Texas hold em rules - calling a bet?

Question

Ok, I was in a "friendly game" with some buddies last weekend. 20$ buy-in, no limit hold em.

Everyone except two players fold pre-flop. Flop comes, player 1 bets, player 2 calls. Turn comes, p1 bets and p2 calls again. River comes, p1 bets BIG... and p2 thinks about calling for a LONG time. (neither player bet enough to put either player "all in" though, but both were the top two stacks in the game at the time, and the bet was more than half the chip leader's stack)

Here's the question: after thinking for a while, the second player says (this is an exact direct quote): "I mean, I have to call now, right?" - while stacking and counting chips BEHIND his stack, but not actually moving any chips forward. After hearing this, p1 shows his cards. P2 sees he's beaten and says: "well I'm not calling NOW" and thinks he can still "fold" without putting chips in the pot.

Was this a "call" or not? What's the "rule"? Should P2 have to put in the amount of the final bet, or not? Thanks.

Answer 1

Nope, it's not an official call.  P1 exposed his cards before any action was made.  If P2 had simply announced "call" or had actually physically moved his chips into the middle, it would have been a call.

The easiest way to deal with problems like this is to designate one player as the dealer, and have players announce their actions directly to the dealer and to have the dealer ask the players to open their cards.  This way no one does anything rash.

Answer 2

ya... that sucks for P1... there was no "official" call so P2 was not obligated to pay out on the final bet.  that being said I have seen many people pull a stunt like this to catch guys who aren't paying attention or are too new to know any better.

Answer 3

No it wasn't a call.  You Can talk about calling or not calling all you want but until you actually say call or drop chips over the line into the pot, you have not called.

P1 acted prematurely, you need to have a great deal of patience to play Hold 'em.

Answer 4

bad play, the guy who showed his cards lost cause he had to wait for the bet to be in - anyway in poker you gotta pay to see my cards guy did not pay he should not have shown his hand

Answer 5

The official tournament rule is that P2 in your scenario did not make an official call. He actually asked the question "I mean I have to call, right??". This is not a declaration, it is simply a player talking the situation out. P1 shouldn't have flipped his cards over so soon.

If P2 made a statement of a "call". Or made a motion moving chips forward past his cards, then that is an official call as well, but in this instance P2 did not make an official "call" and P1 cost himself chips by flipping over his cards prematurely.

Answer 6

Player 2 posed a question ("I mean, I have to call now, right"), he did not state that he was calling, nor did he move his chips across the line.

In my opinion, player 1 showed his cards out of turn and player 2 had the option to call, fold or raise.

Answer 7

Verbal calls are binding.  It seems this is a question to get a read.  The Player who said "I have to Call, Right?"  did ask a question.  It depends on their intent as well.  Looks like their intent was to fold.

If this was a multi-way pot, this question could be construed as a call.  But when it is heads up, the player can ask a question and talk about the hand.  Had the player had said this and moved his or her chips in front of their cards, this is a call...

The player who showed their hand should have confirmed that they have been called before showing, by waiting for the chips to pass the players cards or a one word declaration "Call"  I have seen people say something like "Will you show me" and then actually muck the winner after the player showed. Their actions such as throwing the cards into the middle face down  binded them to a fold as there was intent to fold.

Visit my poker forum - pokergob.com

Hope this helps.

Answer 8

It is not a call.  When he said "I have to call, right?" he was thinking out loud.  Until he says "I call," or moves his chips into the pot he has not called.  The other guy just jumped the gun.