The "the universe could not have happened by accident" argument?

Question

The universe had to be set up in one way or another, each of the different ways it could have been set up are equally unlikely. The fact that the universe has been set up this way, producing beings like ourselves, gives us no grounds for supposing that we have been anything other than lucky. If something had to exist, why not this? This is not a good argument to support the existence of a creator, yet is consistently used to "prove" the existence of God. Thinking Christians, atheists, or other religions, what are your thoughts on this?

Answer 1

If you were visiting Mars and you found a watch, would you assume that it was a random accident or that someone created the watch?  It's not that complicated.

Answer 2

If you believe that Humans are the best there is, the bee's knees, then you are bound to think that this end-product has been directed.

If you do not have this human-vanity thought process then the possibility is open that we are the mere end product of chance. And we could have been vastly different if only one stage in the sequence was minimally different.

///

Answer 3

To the nuge-OFFICI: that was perhaps a good try to answer the question, but you have contradicted yourself by saying that at this very moment "universes are being created." Would you explain me who/what is creating them?

Unfortunately, the human limitation to the existence of God has its roots in the human pride. We humans go on not realizing that we know very little about the universe, and so we reject the idea that there must be a higher being, namely God which is more powerful than we are. And contrary to us, he can make this universe, and if we the most "intelligent" animal in existence really are what we proclaim, why haven't we figure this out yet or haven't found some record of it.  

Answer 4

yes i believe in intelligent design. Something set into motion our existence.

the very idea that the universe was set up begs a creator to set it up. Humans can not create our universe therefore, something greater than us must have created mater, space, time, DNA... Humans are not capable of creating life, the miller experiment was a dud.

The universe could not have happened by accident based upon logically looking at the statistical evidence. The amount of design calls for a designer. The technique in which DNA sends information to the Gene is so complex that it is literally impossible for that to ever be accomplished by random chance.  

The real question you or your professor can not answer is--where did the universe come from? what created the universe to begin with--If you do not believe in a god you must believe in spontaneous Generation. It takes more belief to believe in spontaneous generation than A God.

Logically speaking--we have never seen anything spontaneously exist. We have however, witnessed things being created. It is more logical to believe that our universe was created rather than spontaneously generated.

God did not spontaneously generate, he always was--u need something that is greater than existence to produce existence. You need something to put fourth the beginning of all things that is outside the beginning of all things. To create the first object you yourself can not be the first object. You need something that always was and is outside of creation itself. This something is God.

Thanks,

hope this helps :)

P.S.

1. If one aspect of the universe is not eternal then the whole universe itself is not eternal.  

2. Stars are formed and then die.

3. therefore, the universe is not eternal--(can not have always existed..)

If parts of the universe begin and die--like parts of a body have a beginning and an end then logically speaking the body can die--and so just like a body dies so shall the universe. How then could the universe always have existed? Objects in the universe have a set path and so must the universe have a set path. If the universe is aging then it must have had a beginning. If the universe had a beginning then it could not have always existed.

ALSO,

Causation argument.

If God was the uncaused cause, then

THERE CAN NOT BE ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS UNCAUSED.

why?

Because God is OUTSIDE of creation. God is Holy(set apart) and not anything like his creation.

Causation may have some part with time however, it is not dependent upon time since the creator is not dependent of time. God created time. God is not dependent on his creation. God is separate and apart from his creation. God does not need time to create time. Therefore, this is the only instance in which causation is not dependent on time.

Thanks,

Answer 5

according to michio kaku,one of the most respected physicists in the world, universes are being created all the time.  

the mere creation of a universe gives no answer either way to the existence of a higher being

Answer 6

So..the universe had a mind of its own? Even if I didn't believe in God, a supernatural being is more likely than particles forming to make the foundation of life. Just my two cents. No one has to agree.

Answer 7

It is possible and likely that in this life, in this generation, we will not know our origins or the origins of the rest of the universe. That's why it's important that we continue to question and explore.

I assure you, in this lifetime, you will never understand the universe, let alone this planet. Neither will I.

Answer 8

Well it has been shown that it started in chaos and that there is still a large amount of chaos out there so it simply cannot have been intelligent design can it?

If the chaos produces a huge meteorite or comet that smashes into the Earth and wipes it out no doubt the fundies will say it was god's will but then they do seem to have a fixation about wiping out the human population!!

Answer 9

To decide whether or not creationism is real, we must first determine whether the universe is infinite or not.

Possible situation number 1: The universe has a finite amount of space. If this was true, it would give fundamentalist Christians more grounds to say that the universe is so complex it could not have happened by accident. Of course,it still COULD happen by accident, it's just a bit less likely.

Possible situation number 2: The universe has an infinite amount of space. This is a totally different situation. Because if the universe is infinite, then you can take whatever small probability there is that life happened by accident and multiply it by infinity = voila, an infinite chance that life can exist somewhere other than earth.

The mathematical equation goes like this:

x^-10000000000000000000000000 (a number too small to comprehend) * infinity = infinity

Response: Special thanks to Reilea for being intelligent: yes evolution takes millions of years not a human life time.

Answer 10

I think that raises more questions than it answers.

For example, why does something HAVE to exist?

Why did the universe HAVE to be set up, why is it here at all?

Why is there something rather than nothing?

How does something come from nothing?

How does life come from non-life?

How does intelligence and awareness come from inanimate matter?

A fundamental law of science is "ex nihilo nihil fit" – out of nothing, nothing comes.  

Athiests mock Christians for believing in "magic", yet the athiest  hypothesis of life just appearing out of nothing from non-life with no cause requires greater magic than anything found in the Bible.



Next, their argument ignores the basic laws of causality – an effect must resemble its cause.

How can an impersonal, meaningless, purposeless, amoral universe accidentally create beings who are full of personality and obsessed with meaning, purpose, and morality?

It can’t.

Further, intelligence doesn’t arise from non-intelligence, which is why even Richard Dawkins (noted atheist) and Francis Crick (co-discoverer of DNA) admit that intelligence had to engineer DNA and life on earth – they just say it was a superior alien race who seeded the earth, which of course, begs the question of who engineered that superior alien race or did they just pop out of nothing?

Answer 11

We already know that our models of reality break down at t=0 of the big bang, I don't see why causation should hold true. Besides, nothing in big bang requires something to come from nothing, and since we can't destroy matter/energy in this universe, only transform it, it seems reasonable that for all intents and purposes, matter/energy always was as far as this universe is concerned. The bonus of only assuming matter/energy is that it is self-evident. Gods are not.

Answer 12

I think it's silly when people think that the universe is made just for us, when we are only able to inhabit 0.00000000000000001% of it.

Answer 13

The origin of the universe is the result of one of two things: Chance or Design. Mathematicians state that anything with a change of less than 1 in 10 to the power of 50 (10 with 50 zeroes after it) is mathematically impossible. The chances of a singe simple protein happening by chance is 1 in 10 to the power of 110 - double what is impossible. 2,000 of those are needed to support a cell. The chances of those proteins all coming together to support a SINGLE CELL is 1 in 10 to the power of 40,000. That's 10 with 40,000 zeroes after it. We're supposed to believe that this actually happened enough times for life to be here on earth (having gone from a single cell to a fish, to an ape, to a human)? If you ask me, evolution takes more 'faith' than believing in God.

Answer 14

The only reason that people say that God didnt create the universe is because they want to live in their own reality where there is no God that will tell them how to live their life. But honestly all of things that the Bible tells us to do are beneficial. No matter what Evolution will always be a theory nobody can prove it through true science because science can only work with things that are observable and measurable

Answer 15

Humans have pattern-seeking brains.  We see something complex that we don't understand and assume that an intentional being is behind it.  This is exactly where every single religion has come from.

Answer 16

It's depressing, I don't want to think about the futility of human intelligence/existence.

LEAVE ME ALONE!

;_;

Answer 17

So... something came from nothing, the Earth is just the right distance from the sun, it has the air and food we need from the earth and the sea, water, we have senses in our body to know our world around us, we can love and enjoy one another as we choose, DNA, beauty and nature to enjoy, and on and on...

Didn't happen by chance. Too much fits together to be chance.

You are taking too much for granted.

What we have all around us shows us God, and when we invite him into our lives he lives in us in wonderful ways we could never imagine.

Answer 18

Then the question occurs: What/who created that god?

If the god does not need a beginning, why not the Universe?

It's a failed argument. The fact is is that if the Universe was different, then we wouldn't be here to discuss it now would we?

EDIT:

Mike M: The watchmaker argument? Come on. That's even worse than the "by accident" one

Answer 19

The problem is that they have no idea exactly how enormous the universe is and the mind-boggling amount of time it has taken to get here.

Have you heard the "peanut butter" argument?  Some creationists have said they have "proof" that evolution doesn't exist because we have had peanut butter for 100s of years and it has never evolved into something else.

That doesn't even make any sense, how can it be proof?  Evolution takes MILLIONS of years, not a few hundred.

Answer 20

The First Cause argument is fundamentally unsound.

1.  If the creator is an uncaused cause, then

2.  Anything can be uncaused, because anything is less complex than an infinitely complex creator; then,

3.  The universe can be uncaused.

If we apply ockhams razor it is clear that

1.  The universe is uncaused, is simpler than

2a. An infinitely complex creator is uncaused; and,

2b. The infinitely complex creator created the universe;

3.  Therefore, ockhams razor determines that an uncaused universe is more likely than an uncaused creator.

Furthermore, David Hume clearly established that the universe could be uncaused (it is plausible to consider) if there was ever a point without time because:-

1.  Causation is dependent on time

2.  When there is no time anything - including the universe - could occur

3.  Therefore, it is plauible that the universe could be uncaused.

The end result of this is that it is very unlikely that God (as described in the bible) exists at all. Furthermore, it shows why every time the first cause argument is trotted out I begin to chuckle.  

Answer 21

I don't know and I don't wanna know...but if you want to know then it's all yours, partner.

Answer 22

It would be like going into the woods and finding the statue of David there. There are no human tracks there, or any evidence that any human has been there, except the statue itself. It would be foolish to believe that the statue just got that way by natural processes like wind or rain; it's obviously designed by someone, even if we can't see the Designer. Would the statue's very existence be "proof" enough that it was designed by Someone? I think so.

Answer 23

Jensen, you're absolutely right!  If it all happened by accident, then why not turn out like... what we have now.

The counter argument is that life as we know it, especially the human brain, defies everything we have been able to observe about the universe around us.  When things are left entirely up to themselves, they decay and become less organized (rise of entropy).  Because of the astonishing complexity of the human brain (and h**l, even fruit fly brains!) many people find it hard to believe that the most complex piece of technology ever devised is something that happened entirely by accident.

Personally, I think it's perfectly possible for the universe and its inhabitants to have just fallen together by accident--it's just that it's highly unlikely.  And I mean REALLY highly unlikely!!!!  

And here's another one--if all this free mass came together to form one small, dense ball, giving rise to the big bang--then how did all the cosmic dust, gas etc. come together?  Who/what went across unmeasurably vast distances IN A UNIVERSE THAT DIDN'T EXIST YET, grab enough sub atomic particles and/or store enough energy and bring them all together in one non-existent place to allow the Big Bang to occur?

I believe strongly in science and the value of intelligent exploration of observable phenomena.  I'm also a real cynic about religion as an explanation for the existence of the universe simply because it is often presented in a way that makes it insulting to the intelligence, and also because questioning it is frowned upon.  (Don't get me wrong, in the real world questioning scientific theories is often frowned upon too--despite the fact that skepticism is crucial to the development of usefully accurate scientific theories!)

So I remain a "soft atheist"--an atheist who's willing to admit that there really is a chance, however remote, that he's wrong! ;)

GREAT question by the way--not your usual "Does my *** look fat in this pic" Internet forum question.  It's about time ;)