instilled those same things into your child.  

Yes, some ps kids are leaders. There have to be leaders everywhere for the followers to follow but for the most part, kids follow.

Additional Add on:

I agree with you completely on the 'formative years'.  However, why do the experts think the formative years suddenly end when they are supposed to be sent to school?  I've never quite understood that one.    When I see the way my kids still soak up information and love from me till they are 11-12 years old, somehow I think those formative years last a lot longer then the so-called expers would like you to think.  *grin*

Well, I saw the place where you were dared to ask this question.  I'm glad however, that you stuck it out and continued to read all the answers and answer back rather then just disappear thinking "Ha, I did it"    It has been in interesting discussion.

Answer 13

As phrased, the question is difficult to answer.  I'm not sure, for example, whether 'their' applied back to the subject (parents) or to the object (children).  I'm not sure what court hears issues of defective parenting, whether you're suggesting that actual legal action is necessary ( "produces nerds" added to the child neglect standards, for example ) or whether it's more of a religious "held accountable" (like "before St. Peter you're brought to account").

None of the state standards where I live refer to 'social eptitude' as a criteria for graduation, or for any intermediate stage. Interesting idea, though. If the goals of our educational system included producing good citizens and kind people they would probably be more attractive places, in general, and it wouldn't be necessary to compel people to attend.

Possible restatements of the original question include: "Should children have a legal process for evaluating their parents' skills, and recourse for inadequate outcomes?" or "Should all aspects of our education be designed to produce better people?"  " Does the government have a right overriding traditional interpretations of civil liberties to monitor the social (or alternatively, parenting) skills of its citizens?"

Without a clear statement of the question it would be difficult to design any test for evaluating answers.

Answer 14

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

~ Abraham Lincoln

Answer 15

excuse me inept come now havent meet any of those homeschoolers homeschoolers dont sit at home in a closet they actually have an awesome life and if you dont then thats your problem for not getting involved

Answer 16

What social ineptitude?

I'm homeschooled,and have been my entire life,I have plenty of friends and most didn't realize I was homeschooled until l told them,the others are homeschooled themselves.Thereby proving that homeschoolers aren't automatically identifiable by their lack of social skills.Now I would go into how pathetic public schooler's social skills are,but someone above has already done that.

Answer 17

Judging an individual's "social ineptitude" seems a bit subjective to me.

Also there appear to be some serious holes in your logic...  

Perhaps you have met a home educated individual, or even ten, and you have judged them to be "socially inept."   You therefore have come to a conclusion, faulty though it may be, that this ineptitude stems from the home education.  

Now perhaps I have met a few people in my 30-odd years who strike me as lacking in a number of social graces.  Perhaps these people just happen to have been educated in a public school.  

Should I then present a statement hidden in a question, accusing the public schools of ruining the social potential of it's students?  Or perhaps I should pose that same querry, only pointing the finger of accusation at the parents for sending said children to be ruined at said schools.  Perhaps even go farther to accuse society at large for creating the public school system and requiring parents to bus in their children for ruination?

All of those hasty generalizations sound a bit contrived.  Ridiculous, even.  The same could be said for someone's subjective assumption that "social ineptitudes" (real or imagined) are brought about by homeschooling.  

The ability to relate to other individuals in society is a complex behavior - learned and inherited, shaped by a lifetime of circumstances, the vast majority of which are beyond the control of the individual and even beyond the control of a homeschooling parent.

So.  I suppose that I would have to say if you can't let go of such a fallacious perception, then if you will hold homeschooing families accountable for "socially inept" children, you will also need to hold the parents & education system accountable for their "socially inept" students as well.   You may want to add other students, the community, and modern society to that accountability list as well.

Edited - After your mention of the school bully I have to add the following to my answer:

Dealing with a bully does not equate social grace or aptitude.  A socially adept child will be capable of conversing with other people, of making friends with new individuals, of understanding some nonverbal cues in a variety of interactions.  

Dealing with an abusive individual is not in the average, well adjusted child's repertoire.  As adults we are not expected to easily cope with (or accept) verbal abuse, harassment & assault.  

In the situation you cite - bullies - the bullies are the ones with the social ineptitude.  In such cases the victim of the bully is at the mercy of a complex combination of fight or flight instinct and their own moral beliefs.  

The ability or inability of a child to deal with a bully (which in itself is a ridiculous necessity) is no indication of their social grace.

Answer 18

The obvious bias in your question (social "ineptitude"?) aside, ...

When was the last time you had to deal with a bully intentionally knocking files out of your hands at work?  When was the last time one of your colleagues offered you a drink from the flask in their desk or cocaine?  When was the last time your co-worker tried to back you into a corner for a sexually-explicit moment or grabbed your behind in the cafeteria?  When was the last time your workplace was put in lock-down because of a bomb threat?

In the "real world" where my kids are living, these kinds of things don't happen everyday.  In public high schools, well, ... I'm sure you've heard the stories.

So, if we're going to hold homeschool parents accountable, I assume you'd hold public school officials accountable for all the social "misfits" (from juvenile delinquents to shy kids) that graduate from the local high school?  It's only fair, right?

Answer 19

Hahahahah, they should be.  They probably will be when the kid can't get a job or get into college.

Answer 20

Only if the parents dont sign their kids up for sports and activities around the area. You need your kids to have time around people outside family, and into meeting new people.

Answer 21

The question itself has some serious issues. Let's just say it had some merit of some sort in the first place: WHAT does it mean to be 'held accountable'? The government's going to put something their 'parenting file' that says the parents didn't raise their children to be socially adept? Who's going to decide if a particular child's social ineptitude is the result of homeschooling or parenting or just natural state? And who's going to decide what would happen to parents who are 'being held accountable'?

That nonsense out of the way, should public school be held accountable for their students' social ineptitude? Or should parents who choose to send their kids to public school be held accountable for their children's social ineptitude? Or maybe the government for structuring public schools the way they have?

If you are asking this as a homeschooling parent curious to get the naysayers going, fine. If you honestly believe that homeschooled children are automatically socially inept, you really ought to learn more before judging.

ADDED: First of all, I don't expect my kids to end up in public school and that type of behaviour is VERY different from what they will experience as adults. I hardly think that it's advisable to send a child to public school so they can learn to deal with behaviour that's only present in public schools. Secondly, I do not limit my children's exposure to only homeschooled kids. Sure, we do things with homeschoolers, but their cousins aren't homeschooled, they attend community lessons, go to community playgrounds and play... If you feel you should have been held accountable for your kids not learning how to deal with certain things, fine. But my kids do deal with those things, just not on a daily basis. I feel sad that you view your children as having been socially inept instead of recognizing that you are looking at two entirely different cultures--and one (public school) is a temporary one at that. Should North American parents be held accountable for their kids being socially inept in terms of Japanese society? Two different cultures, two different ways of living.

"Just remember that it will be your children who have to live with this in the end. " What is that supposed to mean? That it's a bad thing for our kids to be different? That it's best that they live in a less-than-ideal situation so they can turn out like everybody else? How about the flip side? How about, instead of giving in, taking a step towards creating a better society? My children will have to live with whatever choice I make. I'd rather they live with the fortitude to do what is right, even if it means being very different, than to sit around being bullied. (Why in the world do you feel like your children have to experience bullying????)

Answer 22

YES DEFINITELY, they are accountable for everything about their children.

The same goes the other way, they are accountable for putting kids in public schools too...(they have to make sure their kids are learning the right stuff in public schools, and not getting messed up with bad stuff)

Answer 23

Yes

Answer 24

only if the parents whose kids are in public schools should be held responsible for their social ineptitude AND academic ineptitude.

Sorry, I only know one homeschooled child who is socially inept and that is not a result of her being homeschooled- she would have the same problems in public or any other school.

Most homeschoolers I know are much more mature and able in social situations than public schooled kids- not that all public schooled kids are inept but homeschooled kids have them beat when it comes to handling themselves in a confident and mature manner in any social situation.

Answer 25

Nonsense! In practice home-schooled kids interact with other home schooled kids in the neighborhood and do very well socially.

This contrasts with the bullying and law-of-the-jungle social conditioning that kids get subjected to in normal schools.

Answer 26

Should people who believe fallacious stereotypes over obvious fact be held accountable for their ignorant and ludicrous comments?

Just wondering.

By the way, hon...kids who choose to be who they are instead of following the crowd, kids who can think for themselves, kids who are responsible for their work and their future, and kids who are able to function around all ages and backgrounds of people - aren't inept.  They're responsible.  They're independent and mature.  There's a difference.

Problem is, there is such a shortage of kids who are able to do that these days that this behavior is now seen as "socially unaware".  How completely sad is that.

Edit:  A former homeschooler stooping to such an ignorant question on a silly dare?  No one here will go easy on you.  You get what you get.  You have probably lost a lot of respect, though...does that count?

Answer 27

Should parents who choose to send their kids to public school be held accountable for their social ineptitude?  I believe that people learn the most important social skills at home and then apply what they've learned in social settings.  No matter where you go or where you were educated, you will see people who are socially inept.

Answer 28

Do some research.

All parents should be held accountable for their children's social ineptitude regardless of the form of education.

Be it public, private or home school, social skills are taught at home and in the company of people of varying ages.

The tone of your question, regardless of which form of education you have or had, indicates that your parents may be first on the list.