Teen shot dead with fake gun?

Question

july 24th 2008.thursday night in nashville,tn. a young teen,age 18, was gunned down by police. He was attempting robbery of a pizza hut guy, wit a fake gun.(a air gun). police shot 3 times, and killed the teen by the time he got to the hospital. i feel police should shoot once in the leg or other non-killing places. just incase a situation like this one occurs. he was fresh out of highschool, about to go to college. A very sweet boy, just trying to get by in todays world. yes what he tryed to do is wrong, but he wasnt going to hurt anyone. if he was a real criminal he wouldve had a real gun, i know he could get one. he had no intent in hurting the pizza guy(which was really a undercover cop). the cop simpliy acted quick when he saw him coming toward him with what he thought was a gun. please sign your name, on this online petition and help change the shoot to kill rule, when there is suspected weapon. because it isnt always right, and for that, a young teen is dead.

Answer 1

I don't know the particulars of the story.  If the teen took the gun turned around and aimed at the police, they were just defending themselves.  They don't know if the gun has bullets or not.  However, if the police didn't do their best to disarm the teen before shooting (in order words, tell the teen to drop the gun or they will shoot), than they were at fault.  Its not a gray area here.

Answer 2

1.  Any person perceived as having the ability to shoot in an instant, is rightfully perceived as possessing lethal force.

2. A single well-placed (or poorly placed) gunshot wound can kill. This works for and against the police. Even a leg wound can kill. There is no 'semi-lethal' rule when it comes to firing a gun at a person.

3. When facing a target with the (perceived) ability to shoot back, you MUST immediately disable him to ensure that they can no longer return fire. We don't shoot with our legs do we? We CANNOT, therefore stop at just shooting to 'disable' in a leg.

4. Any unidentified person brandishing a firearm (real or real-like) in a hostile situation, must accept the fact that they CAN lawfully be shot in split-second decision.

5. Even a 10 year-old walking with a real-looking gun and making threats would have this rule applied to him. If time allows the officer to use his discretion, he does so at risk of losing his life if he is wrong. NO LAW CAN FORCE HIM TO DO THIS. Its his personal decision under real-time pressure.  

6. Your friend is lucky he even made it into an ambulance. That's the reality of the situation.

Your petition really needs to make more youths aware of these facts. Robbing the pizza man with a fake gun is not a 'prank'. Its not funny.

Answer 3

there is no actual shoot too kill "rule" but at one point I felt the same way as you do about this type of situation so I asked my hubby (who is a policeman) why not just shoot them in the knee or something?  his answer was pretty simple - if that person does not have bad intentions they would not be doing anything illegal and especially acting as though they have a weapon (whether it's real or fake) you must understand that cops are in dangerous situations every day and most of those can involve a weapon against them - so they can return home to their families at night they have to go to what may seem to be extreme measures to civilians.  you must admit law enforcement is trying - they now have mace and tazors as a first resort -

that young man was a real criminal no matter how sweet he was,he knew the risks of what he did and unfortunately the worse happened.

Answer 4

If he was a sweet boy, what's he doing with a gun, whether if fake or not, and using it with such a motive? Having lived among people of different ethnic + linguistic groups you should know that my opinion does NOT take race or age into account. A criminal is a criminal, whether if a known one or what you seem to consider a petty act.

Answer 5

He was stupid.  While I feel sorry for him, there is no reason a police officer should put his/her life at risk because of this.  He had it coming.

Answer 6

You have a weird idea of what sweet and not hurting anyone is if you think someone who robs a Pizza Hut or a pizza guy meets the criteria of "good and sweet." Sorry, if your friend has a gun, and starts charging a cop with it, he got what he deserved. Cops have to make split-second decisions. They don't have time to carefully look and see if 1: It is a real or fake fun? 2: Are there bullets in it? And how do you know the cop didn't tell him to put the gun down? You HAVE to shoot first and ask questions later in order to survive.

Obviously, your friend went with the intention of armed robbery, and therefore, wanted the gun to LOOK REAL. He did a good enough job of it to end up getting himself killed by a cop.

You're gonna hate me for saying this, but this cop is a hero!!!

Answer 7

No doubt it is very sad when someone dies.  Especially when its a child and hasn't had a chance to truly live.  Police Officers have a very hard job.  I can tell you don't have a criminal mind.  For your sake that’s good.  For police officers like myself it makes our job very difficult to explain and make others understand the dangers we face.  Did you know in my area criminals paint their guns to make them look like water guns but they are real?  Did you know there is a gun manufacturer that makes guns multicolor to make it look like a toy but shoots 45 caliber bullets?

I have a family and I make it a point to come home to them every night.  I understood the dangers going into this job before I took it.  I've seen 14 year olds already have murder rap sheets so age really doesnt have anything to do with it.  Real or fake, if you point a gun at a police officer he/she has the right to protect themselves.  Thankfully law makers understand this.  

I have a scenario for you.  Say your house was burglarized while you were sleeping by an 18 year old.  During the break in you wake up and startle the intruder.  You have enough time to make it to the phone and call 911. Of course they come lights and sirens as fast as possible but in between that time the intruder makes it to your childs room and puts a gun to his/her head.  As the first officer arrives the burglar walks out the front door with your child.  The officer can see the barrel of the gun pointed at the child but it looks fake.  In fact it looks like a toy.  The officer takes aim and has a clear shot that would end the threat immediately but he decides to hold his shot because the gun doesn’t look real.  Seconds later as other officers arrive the burglar becomes irritated and demands safe passage.  Other officers see the gun and can tell it looks like its made out of plastic. Other officers also have clear shots but do not believe the threat is real so they decide not to shoot.  As the stand off drags on the offender becomes agitated. His requests are not granted fast enough he yells. The burglar decides to pull the trigger killing your child instantly.  Officers then react by shooting the suspect dead.

Since you believe officers have the ability to confirm a gun is fake from a distance and feel officers can jeopardize their lives then I’m sure if your loved ones life is on the line you’d agree your childs life is worth the gamble.

Answer 8

Maybe he should flap his wings.

maybe.

Tennis T.

Answer 9

i am truly sorry for the loss of your friend. can you please provide a link to the petition.

Answer 10

You are asking the police to visualize the fake gun then look it up in the toys-r-us Christmas catalog then ask one of his supervisors to recomend the best solution for what to do all in a split second.   Cops can't do things like that - sounds like the killing was justified.

Answer 11

its crazy how the world works these days.well @ least this officer's  .nothin justifys wat he did yes I know officers have to protect them selfs but this officer had back up with him all around the area so if the back up didn't feel the need to step in why would this officer draw and fire his weapon and shoot the boy THREE times??? is it because the teen said something to him?? or was in he trying to get what he thought in his mind a criminal off the streets??Doubt it because how the chief was explaining the situation the teen didn't get a chance to ask for anything.the police saw him comin up to the car and he just started shooting at the teen.Now you tell me if  he was right for doin that and as far as the policeman trying to get a criminal off the streets for someone to be a criminal they have to comment a crime. this teen was not linked to the other robberies and as you know he didn't get the chance to go through with pizza hut  it seems like to me that this officer wanted to kill. now don't get me wrong im all for policemen(my grandfather is a retired sheriff)but the guy could of shot once and arrested him.this is not goin to stop here justice will be made for what happened. wat the teen did was wrong and out of character but I feel that this happened to him so that in that town robbing the delivery people will stop and that policemen will stop jumping to conclusion.              For the people who made comments on how this teen is not sweet or a good person you should say those things to yourself because im quite sure others think  that you are sweet and a good person  but look how you are typing about someone you didn't even know and a situation that happen that you didn't even researched before you said those mean and harsh things.     R.I.P. Ty

Answer 12

Im glad they shot him. If I was eating there and he pulled this stunt I would want someone to drop him too.

Answer 13

Yeah a cop looks alot like a pizza hut employee but it is all about officer safety if they shoot him in the leg it will bring him down but he can still shoot back they had just cause and what was he doing robbing a store in the first place. Break the law face the consequences.  

Answer 14

no it is not right that this boy died..but you can not expect an officer to hesitate when they believe there is a weapon.  What would have happened if the weapon was real..and because they shot the boy in the leg he had time to use a weapon on an innocent person?  it is very sad that these things happen but that boy made the choice to rob with a gun (even if it was fake). It might not always be right that this happens but it would have never happened if he hadn't done what he did. Shooting to kill when there is a suspected weapon is to protect the innocent and the boy who was killed was not innocent. im sorry if that sounds harsh but the rules are there to protect the innocent and should not be changed.

Answer 15

They are taught shoot to kill.

Would it have been a better story if the kids gun was real and a cop was dead.

If the kid was not out robbing he would not have been shot. SO he got what he deserved.

Then they bring in he was black, who cares he had a gun (real or fake makes no matter)

Answer 16

if police fire their weapons, it's  shoot to kill, no exceptions. a target that is still alive is still a threat.

and being black has nothing to do with it. if you are trying to rob a goddamn PIZZA HUT, with a FAKE gun , you deserve death anyway, and as swiftly as possible.

Answer 17

A robbery is a robbery no matter if the "boy was vary sweet" or not, he had a gun, and paid the price of his actions, the officer has every right to protect himself, his fellow police officers and the public, a gun is a gun to a police officer he has no way to determine if its real, fake, water pistol, etc. he can't afford to take that chance.  Shooting is the leg is TV stuff, they are taught to aim for center mass and fire, three rounds may seem excessive to you but the officers were there and did what they felt necessary.

The boy was a felon in the commission of a robbery, he choose to do the deed and took the chance of quick wealth and lost. A shameful loss of life, an unnecessary loss of life!

Answer 18

if a kid is going to try and rob someone with a gun, albeit fake or not, he risks being shot...not to sound insensitive or cruel but if he pointed a realistic weapon at an officer than he had the right to shoot him...its sad that it happened but thats the way it is

Answer 19

police are not trained to shoot in the arm or in the leg. do you realize how difficult it would be to even make that shot? Especially if the person was on the move. If he was a good sweet kid he would have turned to robbing a guy. Im a good kid and I am real tight on money working full time and I am getting by in todays world. He used the image of a gun to pose a threat and it does not matter whether the gun was real or fake because it was used in the sense of a real gun. No matter how hard you try you will never change standard procedures. In some cases its kill or be killed when theres another guy with a gun and we cant risk procedures that are just going to end up with dead police officers.

Answer 20

The problem with a fake gun is you don't know it is fake until it is too late. The officer was correct by acting quickly. Action is always faster than reaction. If someone presents a deadly threat, you respond with deadly force.

Someone shot in the leg can still shoot back. People who are under the influence of a drug are especially dangerous, as they have a high tolerance for pain. Once again, you don't know if they are high on drugs until after the fact. What I do know is a very high percentage of robberies are drug related.

Although this situation is tragic, proper police procedure was followed.

As far as your additional details, they are not reasonable. There is no legal requirement to ask someone to drop a gun. As I mentioned earlier, action is faster than reaction. If the gun was pointed at the officer, he can, and will,shoot without warning. Your suggestion to have a height/weight/age restriction on deadly force is not practical either. The gun is the danger, not the person.

Answer 21

Noone is good enough to shoot someone in the leg or hand or arm and just sting him enough to get him to drop a gun. Most bullets do not stop when they hit a human. Many will shatter a bone and continue into the body and cause additional harm or death.

No police is taught to shoot to wound or maim. You are taught that if you need to shoot, you need to stop the person right now and if his death results from that, so be it. What you are suggesting isnt even shown in movies anymore. That type of stunt was shown in Roy Rogers and cowboy movies in the 30's to 1950's. It isnt real.

Al Capone was just a sweet young guy trying to get by in a world of the 1920's. He was commiting an armed robbery, fake gun or not. He was wrong , and may have used a real gun had he had one. Then how sweet would he be. His own stupid act caused his own death. Many criminals THINK that if they used a fake gun, they couldnt be charged with a crime. They are wrong.

Charlie Manson was just a sweet boy trying to get along in a world of the 60's.

No Policeman is required to tell someone to put a gun down and watch him run away. That could get the policeman killed. You are living in a make believe world. You have watched way too much TV and have confused it with real life.

Answer 22

ok first off. you can never tell what is a real or fake gun anymore. some people are known to put orange tips on real guns and some real guns are now known to be made in colors that make it look like its not a real gun at all. such as pink or purple. (went to a shooting range and saw someone with a pink handgun) the officer did the right thing. in that situation only thing that went through his head was kill or be killed. when you have a gun pointed at you you dont have time to aim for the leg and the police aren't trained for that. shooting a guy in the leg will make him drop yes but it wont make him drop the gun and chances are that if he doesn't drop the gun he will shoot back. it was a good shoot (according to the law) with a horrible consequence.

also a shot in the leg can be just as lethal as a shot in the heart. you have a artery in that leg that once its hit you got to hope you get it attended to fast or your dead.

Answer 23

"yes what he tryed to do is wrong, but he wasnt going to hurt anyone. if he was a real criminal he wouldve had a real gun, i know he could get one."

So, apparently, if you've got a gun (real or fake, because you can't tell until it's too late) you're not meaning any harm to anyone.. if he didn't mean harm, then why didn't he have a flower instead of the gun or something?

I guess now you're not a real criminal if you try to knock off a Pizza Hut, either.. because, really, who gets hurt from theft?

Oh.. yeah..

Answer 24

Police officers are generally no better shots than the average gun owner.  Knowing this, police department have a policy of shooting at the 'center mass'....that is the chest area.  The reason for this is that the bullet will more likely strike the target, while an attempt to shoot at an leg or arm is problematical.  A shot that goes wild could land up anywhere, even a mile or more away striking an innocent person.  Every police officer is responsible for every shot fired, and a 'miss' is a cause for a detailed investigation.  The second reason for a 'center mass' shot has to do with the weak ballistics of most police handguns.  Nine millimeters and .40 cal. weapons rarely stop a determined criminal with a single shot, particularly an arm or leg shot.  High adrenalin or certain drugs deaden pain to the point where the wounded person may not even know he's been shot...allowing him to return fire.  Again there's the problem of stray shots, this time from the criminal, not to mention the possible killing or injury to the officer.  The best thing for a criminal to do when confronted by the police is to immediately surrender....pulling a gun, real or not is a sure way to draw fire....even if the 'gun' turns out to be fake.....in the dark it's often hard to tell.

Answer 25

Wow, you are naive.

He didn't mean to hurt anyone? What about the possible psychological effects on the person he shoved the gun at? Do you realize most victims of robbery have to seek medical help for stress, anxiety, sleep disorders, etc. Most also quit their jobs.

What about the officer that shot him? You think shooting someone is easy? That officer's life will never be the same. I'm sure he will have nighmares for years.

So, why your sweet, dear college student was trying to make his life better, he ruins how many other lives in the process?

Sorry, you get no sympathy from me. And kudos to the cop for saving thousands of dollars of court time for killing that street thug.

Answer 26

Stupid people die every day. It's God's way of culling the herd.