Should violent “disturbed” children be allowed to attend public schools?

Question

Should violent “disturbed” children be allowed to attend public schools?

Answer 1

As a public school teacher...the answer is NO....We can be all democratic and say all the right things about fairness and the Williams Act but the truly ED (emotionally disturbed) students I have had or observed have not benefitted from regular ed nor has the class....sory that's just the truth....If everything were ideal and people really cared and wanted what they say they want and we had small class sizes and aides and parental support, sure maybe then...but in the majority of classrooms the teacher to student ratio makes it impossible....most parents have difficulty and they deal at most 3 to 1.  

No there is little benefit if any...sorry, and if student is violent...absolutely none.....

Answer 2

Violent, emotionally disturbed children should not be allowed to attend public schools. They should be sent to school for children with special needs. These children need special attention and they might find it difficult to learn at a normal pace.

Answer 3

Everyone talks about their rights but what about the other children?  Don't they have any rights?  Do they not have the right to attend school without becoming a victim at the hands of another student?

I understand that every child has a right to attend public schools and that children with special needs are entitled to a Free Appropriate Public Education in the Least Restrictive Environment.     I do GET that.  However, there is a point  especially with violent children where it isn't a good idea to have them around the other students and that point is BEFORE there is a massacre like at Columbine.

Answer 4

I teach a Clinical Day Treatment (CDT) program in a public school.  The children I teach are labeled ED and need a consistent, structured, therapeutic environment in order to access an appropriate education.  My students are very successful and most spend some time with their general education peers.  I have paraprofessionals that are available to support the students and maintain a safe environment for ALL.  In the past 7 years, I have had to out place a few students to a more structured program because they were not successful or posed a possible threat to themselves or others.  I don't think it is fair to lump all students with ED in a category which denies them a public education.  I do, however, believe that all schools should be required to offer a CDT program at each grade level.

Answer 5

forget school. they should be removed from society. they arent ever going to amount to anything, so no point in wasting money feeding them

Answer 6

Free Appropriate Public Education (FAPE) is guaranteed by federal law in the United States so EVERY child, regardless of disability or ability, has the right to attend public schools.  Actually, it's the law that students attend a school, public or private, or be home schooled until the age of 16.  FAPE is a very important part of special education and drives the placement of every student determined to be eligible for special education services.

Free means the parents don't have to pay for any of the extra services or costs of educating their child.  

Appropriate means that the placement of each child will be where the child will get the most educational benefit - could be a general education class, resource class, self-contained class within a regular school, special day school just for students with disabilities or a boarding school where the student lives.  

Public means that every student with a disability is entitled to be in a school supported by taxes.

Education means that students are taught a curriculum that is in keeping with their disability, so students with severe emotional disturbances needs to be taught self-control, how to manage their feelings, how to recognize when they are about to lose control and what to do about it in a constructive manner.

So, to answer your question, yes, "violent 'disturbed' children" should be "allowed" (required) to attend public schools, it just might not be your neighborhood school, but one with teachers with special training and who can see beyond the behaviors to the person within.

Answer 7

They are entitled by FAPE.

I think I understand your question, though. As an elementary teacher, I also rebelled against having the schizophrenic student in with my other special needs students. I also did not want the autistic kindergartner that constantly grabbed another student and humped him while l*****g his ears. How traumatizing for the other student.

My expertise is in specific learning disabilities, I had no experience with behavior or mental disabilities. Through the years the schizophrenic child would be hospitalized only to return to public school (and labeled incorrigible by the hospital). They could medicate him when he had violent outbursts, I could only clear the room and call for back-up. Law enforcement came often. He had been sexually abused by his father for the first two years of his life. Now he sits in a jail cell, and produced four children.

While the law says they can attend, I feel that they deserve the best treatment available in a safe environment, so something needs to be done to ensure they get what they need without endangering themselves or others. It is unfair when a school tells the only special ed teacher they have to take care of the kid, or else they will have to find someone who can.

Now with NCLB (No Child Left Behind) making schools have highly qualified staff, teachers like myself who are only trained in mild to moderate problems should not have to manage a severe behavior problem in the same setting with mildly disabled.

Now that I work at the high school level, I often find myself wanting to say to parents, "I am not your child's warden. Your child is a teenager and needs to be allowed to make mistakes in this safe environment without interference. That is the best way to learn some things." We do have one girl who throws chairs once or twice a year, so far only at the teachers. I do call the campus officer, but at this level violent students are removed. It's just a shame the same thing does not happen when they are in elementary school before they harm themselves or others.

We need quality mental health solutions, but sadly there are very few and our county cannot seem to keep such service going. Mental health facilities also provide school services. I think the problem is many misunderstandings have existed in the past. People were put away when a simple change in diet should have occurred. Or folks suffering from Huntington's were locked away with the insane while their's was a medical condition.

Answer 8

with the correct support- yes- isn't it every child right, not a privilege for the so called normal

Answer 9

depends on what "disturbed" means. reply

Answer 10

with appropriate special ed placement yes.  maybe a self contained classroom.  it isnt their fault they are violent and disturbed on the other hand other students shouldnt be jeopardized by their being there, my high school district has an off campus special ed building seprate fromm the regular special education departments.  maybe with a maximum of 3-4 students in the class it could work.  often the violent behavior gets worse or is triggerd by certain situations.  removing or reducing those situations could make them more manageable

Answer 11

The question is not should they be, schools are requird to teach them, for better or worse. The more appropriate question is this: Is public school the best settig for these children?

I would nearly answer a resounding NO. But, I am well aware that amny do well if the school and parents work as a team and have the right supports avaible to the child to enable the child to do several things. Those things are, to succeed as well as they are able, to teach appropriate behavior safely, and to be adept enough  to read the cues and head off disaster before it happens. Not every teacher can do that. Not every school will have the right social skills or behavior modification structures to do that. Not every school can help these children succeed and do so safely.

Some teachers have a gifting for teaching these students, they are able to pick apart the behaviors and figure out the triggers and they do it without realizing what they have sone. This is not a skill that can be taught in my opinion.

My son has PDD-NOS, or so some say. Others think he is just a bad kid. Those folks I don't want working with him, they can't and won't help him find success and exacerbate already problematic behaviors. Unfortunately those people have impated his ability to access his right to FAPE in that they refused to accomodate his disability and worsened his problems. He has become increasingly more violent and as he ages, also stronger. He picks up attitudes from others in the classroom, so he picks up the teacher who is frustrated with the disurptive student and he becomes a bully to that child as well. He picks up on the disruptive kids behaviors and he also does them and goes beyond on them. As time has moved on things got worse. My son does not belong in public shcool, not at this moment in time and at this time, maybe nt ever as he is so far behind and his deficits are so severe in some areas necessary for school setting and learning that he needs intensive therapy to overocme the lack of brain functionign that we did not realize until recently he has. Oddly, therapist and shrinks have not been able to address or find any emotional disturbance, he simply is too confounded by his environment, dooes not have the right supports and they are costly to implement and uninsurable to boot. (BTW, said child is also noted for his excellent manners, his willingness to help those in need, his love for animals, and people constantly comment what a sweet good kid he is...he just has this disability that gets in the way time to time that stymies all of us on his support team)

That said, because of the costs of a residential treatment facility and the lack of insurance to cover even a fraction of the costs (upward of a grand a day!) there are limited options. Law requires he be in school (I know I can't teach him!). So what to do with this child? Who will pay for this, I do not earn a grand a day, and if I did I would gladly live in a box so my son could access care.

The largest mental health provider in the US today is the corrections system. This is because back in the 70s some touchy feely do gooders thought that instead of addressing widespread abuses occuring in places that housed children and adults iwth mental health and MRDD issues that precluded them being functional in society that they wuld liberate these folks. Busloads were taken from the "funny farms' and MRDD institutions and the people given a few dollars maybe a caseworker and said hay, you are free from abuse and now go and live happy. Unfortuantely the communities were woefully unprepared for this, and the people became regulars at the emrgency rooms because they did not know what to do, and there was nobody helping them with all those life skills they did not learn while inside.

The courts got  a lot of them and incarcerated more than a few and now these folks ar being taken care of and getting those mental health issues addressed in an institution designed to penalize instead of a place they called home that was treating their illnesses. In cxase anyone rea\ds this and thinks I exaggerate, ask long time paramedics and cops, they were there and they became a part of this impromptu meet and greet.

Six month wait lists for a pediatric psyciatrist is the norm in many area, developmental specialists are even worse. That is if you can find one in your community at all. I live in a large metropolitan area, and would think that I would find these folks easily-wrong!

So, what do we do with them? We turn to the schools and their unfundd mandates and they in turn ar turnign to the corrections system when behavior plans go awry (if they are in place and followed at all even.)  

Until we, as a society, figure out the answer to that question, these kids will be in school. I would sleep much esier at night if my child were in a residential treatment facililty getting therapy that is much needed to train him to compensate with other areas in the brain. Likely we missed that window of opportunity because it is easier when they are younger, but some of the pieces we did not know at the time we  were planning. I empathize with the schools, for I understand the horrible position they are in. But until other suitable  options are  back in place (the pendulum is turnign and it will take time and money to get that infrastructure in place) there is little that anyone can do except pray.

My opinion is that schools should not have to take these kids, that there should be more appropriate options out there. The reality is that they are too costly and too far and few between. Until things change in the mental healthsystem we are 'stuck". I don't like it either.

Write your representative at both state and national level and ask them to make this a priority. For some reason there are more an dmore of these kids showing up. Community programs can go only so far, and the schools cannot do it all.

Incidentally, I have begged agencies to help my son out as it is beyond my ability, they are less than enamored of my request to have him placed for treatment. In the meantime he is a threat to the safetyof my other two children, myself, the group home staff that are working with him and the day treatment school staff that he attends. I do not see how this will do anything but set the stage for him to be forever lost ina system that penalizes and will teach him far more antisocial behaviors.