This is nagging me: Should expectant mothers consider the P/AP's PoV? What do you think?

Question

Shelly,

Not only did you miss the tone of my question but also the point.

I DO think anyone can (and will) answer on YA, again you missed the point of my question. I value everyone's opinin and right to state it. I just happen to think there are times to keep it to yourself.

You on the other hand clearly feel otherwise about people who disagree with your perspective! "I will complain until this stops."

And in answer to YOUR question. Yes. PAPs SHOULD hear those stories. It relates to how their future CHILD might feel! If they wish to be fully educated about adoption's possible effects on said child it is something they need to be aware of.

Answer 1

I have a difficult time with this, too.  Not long ago, an expectant mother contacted me off the board here to ask if I would consider adopting her baby (she had decided to relinquish for adoption, and because we share similar religions, she thought I might be a potential resource for her to place her baby).  She mentioned to me once that when she relinquished her first child, she had a difficult time finding PAP's that would be willing to honor an open adoption with a Pagan.

***WHA~WHA~WHAAAT????***

Excuuuuse me?  THEY wouldn't be willing to honor an open adoption with their child's mother because of HER religion???  Well then, they can just sit there and wait for the next healthy white infant to drop into their laps.  I was appalled at the audacity these people think they have the right to have.

No, the expectant mother DOES NOT need to consider the feelings and wishes of PAP's.  They are the ones who want a baby so badly...if they're not willing to compromise, they can just stay childless.  They probably should anyway, with that crappy attitude.

ETA:  I think I misunderstood your question, judging by Jennifer's response.  If you're talking about specifically questions in this forum, I have to say that all opinions are going to come out, regardless if the expectant mother wants to hear them.  I just hope she has the wherewithall to ignore the "give me your baby's", and the "you're doing such a wonderful thing because I'VE been childless for this many years, and I deserve a baby more than you's", etc.

ETA2:  Wow, GEE GEE, did this strike a chord or what?  LOL  Methinks we have found one of the AP's you're speaking of, MamaKate.  She came out of the woodwork for the sole purpose of attempting to shame you into shutting up.  Hmmmm...

Answer 2

No, I don't think they should be asked to do that at all.  I think it puts undue pressure on someone.

Adoption should be for people who feel it is their only choice, or truly the best thing for their baby.

It also leads to comparions.....they have two parents, they have a nice house, they have more money, they have this and that.  I'm married, have a lovely home, stable marriage...but I bet there are couples out there with MORE money a BETTER house, and a MORE stable marriage..so should my children be placed for adoption?

Good Heavens...these woman aren't being asked to give a blood or even a kidney...this is their child.

I think woman who choose adoption should be reassured with success stories, as well as cautioned with the negatives, but no...they don't have to consider anyone but themselves, the father and the baby.

This is why I am against prematching.  The women often get attached to their adoptive parents and don't want to disappoint them.  The adoptive parents get heart broken if minds are changed (I know we don't really care about that on this board, but I do).

I think people can be prescreened and a home study done.  If the mother wants to read through them and consider them prior to the birth that is fine, she should and be counseled before the birth.....but to have Mr. and Mrs. Perfect in the wings waiting with their hopes and their perfect nursery isn't fair...to anyone.

Friends of mine completed a home study...they were called nearly 2 years later that they had been chosen...they were confused...no prematch, no meetings.

The mother was 35 years old, the father was there as well.  She said she had to meet the baby and be sure she could do it before she held out hope to someone....she also asked a very important question..."How do I choose parents for someone I've never even seen?"  She had read the profile, watched their video, done all the counseling, but there was no prematch.

I think that may be the way we should look at it, although I do see some problems in picking that quickly.

Sorry you got attacked for asking a question..seems to be a repeated problem on this board!

Answer 3

I think they mean well, they are just trying to reassure the bmom, that they will be good parents to her child. Maybe they just try too hard.

I think it's interesting how they do things nowadays, when I young and pregnant, I was hidden, everything was a secret and I lived the lie for 30 years. I can't imagine interviewing prospective parents, it's new day for sure.

Answer 4

Should the expectant mother take into consideration the feelings of the wanna be parents?  No.

Should she give a rats butt about how they feel? No.

If she is contemplating adoption, usually it is because she is in a bind.  Finances, lack of family support, insecurities (especially if she is a first time mom) can wreak havok on a changing body and mind.  If, at some point into the adoption plan, she decides that she does not want to relinquish, she should not have to give a single l**k of thought to the feelings of the PAP's.  Even after she gives birth and spends time with her baby, no thought whatsoever.  Even if she revokes the consent within the timeframe, no thought.  This is HER baby, not some stranger she gestated for 9 months.  The PAP's have to learn to simply deal with it and move on.  The only thing that should matter to the expectant mother is her baby and her.

Shelley P- it is nothing against PAP's or AP's.  They are the ones who will benefit from the mother's decision, so there is a conflict of interest in taking their thoughts into consideration.  Of course they are going to want a woman to relinquish her baby.  And many of them are understanding and tho heartbroken, understand that the baby is often times better off with their natural mother.  None of us are saying PAP's and AP's are bad, but their feelings should not even be in the equation due to the conflict of interest.  This is about the baby and his/her mother, and if she wants to parent, she should not have to take anyone's thoughts or feelings into consideration other than her baby's and herself.

Answer 5

No, a decision to surrender a child to adoption should NEVER be based on a POV of any PAP.

PAP's and AP's are the only ones who benefit in adoption without loss from the adoption. OF COURSE the pap would want the mother to surrender, would the pap get what the pap wants if the mother DIDN'T surrender? sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

( the loss of infertility isn't a loss of adoption those are two seperate issues )

"Truth is, 95% of birthmoms want the adoptive parents there at the hospital, if not in the delivery room."

Can anyone say AGENCY HOGWASH?

Answer 6

I disagree.

I think that when someone asks a question regarding adoption, it's reasonable to expect responses from all perspectives: first mothers, adoptees and adoptive parents.  Why is it that here, the feelings/perspectives/ experiences of the adoptive parents are always minimalized, marginalized and trivialized?  

Unless a question is specifically addressed to adoptees or to people who relinquished a child for adoption, I see no reason why adoptive parents shouldn't offer their perspectives too.  All perceptions and experiences are equally valid.

ETA: After the clairification, should the expectant parents consider the POV, as in how happy this will make them, no.  Should expectant parents talk to adoptive parents about their experiences as adoptive parents (not as perspective parents for this child, but about their experience in general)?  Why not?  I don't think of it as "selling" adoption, but it seems logical and reasonable that expectant parents might want to talk to adoptive parents of other children to get some questions answered from a non-threatening source.  Like: Can you love a child not from your body?  That's a question best directed to adoptive parents.  

Sorry for my confusion, MK.  When I read the question last night it sounded like one of those "Why are AP/PAPs responding to this question?"  I see nothing wrong with adoptive parents offering their experiences, stories, perceptions.

Answer 7

"Truth is, 95% of birthmoms want the adoptive parents there at the hospital, if not in the delivery room. Afterall, having parents there for her child after she has chosen not to be -- is the whole idea of her choosing adoption"

this bugs me.  You know that 95 % of ALL Expectant mothers, not birthmothers, as she hasn't had the child yet,  want the paps in the room??  Considering she is still the MOTHER at the time and the paps are just that -- paps.  I really would like to know how in the world you came up with this number because I know dozens of MOTHERS who were very happy NOT to have the paps anywhere near them while in the hospital.

The expectant mother should only consider HER feelings.  Those are the ones that are most important.  HER feelings and not the feelings from someone who may or may not be raising her child.

My daughter is not now nor ever a gift.  I am not their birthmom.  I am my daughters birthmom and my daughter is a child, not a gift.  gag.

Answer 8

No  I don't think an expectant mother should be considering the needs and wants of the PAPS.   All she needs to be thinking of is herself and her baby - her pregancy and any decisions made about her pregancy is between her and her baby.

Answer 9

I do agree with you to a point.

The point I disagree with you on, is "stretched"...and that is the AP POV...INDIVIDUALLY.

An expectant mother SHOULD get to know the POV of her potential AP in relation to contact, openness, etc.  Only then will she know if the match is truly right for her.

She should also seek unbiased counseling from a professional to help her make sure that adoption truly IS the right decision for her...and unbiased means not set up by the agency she may have chosen to help her adopt her child.

In this age, AP's do tend to "sell" adoption...but I think that is because of the fact that in the media, many AP/Birth mom situations aren't so great...if they told about all the great ones, it would get boring...so they tend to feel the need to "sell" their POV because adoption usually gets a negative rap.

But, like I said, the other points, I completely agree with you on, and surprise, I am an adoptive mother (maybe it's because I adopted from foster care rather than an infant is why I can be more objective about it).

Answer 10

What a surprise! We don't matter.. We are drooling, vegetative morons with no imput to give

I think most of you know I'm a PAP

Jennfer L, as is common, hit the nail on the head.. ANY question on this forum can be answered by ANYONE.. and this question WAS (and  many of the answers to it) one of the NUMEROUS bashes against PAPs/APs that are constantly flooding this forum.. I won't quit complaining about this until it stops. .Until EVERYONE on this forum is respected

So.... all the advice I've given to expectant mothers to reconsider (as in think twice before) relinquishing, but rather, to consider options to enable her to parent, is moot?? simply because I'm a *GASP* Pap?  But  hey! According to Gershom, I  must by lying, because as a PAP there is NO WAY I would EVER advise ANY pregnant woman to do ANYTHING with  her child besides put it up for adoption..

PFFTT

some of you guys make me sick.. sorry..

I don't think I've ever tried to "sell" adoption to anyone, except maybe someone leaning heavily toward abortion, which I will NEVER apologize for..

I've ALWAYS told expectant mothers that parenting is the best option..

QUIT TREATING US LIKE THE ENEMY!!!! QUIT TREATING US LIKE WE ARE LOWER THAN DIRT!

And quite frankly, I don't see how someone writing anything online can really PRESSURE anyone.. If I ask a question on Yahoo Answers and someone says "This is what you should do"  or even, "I tried this and had a great experience" I certainly don't feel like there's a gun to my head, forcing me to follow up on their advice..

So my answer to your question is: When someone needs advice, they should listen to ANY good resonable advice, and take it or leave it.

If I posted a question asking "When considering adopton, should PAPs listen to the bitter, complaining adoptees that won't get over the BSE, which was 30 years ago for pete sake!!"  I'd be crucified, drug and quartered, and then burnt at the stake...

But THIS question is acceptable??? PFFT

Answer 11

The only POV the expectant mother should be considering is her own, and what her baby's would be.  NO one elses.

There is Zero need to sell adoption. Everyone knows what adoption is there for, but the trouble is MamaKate if the people who are selling it, agencies,lawyers,paps and aps stopped selling it as this wondrous marvelous thing in the entire world and the absolute BEST Thing you can do for your baby, and that you are giving this child a HOPE by placing him/her then expectant mothers might not be in such a hurry to hand over their baby...and they ALL Know it , the agencies , lawyers paps and aps..so they keep churning out the propaganda (aka BS)  machine "Adoption is Best"

Its just so sad that so many people are sucked into it including some of those so desperate for a child

Gee - Gee Gee thats not very nice is it

Answer 12

no.  the decision to relinquish a child should have NOTHING to do with an unrelated entity. it should be because the mother believes that adoption is best for HER...and her child.  although i can empathize with those who want to adopt; i don't see where a pregnant woman has to endure her emotional issues AND those of paps who want to adopt.

this is why pre-birth matching and advise given to pregnant women by paps  is so icky to me.  it's a breeding  ground for coercion and pressure to place. IMO

ETA: after giving this question more thought, i wanted to add something- pregnant women who do NOT choose adoption are NEVER told to think of the feelings, beliefs, et al of others. furthermore, pregnant women who parent are encouraged to be "emotionally selfish" due to the tremendous stress, hormones and physical demands on them during pregnancy, labor, delivery and post-partum recovery. they are told to limit visitors and delivery room guests. and to place major decision making on the back burner.  yet, paps, adoption agencies, (and others who will benefit from this placement) have no effing problem placing so much pressure on pfmoms, and even get upset when she regrets her choice to place.

are mother who relinquish any less emotional, and deserving of being "socially selfish" then those women who do not place their babies?

ETA: " Truth is, 95% of birthmoms want the adoptive parents there at the hospital, if not in the delivery room. "-- really?  i'd love to read this research... but somehow, i think it's merely conjecture.

Answer 13

I am not sure if this was asked based on your reference to this question or not (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;... )

but when a nmom is pregnant and considering adoption, she MUST put the needs of the child first; whether that is to relinquish or parent, SHE must make that decision.  I would hope that she has a family member, friend, or some other trusted person in her life she could go to assist with this decision and at that point, the POV of the agency and the APs POV should not come into play.  

However, once a nmom decides to place her baby for adoption and then change her mind; if it is not in the best interest of the child; why is it that the AP's feelings should be dismissed?  We put our hearts and souls into this child to only be dismissed and belittled?  It is at this point, our feelings must be considered too as long as it is in the best interest of the child.  If the child has already formed a bond and attached to us, then it is not right for a nmom to try to take that away from the child.  At this point an open adoption would be necessary.

Personally, with all the responses from adoptees about how they were not loved and were abused, then I would think that  there would be support for Ap's showing some emotion when it comes to this child.

Have I misunderstood this question?

Answer 14

In making an adoption decision, a birthmother should obviously think about what what is best for her child (that is what being a parent is about) and of course what decision she feels is the best for her as well.  Most mothers will choose pain for themselves if their child is o.k.  That has been verbalized to me countless times, as a professional in this field.  The best adoption agencies do NOT involve the adoptive parents until the birthmother requests it.  Certainly not in the decision making stage!  And she is always offered to plan out what she wants to happen and when at the hospital.  Truth is, 95% of birthmoms want the adoptive parents there at the hospital, if not in the delivery room.  Afterall, having parents there for her child after she has chosen not to be --  is the whole idea of her choosing adoption.  If she did not feel that other parents were needed for her child, she would not have chosen adoption.  And adoption is not babysitting -- as some people have suggested -- having the adoptive parents care for the child "until" the birthmother makes up her mind.  I can tell you that birthmothers would not opt for that.  They have that choice now.  And very, very few ask for that plan.  There are  voluntary foster care agencies out there now who can assist any mother who is considering whether placing a baby for adoption is truly what she wants or needs.

Answer 15

I think my trouble with how adoption is presented to expectant parents is that they are supposed to think of the child first and then the potential adoptive parents second.  They aren't supposed to think about their own wants, needs or desires or at least no where near as important as the other two.  Look at failed matches, failed relinquishments and failed placements.  The first thought isn't thank goodness they felt good enough to parent... instead it's how horrible and heartbreaking for the potential adoptive parents and how troublesome that now they feel fit enough to parent despite making an adoption plan which equates to being unfit in many people's logic.

Without a doubt, the guilt of hurting a potential adoptive parent feeds into the concept of believing that one is an incubator for their baby.

Answer 16

Very good points.

The saddest thing about infant adoption - is that a mother has to be made to feel 'not a mother' - in order to give her child away to another.

How sad is that?!!

A mother has to be told that she is incapable of parenting - unworthy of being a child's mother - because someone else 'might' be better.

Unless their is imminent harm - no one is better for a baby than the mother he/she was born too.

That's just how nature intended.

If more people looked after the mothers - less children would need to be adopted.

But wouldn't the NCFA and all the adoption agencies kick up a stink about that - their money making merchandise (the babies) would no longer be available.

If only the USA could follow Australia's lead - and actually look after the mothers.