The Top 10 dog behaviour myths...?

Question

I found this article and would like to know if you agree or disagree with the 'myths'

http://ca.lifestyle.yahoo.com/pets/dogs/articles/e/behaviour-training/dogsincanada/61/fairy-tales/1

Do you think it depends on the breed of dog, the temperament, how the pup was raised, what the dog is being trained for (police/guard dog vs pet)

Would like your thoughts and opinions

Answer 1

I believe that the author of this article was correct in deeming the myths a bunch of nonsense.  I always treated my dog like he was the king of the house, but he always obeyed and was a loving, loyal companion.  I always let him go through doorways first, mainly because he was small and I wanted to make sure the door didn't slam on him.

I do believe that aggressive breeds can be taught to be loving, loyal pets.  But I also believe that dogs are dogs and sometimes their temper is triggered easily.  My toy poodle was very possessive of his toys and would lung and snap at your foot if you tried to push "his" things away.  The difference being that a 6 pound poodle is not going to do near the damage that a 40 lb. or larger dog would do if he gets irritated.  And the physiology of the animal has to be taken into account.  Some breeds have the jaw strength of a bear trap when they latch onto something.  I can pick my Mom's Boston up off the ground several feet when he is determined to keep hold of his rope toy and he weighs almost 30 pounds.  I guess the main thing is that you feel safe with your pet being around yourself and your family.

Answer 2

I loved it and have bookmarked it. Thanks for sharing.

It's always nice to see a similar opinion so well thought out against all that pack leader c**p. As well as my all time least favorite question of who gets to go out the door first and why.

I also loved the quote:  ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚€Âœremoving the ticker from the time bomb.” Makes perfect sense, as by punishing them, you don't remove their feelings, if anything make them more pronouced.

I'm sure that things differ among the breeds. Temperment is always key, but that comes down to nature vs. nurture.  Nurture can't erase nature but it can enhance it.

It'd be nice if more people could read and understand this article and the ideas in it.

Answer 3

I don't think a particular breed has anything to do with anything.

I find it funny however to read these myths but also know that one very well know TV personality promotes these myths as fact!  

Each breed has their quirks & strong points and weakness and to just lump all dogs into one category is just not going to cut it for me.

Of course there are better dogs for different types of situations and jobs.  That's why there are so many dog breeds.  There is no one size fits all when it comes to anything.

I enjoy read a layman's opinion about dog behavior, but for as many opinion's there are I think there not one that is totally correct for each dog in any one particular type of situation.

Answer 4

Myth 1 : I dont agree , and I dont disagree, See , Im my household , I have 4 dogs , 3 of them are ''pack'' animals the other one is a ''loner . So I cant really comment on that , I'ev always had loner dogs before , It's the first time they actually form a pack , It is a Interressting behavior

Myth 2 :  For the doorway , THEY ALWAYS exit before me , BUT I have 2 very dominant dogs , Bailey and Alaska , And they ''dominate '' each other to see which one exits first, Usually , Bailey get out first , There YES I can agree for the dominant issue regarding the doorway , But has for me , I think they are well aware that '' no sorry there NOT going to dominate me'' Altought , before reading this , I'd never noticed... Funny.,,

Myth3 : Totally disagree , The first who listens to the command gets the treat first , they are also trained not to even LOOK at the other dogs treat , So first one to listen ,first one to get the treat , Usually Shadow sits first, and he's y far the lowest in the Hierarchy in my household

Myth 4:  I agree, my dogs are food motivated , They have a great desire to please me, they know if there good they'll get a treat .

Myth 5 : Agree, It refers to #3-#4 , But I wont bribe my dogs , they get treat when were training , I've been trying Bailey out for agility , and I use treats ... Seems to go well

Myth 6 :  Agree, if my dogs are scared , I'll call them over , and then try to get them interssed in something else ,But I'm not going to Baby them , If so , They'll become scared ( or pretend ) to be , to get affection ... So I agree , I dont encourage Fear in my dogs , BUT I DONT WANT THEM TO BE AGRESSIVE !!! Dont get me wrong here...

MYth 7 : Agree, There is a difference between GROWL and Scared ,  Maggie , does not growl , never did , But my other 3 ALL THE TIME , Most often when they ear a noise that they dont recongnized or feel a presence ( animal or not) that is new to them , It is ok , I'll say to them '' What's wrong ?? Go check '' ... And them...

Myth8 : N/A  I dont know , Dont remember ever playing tug with my dogs

Myth 9 : DISAGREE , They all have chew toys ALL and you know what , I still have my furniture , Owning 3 Husky , trust me you dont wnat them to go and eat your furniture , So , YES POWER TO THE CHEWS TOYS

Myth 10 : I agree , There are some ''genetic'' behavior in EVERY BREED , AS an exemple , HOW MANY TIMES do we say '' Border collie are EXTREMELY energetic ??'' Or ''Husky are escape artiste '' These are behavior known to these breed , So , Yes I agree!!!

Thanks for that great question this morning ,made me think a bit :)

Answer 5

Jean Donaldson is well known and well respected in the dog world.

I do agree with her myth busting. She makes a lot of sense and others who have studied natural dog behavior have come to similar conclusions. Turid Rugaas is one of them (30+ years studying canine communication). I think breed of dog has less to do with their natural canine behavior (because all dogs use essentially the same canine calming signals, or at least have the potential to learn them if given proper exposure) than does what the human(s) involved in the dog's life do. Humans that use canine communication appropriately are much more successful at having dogs that in turn are good canine citizens.

EDIT: note to boss: Jean Donaldson has written many books on dog behavior and I think her understanding of canine ethology and operant conditioning far exceeds most of ours. Just MHO.

EDIT: just BTW, I'm not the one who gave a thumbs down to your answer. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion.

very late EDIT: it's too bad that so many people responding to the question misunderstand what Jean is trying to communicate (not unlike people misunderstanding what dogs are trying to communicate - ironic).

Answer 6

It certainly blows everything I used to to think true out of the water, and I bet it will do the same for the majority of the population.

I'm sorry, I should clarify, there are SOME points in there that I believed to be true, and what she has explained, has definately rung true for me.

1.  Pack animals--- my dogs, in the group of 3 of them, were NEVER dominant or submissive over the other, they cooperated, and shared.

2.  Doorways-- Never noticed any difference in behavior, my dogs go first out the doorway (always attached to a leash!)  Makes it easier to shut the door when an 80 lb dog isn't blocking the way

3.  Hierarchy-- again, never noticed the hierarchy.  Each of my dog got treats (rawhides, etc.) at the same time, to avoid fighting over them.

4.  Innate desire to please--- I do believe my dogs would do anything to please me.  The author is incorrect on this one.  If she believes it's never been tested, she's sadly mistaken, it's tested in every home, every day.  Consistently!

5.  Rewards as bribes-- I agree with this one.  You eventually need to wean them off the treat rewards.

6.  Patting the fear-- I agree with this as well.  Why would you reward a dog for being fearful (one of my dogs become aggressive when fearful)

7.  Growling-- I ALWAYS reprimand my dog while growling, or barking, unnecessarily!  (i.e., while sitting in my living room, and hears noises outside)  I would NEVER reprimand her while there was clearly a threat near (i.e., strange person trying to pet, or approach)

8. Tug o' war--- I ALWAYS play tug o' war, and I see no insubordinance with my dogs because of it.

9.  Chew toys--- On the contrary, I believe that they learn what they can AND can't chew.

10.  Genetic behavior--- You can't modify, but you can condition.

Answer 7

Very interesting article, most of it horse c**p unfortunately. Those of us who have lived and trained dogs for 30 years plus, KNOW that some of the ideas presented in this article are BS.

When you train dogs for working purposes you quickly realize the pack structure, the dominance that some dogs exhibit and the consequences that occur when you do not follow the guidelines set forth by the reality of dog behavior!

I am certain that most people here will quickly agree with it, because they also have no idea!

Great question by the way!!

Answer 8

1) Dogs are naturally pack animals with a clear social order.

There are many communities in Northern Canada with packs of feral dogs - these animals *do* act as a pack, by hunting, etc.  AS for the Pariah (a type of scent hound, right?), well, I can see that different dog breeds might have a different level of pack "tightness", for lack of a better term.  I do believe dogs are pack animals though, and if a group of them are left alone, they will indeed form a pack with a definite structure.

2) If you let dogs exit doorways ahead of you, you’re letting them be dominant.

I believe different dogs have different levels of dominance.  If your dog is naturally submissive, letting it go out the door first isn't going to turn it into a raving beast.  However, I make my dog wait at the door - since I never want him running out of an open door for safety reasons, not dominance reasons!  

3) In multi-dog households, “support the hierarchy” by giving presumed dominant animals patting, treats, etc., first, before giving the same attention to presumed subordinate animals.

I really don't know enough to comment on this.  Though I do think there is a difference between *creating* the hierarchy you want in your dogs (by giving the dog *you* want to be higher ranking treats, etc. first) and "supporting the hierarchy".  I do know of a multi-dog household that enforced the higher ranking status of the oldest dog, who was fading in health, in part using these methods.

4) Dogs have an innate desire to please.

I think this relates to the pack drive within individual dogs.  This is something the dog is born with; it can be reinforced, but not created.

5) Rewards are bribes and thus compromise relationships.

I have never heard this one.  I do know some people do complain though that their dogs, having been trained with treats, will not do anything unless there is a treat.  I think that rewards can become bribes, if the training is wrong - i.e. a reward is for doing the correct behaviour, a bribe is to get the dog to do it in the first place.  I was told that when training with treats, after the behaviour is learned, start to randomly treat for the action, then gradually stop treating.  This I found worked well with Kip.

6) If you pat your dog when he’s afraid, you’re rewarding the fear.

Don't know enough to comment.

7) Punish dogs for growling or else they’ll become aggressive.

I think this relates to dominance.  Personally, any dog of mine would not be allowed to growl without some sort of correction from me.

8) Playing tug makes dogs aggressive.

False

9) If you give dogs chew toys, they’ll learn to chew everything.

Most definitely false!!!  Giving a dog chew toys teaches it what it *can* chew, since it will chew anyway, especially during puppy-hood

10) You can’t modify “genetic” behaviour.

Ah, the nature vs. nurture debate.  To me, it depends on the behavior.  I always say that it is hard to "train against the breed".  Take, for example, terriers and digging in the garden.  Can you eventually train a terrier not to dig?  Yes.  Is it easier to train it to discriminate about where it is okay to dig (say in a sand pit created for the dog, but not in the flower beds)?  Yes.  I also believe each dog is born with a certain level of dominance - but this can be tempered by training.  I also believe, however, that there are certain things a dog is born with that can never be trained out without destroying the dog - certain drives that are breed specific (prey drive in terriers, for example).

Answer 9

It's an interesting article.  I agree with some things she believes, and disagree with others.  In some cases, there is scientific evidence that she's not found.

1) Dogs are pack animals.  She's wrong in her statements that they are not.  In all animals there is a pecking order, including humans.  That's been studied and verified.

2) While I've constantly read that letting your dog out first will let it think it's alpha over you... Jean stated this is not true, and my experiences with my own dogs agrees with her completely.

3) In multi-dog families, she does not believe in "supporting the hierarchy".  My personal experience showed me that respecting the pack order or pecking order did stop the fighting between my male dog and the omega dog, so I think she is wrong in her assessment of this topic.

4) I do believe dogs have an innate desire to please their owners, just as our children do.  As she stated, dogs are also motivated by food, water, s*x, fear and pain.  

5) I agree with her that rewards are not bribes, since they are (supposed to be) given right after the task was done.  It's payment for a service rendered, just like your paycheck.

6) I agree that petting a dog when it's fearful won't necessarily make it more afraid.  It doesn't automatically "reward the fear".

7) Punishing dogs for growling doesn't do much good.  It punishes them for expressing their feelings.  It also warns you that you may need to watch to see if they intend to ACT on those feelings, which you will want to prevent.

8) I've often heard the comment that playing tug-of-war will make your dogs aggressive, and like Jean, I consider that to be hogwash.

9) I never heard anyone claim that allowing dogs to chew chew-toys would encourage them to "chew everything". From my own dogs I learned that each dog has a different "need to chew" and a dog with a strong need to chew will be a challenge... keeping him/her from chewing things you don't want chewed.

10) You can't modify "genetic behavior".  I think all behavior can be modified to one extent or another in most dogs and people.  

Basically I find her verbage too complex and convoluted to follow easily.  That may be why others have complained that she didn't go into more detail on each one.  

The way she puts her words together confuses the issue of what she believes are the "Top 10 Behavior Myths".  If they are the top 10, I should have heard them all and this is not the case.  I agree with some of her beliefs, but don't like the "logic" or "facts" she uses to prove her point of view.  

Some of these things do depend to some extent on breed of dog.

Breed of dog often is a strong determiner of temperament.

Experience (how the pup was raised) always affects things.  

I agree with much of what she says, but I think she's all wet when she starts with the statement that dog's are pack animals and insists that they are not.  Dogs are direct descendents of  the wolves and, while their pack behavior may not be quite as strong as that of a wolf, I believe it's been well proven that they still are pack animals.  -!-

Answer 10

I disagree with about half of it.  Some of the points are on the ball but it doesn't sound like the author has a clear understanding of canine ethology or operant conditioning.  A lot of what the author states is very much dependent on individual circumstances but she poses it as if it applies to the big picture.

Add:

I think her points would be much more valid if they were elaborated on, rather than summed up in a short paragraph.