Substitute parents?

Question

So I haven't been "around" a whole lot for awhile, but I've been browsing the questions on occasion,

I was shocked to see new terminology discussed that appears designed to be overly PC to the firstparents, without regard to others (APs and PAPs)

the term I'm referring to is "substitute parent"

My question is, how do you all feel about that term being used for PAPs/APs??

Here's my opinion, if I may

I think it's very disrespectful of the PAPs and APs.. I get the whole "adoptee has TWO sets of parents" thing, that's fine.. but the APs ARE parents.. they are not "fake parents" (as the term "real mother" implies) they are not a "substitute" like a substitute teacher who comes and goes from a child's life.. they ARE the mother.. not the ONLY mother, maybe.. but they ARE the child's mother..

To imply anything else is insulting as far as I'm concerned

But really I'm not trying to rant here.. I want to know what others think about these terms..

Answer 1

Personally, I'm not offended because I think I understand the intention meant behind it.  It's not my favorite terminology, however, I sincerely appreciate the spirit behind it.



I don't think anyone would be so insensitive as to actually say to a child, "I'm your substitute mom".  It's more a description than an actual title.

I love GR, and I so appreciate the love and effort she gives to being respectful to adoptees and the institute of adoption and foster care.  If only there were more like her.

ETA:  I seriously don't think that anyone is going around introducing themselves as a "substitute mom".  In the same way I would never introduce my parents my "adoptive" parents to someone IRL, I believe that "substitute mom" is a description used for the purpose of clarity in this and similar forums.

Answer 2

Um didnt I just answer this Question on another one ????

Here I will re Write what I wrote there

Why is Natural Mother derogatory to Adoptive Mothers ?

Do you know in the 60's etc they would call the Woman relinquishing the child Mother and call the people who were gaining the child Adoptive Mother and Adoptive Father and NOT Parents

Did you know that ?

Its only of the past decade or two that its reversed and all this other c**p has come up like Gotcha days, And Gotcha Parties , ad *Adoption is the New Pregnant* Tshirts and Cards for adoptive parents etc etc,,,

Why do you think that is ?? MULTI MILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS

Some people have seen $$$$$$ in the adoptive industry and tapped into and what has it done ? Nothing except create more havoc and great divides between the person who gave birth to the child and relinquished the child and the person who adopted the child and raised the child

There is no respect.

There is to my knowledge only the one person here who has already been mentioned above that uses that term to describe herself. SO posing this question to her is in poor taste, she is a lovely and kind person and generous with her words on here.

Sorry but you went after the wrong person...I dont think anyone would have a bad word to say about her

ETA I just did a Search on here for the words substitute Parent and wow the only posts that came up are this one and Krustys I put the link in the souce box..........

Answer 3

why respect pap's who feel we shouldn't feel anything towards are first families. if you want respect begin to dish it out.

Answer 4

As an adoptee, I find the term offensive and rude - and I also find it interesting and ironic that the very people who yell the loudest about "birth mom" being uncaring and offensive are the first to jump in and explain how substitute parent is great. If my parents had referred to themselves as substitute anything, I would have grown up with a complex a mile long. Thank goodness they were bigger and better parents than that, and considered my needs paramount.

Answer 5

Adoptive parents are substitute parents.   It's honest terminology, something sadly lacking in the adoption arena.

People don't see the big deal about the offensiveness of terminology used by the adoption industry but woe betide anyone who steps out of line and uses really honest adoption language

I think the person who uses this term the most here is a potential adopter and I admire her honesty.  She will make a fantastic adoptive parent :) unlike some, more insecure types who want everything their way.

Answer 6

thank you.  When people say something like real parents, I simply say we are the real parents

Answer 7

Hi Shelly,

"Substitute" does not mean the same thing as "temporary."  It means anything that takes the place of another.  

I know the person to whom you are referring, & I believe she is going to make one of the best adoptive parents possible.  She really understands adoptees.  Any adoptee would be extremely lucky to be adopted by her.  Thanks for asking our opinion.  

julie j

reunited adopte

Answer 8

I don't get it. I think it is disrespectful, and am bothered by it.

A substitute is someone who replaces someone else.  I'm not "replacing" anyone. I'm not a replacement for the woman who gives birth to my child - I think the word "substitute" demeans EVERYBODY involved, ALL of the mothers, and the adoptee.

In the previous question about the "B" word - there were a handful of people who said "I don't get it" and some people who said "Oh, okay, I finally get it. I'll stop using it."

But then a word comes up that bothers APs/PAPs, and we're not supposed to be offended or feel insulted? We just have to talk about the fact that it's honest.  I still contend that using "birth" is accurate - and saying that a woman gave birth to a child is not demeaning, it's the most important thing - they gave the child life. BUT - it's hurtful to some, so I've stopped using it, and try to get others I know to stop using it. I don't think "substitute" is accurate or honest. So, now it's okay to call me the woman who is replacing the first mom? I don't want to replace her. I want her to still be there, in my child's life, part of them. I'll never replace her - nothing I do could ever, ever do that. I'm not filling some temporary position. I'm in this for the rest of my life - whatever that means.

I will be the first to agree that adoption agencies have tried to give us a whole new vocabulary to make adoptive parents feel better about adoption. It's hard to break out of that once you "learn" how to speak it, and I struggle DAILY to not only educate myself, but educate people IRL. But I'm not going to start calling myself a substitute mother.  Heck, for the purpose of clarification on here, I'll even refer to me as the adoptive mother and the first mother as the mother - but I'm not going to insult both of us by referring to myself as her replacement.

ETA: Also, recognizing that the person you are referring to is probably more sensitive to the needs of her future children than any other PAPs I know. She'll be a great mom - I just don't agree with this terminology.

Answer 9

I have to say I agree with you.  I answered a question like this maybe a week or so about but I find it ironic that it is wrong to use birth mom, first mom, biological mom, etc but I can be referred to as the adopted parents, substitue, etc.

The truth is I am my sons mother, mommy, mom.  My husband are I are his parents not the two people who conceived him.  His birth mother was his birth mother but never his parent.  She lost her son due to neglect, drugs, abuse.  So tell me what kind of mother is that?

I know there are adoptees on here who did not have a perfect life and feel lost and confused.  But there are also children that live with their birth parents who also did not have a perfect life and who feel lost and confused.  I feel like expecially in Y/A that since they had a bad time they expect that everyone else should.  Many will find their birth mother and believe that they were taken, or forced to be given up for adoption.  I do not know if any of them ever thought that maybe their birth mother is sad or sorry that they gave up their child so they make up a story to feel better.  And thus in away start internals issues towards the parents.

Answer 10

I have two kids living with me right now who were taken away from their parent.  In this case "substitute" fits because the parent is trying to "fix" his life and get them back.  Most likely, I will be a temporary parent-figure.   I am a substitute for now,  as we are all working towards getting this family back together.

As a person adopted at birth I find it offensive.  My parents weren't filling in for anyone, they were the only ones I ever had.  I don't think it would be fair to a child to use this term in the case of a permanent adoption.  It is confusing, and just not accurate.

ETA- ok, let me clarify.  I had other parents obviously, but I was given to someone else to raise.  I was not on loan. The parents who raised me will always be my "real" parents.  If I ever meet my bio parents, which I hope to, I'm happy to make room for them in my life. But they would never replace my "real" parents-the one's who raised me.

Answer 11

As an adoptee, I find this term very offensive. My (adoptive) parents were not any kind of "substitute" - they are my parents, plain and simple.  I think we can honor the birth/bio/first/natural parents without demeaning the adoptive parents.

Answer 12

I do not like it for MYSELF, however if another PAP chooses to use it for herself, then more power to her.  

It's just like when I refer to our adoption as our "miracle".  I do not expect everyone to agree with that or like it, but for us and our son, it was a miracle.  We have the right to use that terminology for our own situation.  Those who refer to themselves as first parent, natural parent, substitute parent, have the right to use that term to refer to themselves.  It's just like any conversation.  If I am talking to someone who finds my words offensive in real life, I change my words to not offend that person unless we are having a debate.  It's human kindness and respect.  The same should hold true here on Y!A.

Answer 13

If substitute mom is acceptable because it is honest, than so is birthmom.

The birthmom gave birth....the subsitute mom is in her place.

This is the problem with terms....they minimize people and what they really are to you.

Let me say that one person I know who uses it is speaking of herself and has never been intentionally mean to anyone on this board and I've read a lot of her stuff.

The thing with a substitute teacher is they are there one day and gone the next....you don't always have the same one...the whole day is off because she doesn't know how the class runs.

A mother is a heck of a lot more important than a teacher.

The term substitute implies: fake, temporary and not as good as the original and in many cases this is not true.  In foster care/special needs the kids have had enough subs in their lives.

People can call themselves whatever they want....you can call yourself one eyed, flying purple people eater....I don't care....

And there is no lie in forever families for many many kids.  I have seen generations of children return to the lap of their foster moms who adopted them.  That is their mother and they'd defy you to say otherwise.

Just as I know many children who are very resentful.

Everyone is different, where the trouble comes in is where people make these sweeping statements and insist that they apply to everyone.......

I don't want to call anyone out, but just because it was your reality does not make it so of everyone.

Answer 14

I never saw that one before.  Let me try it out.

"Hi! I'm so glad to meet you!  I'm D's substitute mom."

Wouldn't people think I was just filling in for the day?  :)

I guess for use on a forum, it's fine. It gets the meaning across of whomever came up with it.  (Or is this something that's been around for awhile & I never saw it before? I've seen second mom, adoptive mom, but not substitute mom.)

Answer 15

Personally, I don't like it.  I think it's fine to be sensitive, but I find it devaluing to the importance of a permanence and "real" adoptive family.  

I know there are a few people who like the term and that's their choice.  But I won't be using it to describe me or my family.

Answer 16

Children don't get permanency.  No one does.  "Forever" parent is the most misleading term I can imagine.

"No one in the world ever gets what they want and that is beautiful

Everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful."

Everybody dies.  No parent is a "forever" parent.  Permanency is an illusion.  

I think, if you're going to get upset by terminology, you have to acknowledge that words are important.  If you are offended by this term, and you want people to respect you, you have to be willing to respect others who point out they are upset by other terms.  (I've seen a lot of people get upset about this particular term who complain that everyone else is oversensitive about other terms.)

Me, personally?  I don't like this term.  Anymore than I like the the "b" phrase.  I find them both offensive.

ETA:  Nothing is forever.  If you like to live a fantasy, I won't stop you.  But I find the implication offensive.  Will you stop?  I'm just wondering if you are willing to be consistent here.  If you are going to argue about the phrase, then I have to wonder why anyone ought to take your feelings into account, if you aren't willing to take others' feelings into account?

Answer 17

No, you don't get it. you are not adopted. Please don't pretend to know how we feel, or what termology we use. most cases it is not meant to be insulting. People are just trying to be nice i don't think they mean it any other way. I really don't think this compares to what some AP's making a blanket statement that all biological parents are horrible people and that was why we were adopted out.

Answer 18

OMG!  I've seen that term "substitute parent" and it disgusts me.  The people who use that term are ignorant.  

I've seen someone use it and they're a prospective adoptive parent.  I would never let any onw adopt who only thinks they are a substitute parent.  (What a way out for someone who doesn't want to take responsibility for their children.  "Don't blame me, I'm only the substitute.")

Answer 19

I really do not like the term.  I just like mother, without any precursers to how I became mother.

When I was a foster parent, that in fact was the role, to subsitute for the parent while they worked on their issue.  As an adoptive mother, I am the legal mother of said child, and not a "subsitute".

I agree, if we need to have sensitivity about non-adoptive parent terms, we should also get the same sensitivity.

Answer 20

The person you're referring to can call it what she wants. Her situation is very different from mine. I however am an adoptive mother and the parent that raises the child. The nmother is her mother. Gave birth to her. Visits her. Loves her. We have an open adoption but the nmom does not actually parent my child. I do. So I am not a substitute parent. I am the parent. I don't think my child would consider me a substitute either.

ETA: I hardly consider the natural father a parent at all. He's the nfather and that's it. Parent and mother/father have completely different meanings.

Answer 21

I have only seen the term used by someone who was referring to them-self. If that is how she is comfortable identifying herself, then so be it. I would be offended if someone refereed to me as the substitute parent, but that is not the case.

I am my husband's second wife, but in no way am I a substitute for his first wife. Just like I am not a substitute Mom to our son.

I think alot of terms are used on Y/A to identify who is who in the child's life that would never be used in real life. When I refer to my children as adopted & bio, I am only doing it here to clarify, but in real life they are just my children.

Answer 22

I have defined the "process" of having a child from foster care placed as providing a child with "substitue" parents but, with my adopted children I call myself their "Growing Up Mommy" if we are specifically talking about their adoption and as their Mom if we are not directly discussing their adoption status....

I like the terms "Growing Up Parents" much better than "Forever" parents because I could go out in my car today and not return--or be struck by lightning and I would hate my kids to lose what they believed was Forever again at such young ages.....

*

Answer 23

I think whats wrong here is the illusion that the industry has painted to prospective adoptive parents.

If parent A and B can't be there for the child, and they end up surrendering him/her to adoption, then substitute / replacement parents will be needed to fullfill the parental role in the childs life. They would be found through adoption.

That doesn't mean they're NOT mom and dad, that doesn't mean they're not going to be there for their entire lifetime, but it DOES mean they weren't the first parents chosen for that child. It DOES mean that they are substitutes from the first ones the child was born too.

If your regular teacher suddenly becomes absent and can't teach who comes in her place? A SUBSTITUTE. A substitute is someone who replaces the other. That is exactly what adoptive parents are doing. They are replacing the first parents.

I see this as honest terminology. Does that mean that I call my adoptive parents my substitute parents? no. I don't. I call them my parents, but that doesn't negate the fact that they replaced my other ones for a great deal of my life and legally on all of my records.

ETA: Shelly,I invite you to my reply to Kristys question, essentially its the same reply I'd like to say to you in a round about way, for this question. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

ETA:

I don't use the term substitute parent here, I've maybe used it 1-2 times and I've been posting here for months. I also rarely make broad sweeping terms across the board.