Suggestions for reschooling a former rope horse?

Question

We just got in a 9 yr old Palomino gelding from Colorado.

His background was a ranch/rope horse and when asked to halt, he practically sits down on his butt and backs up really fast.

Suggestions on how to train him out of this? My normal training methods have not made much of an impression, but honestly I don't know much about roping horses.

Thanks for any help!

Answer 1

What are your training methods?

I don't know about roping horses but I know when retraining you just make them do the opposite of what they want to do. So when he starts backing up kick him forward then ask him to halt again. Just keep doing this over and over until he figures out halt means stop, not reverse. This will be a VERY long lesson the first time you do it, but if you are consistent about it he should learn fairly quickly. Don't work on backing up until after he's learned that halt means stop, otherwise you'll confuse him.

I am very glad that you aren't putting him into a severe bit and punishing him for doing what he was trained to do!

Answer 2

Wish I had that "problem"...my horse is in training ($550/mo) to learn how to do this for reining.

Answer 3

Man!  I know people that would pay for that horse!!

Maybe slowing him down...back to the walks and trots and asking him to whoa.  And if he starts to back, use your legs to impel him back forward.  Maybe adding your 'forward' cue of clicking or kissing or whatever you do.  And at the slow gait, use the reins if that's what you are doing for the whoa...then release them immediately, so there is no 'cue' there.  May confuse the poor guy the first few times.

I would be hoping the mixed cues of stop and go would cause him to just stop and stand.  If he even hesitated in his confusion...I would make a big deal out of it.

I would also introduce the 'easy' word for getting him to slow down without hitting the brakes.  If he was trained and worked for ranching and roping...this 'behavior' of stopping and backing is going to be really ingrained in his mind.  

If I got him to stopping and standing still at the lower gaits, I would still be aware that his 'training' may override yours at a lope or a gallop.

My old girl was raised the same way.  Now she's just a trail horse.  And has been for 4 years.  But if we lope or gallop...I have to use the 'easy' word to slow her down.  If I don't...she still stops hard and fast.  I don't need that stop anymore and don't ask for it...but she still does it if I don't ask for 'easy' first.

**Edit...ha, she has almost unseated me several times with that stop!  Especially when she has been stopping like a 'normal' horse for awhile...and I get too comfortable and forget to be aware of the stop that she was originally trained to do.  Nothing like ending up with a saddle horn in your gut and clutching neck and mane...to remind the rider that this was a working cow horse at one time...

Bless his poor confused self!!  Guess I should add that I would try these suggestions out on a trail or a different area other than the arena...like others suggested.  Or dinking around the pasture.  He is probably soooooo wondering where the cows are!!  Bless his heart...sounds like an awesome boy though.

***EDIt...I bow to the babbling edits of Blue Sage...*laughing*...come'on Blue, there's gotta be something you forgot!!!

ooooo I saw that Blue!!!

Answer 4

why would you want train him out of this?!?!?!?!

i would die for that horse!!!!

but i guess if you really want to train him out of it when you hit the brakes dont pull back with so much pressure jus lil gentle pressure

and talk to him and say whoa in a calm voice im sure you'll do fine

if one of the reasons you want to train him out of this is becuase your always flyin forword afraid you'll topple over his head

all i can say is heels down! haha i have semi taught my horse to just plant it when he stops and i tell ya heels down helps!

Answer 5

Hello,

Sounds like a good horse to me...  He is trained as a heel or calf horse and was taught to put tension on the rope by backing up.  THIS is to help his rider, so he is being a good boy.

I would quit riding/running him in the arena, and take him out on the trail, he needs to figure out he is needed for a different kind of work now.  He has been trained to do this in an arena so if you work with him a bit out of the arena in a more relaxed atmosphere he may figure out you don't do that sort of work.

He association to arenas is roping and roping training....

EDIT<><><><

If all else fails and you want to place him in a roping environment let us know!   Sounds like he is WELL trained in that department....

Answer 6

Try just saying whoa without the bit.  Some of those ropers were trained to just whoa on verbal command.  The bit was only used for serious work ei slam on the breaks.

Answer 7

I know nothing about how to do this, but I would think that if he is still going to be working around cattle it would be near impossible to school him out of everything he's been doing.  Don't they develop almost instinctual relationships with the cattle, where they're reading them and responding as they keep the rope taught?  Like I said, I don't have a clue, but I thought I'd heard that.

Answer 8

hummm....

Well, sorry to sound witchy or anything, but I think the horse IS a rope horse and nothing "former" about it.

Judging from his name, he is probably Leo bred and has lots of cow. It sounds like someone invested a lot of time and training into him.

If I recall, aren't you a driving person?

I am anticipating many thumbs down for what I am going to say next, so please correct me if I am wrong, but...

Are you intending to try to turn him into a cart horse?

Because I think that would be a sin.

I drive too, but quite honestly, If that were my horse, and if I were you...

I would probably take it upon myself to learn to rope.

He sounds like a good one...

EDIT to BB & BSB ~ You guys are cracking me up. Good advice from both of you.

Answer 9

Sounds like he was a calf roping horse from the description of what he is doing.  As for retraining, sorry I can't help you.  We have team roping horses & they are very different.

When I was younger, when dad & grandad took in new horses, some where turned out for 6 months to a year, then brought them in & retrained for whatever grandad & dad wanted them for.  Seemed to work for them quite well.

By the way, he is not checking for a tie down.  Calf roping horses start from a dead stop & go into a dead run.  When the calf is caught it is the horse's job to jerk the calf off of it's feet, giving the rider time to get down the rope & get a hold of the calf. They stop hard & fast which drive the butt into the dirt & brings the front end up.  Then to keep the rope tight, the horse backs up.  Some calf horses start to over work & back up quickly dragging the calf & making it harder on the cowboy.

May have also been the reason they got rid of him.  If you watch a calf roping horse in action, you will see exactly why your horse does what he does.

PLEASE OH PLEASE tell me 1cross is incorrect!  You are NOT going to ruin a Leo bred calf horse by turning it into a cart horse?

That would be sooooo wrong on soooo many levels.

**EDIT**

Thank You for clearing that up.

I think your best bet would to keep him off of cattle for a while.  Don't do any training at this point.  Give him a chance to get use to his new surroundings.  Casual riding only.

He is Leo bred, so as 1cross said, cow in in his blood & his training is etched deeply into his mind, epsecially if he is over the age of 7.  

Anyway, keep him off cattle for 6 months to a year, casual riding only & then start him slow.  Take him to the team penning practices & have him stand & watch.  Do not participate at first.  See what kind of reaction you get from him.  Then start him SLOWLY getting into the arena during practices & let him simply follow the cattle at a walk or trot.  Keep a deep seat incase his cow blood start boiling.  It will take some time to bring him down from his roping training, but I believe that if he is not pushed & kept off of cattle for as I said, 6 months to a year then SLOWLY reintroduced to them in a different manner, he should come around.

Oh, as for the lunge work, it may not be a good idea at this point.  Calf ropers use what is called a jerk line.  When the roper dismounts & starts down the rope, this line is attached to the horses bridle & looped in the rider's belt, when the roper reaches the end, it gives the horse a reminder jerk to get him stopped & backing just enough to keep the rope tight.  I would imagine that the lunge line is the same type of thing in his mind.  So, confused is a VERY good bet.

Also, remember that calf roping is on the ground in front of the horse.  So, you will need to probably work on approaching from the front to keep him from backing up.  If you will notice, even professional cowboys sometimes have to walk back up to their horses from an angle to remount & wait for the judge to be sure the calf stays tied.  Many have to keep talking to their horses to get them to stop long enough for the rider to get close enough to mount.  As I said, we have team roping horses & they are not nearly as intense as the calf horses I have been around.  It may have been a better thing to find out what type of roping the horse was trained for before the purchase, but hind sight huh???

I do wish you luck with this though.

Oh, one more thing, ~Sorry~

Keep your weight in the middle.  Calf ropers leave the saddle to the right when calf roping, so a shift or more weight in the right stirrup could also send the horse into a sudden stop also.  Just a heads up!!!

OOOPPSSS!! I thought 1 cross said it anyway!!!

**EDIT**

Yep!  horses with cow  can be a blessing, but if you are not use to it, it can also be a curse.  We have always had horses with a lot of cow.  Leo bred horses are great though, LEO was an awesome horse.  I wish you luck & keep us up dated on the progress would you?

**EDIT**

Also, VERY LIGHT HANDS would be best.  Keep them low & try to keep your feet out of him & your legs loose.  I know that probably sounds stupid, but rope horses are......sat on, you know what I mean?

Cowboys must be good riders of course, but they don't over ride their horses, they.....I don't know how to explain it really.  They keep a gentle, relaxed position......AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!  Anyway, I'll shut up now!!!!

**EDIT**

There is something I forgot.....

I forgot to blow a raspberry at Black Bunny!!!!  So....Thhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!