The Verdict: Is There Such A Thing As Indy Stardom?

Question

Buckle up kids, this is going to be one of those long ones.

Okay, as many know, I have a bit of contempt towards some independent wrestlers and promotions. Sometimes, like in the case of CZW, it’s because it’s nothing but garbage wrestling trying to make a name off of another, better, promotions legacy. Sometimes it’s because a promotion takes itself too seriously, like ROH, sometimes it’s a gripe against the self-righteous fans, but more times than any I find myself griping over how some people can overrate themselves, and become overrated in the fans eyes. My initial qualm was with the legacy of the Hitman, Bret Hart, but as more and more independent names come down the pipe, I question why so much merit is put on certain superstars. Guys like Necro Butcher, Bryan Danielson, Brodie Lee, and Chris Hero hold a lot of clout in the indy wrestling circuit amongst their peers, and amongst their rabid fans as well. I’ve watched such men wrestle, and have seen nothing remarkable in most cases. For instance, someone like Chris Hero strikes me as a charismatic guy with a very awkward style that I really can’t buy into. Necro Butcher is simply a sloppy and stiff brawler who seems to be more of a liability than a talent. Brodie Lee strikes me as nothing but a blank slate to work against with a pretty good big boot, and Bryan Danielson strikes me as average at best.

The question today is are there such thing as indy marks? Do names in the independent circuit carry more prestige than their ring work can deliver? Have these men been inflated into something bigger than they’ve ever been due to their training pedigree or push from their company of origin? Or is there just an acquired taste and style that makes them more appealing to the minority of wrestling fans that are looking for an alternative? If these guys are so innovative, why haven’t they been picked up by a major promotion? Do they really choose to remain in their niche of wrestling? Or do they simply not cut the mustard when it comes to wrestling on a global level?

As always, there’s no such thing as a right or wrong answer. As you can tell, I have my sway towards one side, but no argument can be based in unbias. Whoever makes the better case, regardless to if I agree with it or not, gets the best answer.

Answer 1

Its just a case of elitism, fanboyism, and people who want to claim to be part of the "scene".   Its no different than fanboys from other forms of entertainment be it music, movies, video games, etc.  Its a classic case of the fans being so hardcore that they don't want their heroes to sellout.  The name has become so big on the indy scene the fans do not want their hero to advance to the big time if you will because the wrestler will have make a complete character change for conform to the mainstream sports entertainment style.  Its just like Metallica who was once a thrash band in the early days but when the Black album came out all of a sudden they soldout......who cares if they are the most recognizable metal band in the world outside of Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, or Iron Madien.

Yes there is some actual talent in the indy wrestling scene that deserve the respect, honor, publicity, and money but the fans are too possessive to let them succeed.   Many can and should be "world champions" in the recognizable wrestling companies but they would have to made some concessions to their style to make it there.  Some people can not accept that.

Answer 2

I'm sure that the larger promotions are keeping track of what's going on at the indy level. I think that if the larger promotions are passing them by, they might truly not have anything to offer in the greater market. Talent, as always, is vital. But, the bigger promotions are always going to look for someone who "rises above the pack".

Answer 3

There is a such thing as "Indy Stardom", but it's not that serious.

Most of the names you mentioned could go on to bigger promotions and "wrestle at the big time", but those guys typically chose to remain in the Independents, mainly because for one, a lot of them have more control over their character and wrestling style there than in bigger promotions, and two, with popularity, they get more money when working in multiple Independent promotions.

Out of the guys you mentioned, Bryan Danielson, has wrestled on a global level already, and a lot of organizations call for him to join their roster as is. Guys like Necro Butcher (who still think "hardcore is cool") will never make it anywhere major unless they get out of that mentality and exhibit wrestling skill outside using bats and light tubes. People don't praise a majority of Indy wrestlers for being "innovative", but they do praise them for showing their wrestling ability, and also showing skill beyond what they'd be able to show under contract in a company like WWE.

Answer 4

I agree, that workers like Danielson are highly overrated. I feel that wrestling can no longer be looked at in terms of "major" and "minor" promotions. Since Vince created a monopoly, there's only one major league, and if Vinnie doesn't like someones working style, or he has a personal vendetta against a worker, the said worker will never be "major".

Granted, TNA is considered a "major" these days, but it's just a glorified indy fed, I followed TNA from the early days at the Asylum, back then it was about wrestling and pride. As soon as Jarret lost the NWA title, TNA fell apart. CZW workers will never be accepted because Ultra Violence is not wrestling, it's a botch and spot fest which usually ends with a 20 dollar payoff and a 200 dollar hospital bill. Guys like Necro Butcher, Wifebeater, Nick Gage, and Nick Mondo would never cut it anywhere but CZW, because CZW is the biggest American Death Match promotion, and without legitimate talent, there's really no room anywhere else for these guys.

Back to the whole "major" talk. Imagine, if you will, a Clash of the Champions type show with WWE and ROH. Let's say the Main Event is John Cena vs. Nigel McGuinness. Nigel McGuinness isn't a huge muscular man by any sense of the word, but he's a legitimate wrestler. Now Cena, who at one time had phenomenal mic skills, is a huge guy, but has a 3 move repretoire. McGuinness could easily wrestle circles around Cena, but he doesn't look right compared to the WWE Monsters because he's a normal sized guy.

Look at CM Punk, at one point in time CM Punk was the best worker on the indy scene. Granted, his WWE tenure started rocky, but now he's the top Face. When you see CM Punk pick up Batista on his shoulders and go for the GTS, it doesn't look right because he's not jacked up. Most indy guys aren't grossly muscular, which means Vince doesn't really want to deal with them on that alone.

Another reason why indy guys are regarded highly are because they have the freedom to do what they want. WWE has a strict code on moves that are allowed to be performed. No piledrivers? No brainbusters? Imagine a guy like El Generico coming to WWE, if he's not allowed to do the Brainbustaaaaahhhhh, no one would really care for his work. Generico's matches build up to the Brainbustaaaaahhhhh, you can't give El Generico a cross body block and expect him or his fans to be impressed.

I guess what I'm building at is "major" companies are filled with jacked up generic wrestlers who basically perform the same 4 moves and have the same spots every single match. Indy guys are regarded so highly because there's a lot of creativity and most of them, and they continue to come up with innovative moves and innovative spots, instead of having a writer come to them and go "Hey, remember that match you had last week? Do that again, just change the ending so you can put X-Wrestler over". I think most indy guys are held to such high regard because the "major" companies have lost all originality and public image.

Answer 5

huh