USA invades Iraq, Iraq hadn't fired a shot in anger..fine, Georgia shells Russians, Russia invades Georgia?

Question

USA condemns Russian invasion and orders them to withdraw. Is this hypocrisy?

Answer 1

Kosovo is closer analogy,

Russia claims it is protecting osetian minority from Georgia, who is about to commit ethnic cleansing (just started on August 08), so Georgia is bombed to smithereens and Osetia needs independence.

Russia was pretty pissed off by Kosovo independence, nobody listened to Moscow protests. Now they have their sweet vengeance.

  

Answer 2

No

Answer 3

Hardly.

Georgia, to begin with, shelled not Russians, but S.O. separatists, which were financed and armed by Russians since 1990.

I'd be curious to see which country would tolerate such armed group on their territory for 17 years, shooting at them all those years. That is if separatists are not backed by Russia which also bombs your territory once in a while to prevent you from taking on the separatists.

Clearly, not Russia which killed 300,000 civilians in Chechnya for exactly same reasons. Chechens declared independence and were armed and worth noting, Chechens were armed by Russian weapons left for them by Russian army when they left first time.

Now, they go into Georgia territories which are well outside of conflict region, marauding and killing.

I don't think US was right about Iraq, but I wouldn't compare situation in Georgia to that.

Georgia didn't instigate "all this", Russia did when they started supporting and arming separatists on Georgian soil. Russia kept  this conflict going for last 17 years.

In case you don't know, there were shootings and shellings from both sides, while Russian peacekeepers did nothing to prevent  provocations from S.O. side.

It was Russia shooting down Georgian UAVs and "accidentally" bombing Georgian territory long before this conflict.

Still, Georgia didn't attack Russia. Look at the map.

Official Russian excuse was to protect Russian Citizens which in fact are ethnic Ossetins, those separatists supported all those years. Russia simply gave them Russian passports in violation of  their own law.

S.O. Fired at Georgian side daily starting Aug. 1st. Russian peacekeepers did nothing. They planted a bomb on Georgian side, 6 policeman injured, again, peacekeepers do nothing. Finally, on 7th S.O. started shelling 2 Georgian villages around Tskhinvali and half an hour after that Georgia attacked.

To Max - You say Georgia "oppressed" ethnic Ossetins?

Interestingly enough, there are 30,000 ossetins in S.O. and 100,000 Ossetins living in Georgia. Do you think if Georgian were oppressing Ossetins those 100,000 would've left Georgia long ago? Or they're masochists?

As of today we have 44 dead in S.O. (both military and civilican), and it's not very clear how many were killed by Georgian attack and how many were killed by 200 Russian airplanes bombing S.O. to force Georgian army out.

200+ dead in Georgia, outside of the conflict zone and counting.

We have Russia and Ossetia accusing Georgia of genocide, without any proof of it, how hard can it be to take a photo of those thousands of dead they claim?

And 2 days ago S.O. president Kokoiti announced that he demolished all Georgian villages they captured and refugees won't be permitted to come back. That is 100% ethnic cleansing committed by Russians and S.O. separatists.

Looting by Russian army and S.O. separatists on Georgian territory are very well documented, just search on youtube.

Wayne C - Is that what you're applauding to? May be you should read too before posting.

P.S. Wayne - As I see it it's the opposite. Russia is rebuilding the USSR, that's pretty much it. As you can see they have no intention to leave Georgia. President signs a treaty and next day some s*****k from military comes out and corrects the president(!) that he agreed about pull back, not pullout. it's very clear who's running the show in Russia.

In other words if Russia gets away with this, then Georgia is just the beginning. Russia has troops in Moldova, where they created exactly the same situation. They have claims with Ukraine. Part by part, they're trying to take back what was lost when USSR broke apart...

Answer 4

Hmm.  Iraq was under UN sanctions, but their top brass was too busy taking bribes to inforce them.  The terms to end the Gulf War was not being adhered to.  The 500 tons of yellow cake uranium that was part of the non existant nuclear program of Iraq was sold to Canada.  This was in part of the weapons of mass distruction argument that was correct, but kept secret for security reasons because the cake was still in Iraq and was a security issue.  Shots have been fired in anger on a regular basis due to violations of the no fly zone.  The US only  went through the invasion process after the UN failed to uphold its commitments in enforcing the commitments agreed upon after the first gulf war.

I don't recall Russia trying to use the UN to address the problems between Them and Georgia on the disputed territory.  I also remember an attempted assasination by Russia through dioxn poisoning and trying to overthrow the election process in georgia before the dispute.

The circumstances are quite different.

Answer 5

Russia didn't invade Georgia. That's the main mistake

Answer 6

Your question validates the axiom that " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." In this case extremely little knowledge and a huge, partisan axe to grind.

Thanks, Mr. Cellophane, for filling in the obvious void that exists in this gentleman's knowledge bank regarding the two issues. Perhaps you could do the same for the "article deprived" Maxkhim.

Answer 7

It is indeed hypocrisy.

I watched a Condi Rice interview in which she says that "in the 21st century, you cannot invade a sovereign country, overthrow its government, and occupy its capital."  Apparently, she totally forgot that the United States did the exact same thing in Iraq.  I was laughing like crazy.

But, in my opinion, both USA and Russia are wrong for what they did.  USA, however, is in no position to be telling Russia what to do at this point.  

Answer 8

Absolutely. The Russians had every right to intervene; the amount of force used is the issue.

Georgia was not a rogue nation ruled by a brutal dictator, instead it was a newly formed democracy seeking to join NATO.

If not for international condemnation, the Russians would be announcing the annexation of Georgia right now.

Answer 9

I thought that is what happened. It is hypocrisy what's happening in Georgia. Georgia instigated this first and now the United States is backing up a country that basically started this whole thing? Generally speaking but still.  

Answer 10

The stronger part is always right. That's all politics is about and that's why I hate it.

American policy has been to surround Russia with NATO bases and provoke conflicts on Russia's periphery. They even supported Chechen rebels and that's why Brits refuse to give back to Russia Zakaev, a field commander, and Berezovsky, who partly financed them.

During the Civil war in Russia in 1918 there was an episode when the Red Army suffered one defeat after another and to enlist more troops, they just hired bandits. All means are good. That's what America is doing now.

Answer 11

that's a good point. i would invade any country and punish them for killing my solders against peace agreement. Georgia oppressed south ossetia, killed Russian military persons, planed to invade South ossetia. Russia stopped and punished them. gosh i hate people that don't know shitt but try to sound all smart

Wayne C- great point, too bad lots of people base their opinion on hate and fear toward Russian. Georgia's ethic cleansing is barbaric method of killing innocent people.

Visor you're a moron

Answer 12

How about claims of nuclear weapons which will be violating the terms of the Gulf War's cease fire, having a tyrant who was a threat to the stability of the region, and for the genocide occurring in the past.

Answer 13

In diplomacy it called "double standard". In normal human - hypocrisy. It's usual government practice for centuries. But last time US do it too often and too rough.

2 Mr. Cellophane

Oh yeah, mass destruction was finded but it's the secret (Rober Gates says it you in confidence I suppose).  I laugh until cries. 500 tonns or uranium do you know what technologies neccesery to have to produce such quantity of uran? Learn the physics before talk nonsense.

Answer 14

Yes!

Answer 15

kinda, but they are still very different situations

Answer 16

"Iraq hadn't fired a shot in anger"?????

The links are just a few examples of what President Clinton did and some others concerning Iraq firing on aircraft enforcing the United Nations "No fly zone"

Short memory???

Russian Troops have been in the Georgian break away provinces since 1992 as "peace keepers". They were also fired on when Georgia fired the artillery barrage. Did you note that Ms Rice went to Georgia and twisted an arm to get them to sign the cease fire with Russia.

Why would anyone in politics say anything other than "you should withdraw".

You need to watch the news and read the paper more often!

I applaud the Russians for making a quick and heavy response. My former enemy who's nuclear breath was once a mere 40 miles to my 3 "O" clock has put an end to the nonsense that Georgia provoked.

The last link is a history of Georgia, you need to read it.

SSG US Army 73-82

Edit: Point taken Visor. However in reading all the stories that include so many references to "ethnic cleansing" I come to the conclusion that like the middle east they suffer from the constant border changes of antiquity. So many of these problems have roots in the very distant past yet no one will let go and just play nice with each other. If the people in those break away areas prefer to be Russian is that not OK. The c**p has to end. I do not want to see my grandchildren learning the "duck and cover" that I did. I do not want a greatgrandchild standing watch 1000 yards from a bunker full of tacticle nukes like I did. I would like to see the literacy rates in all these problem spots rise. I would like to see posts in here from young people using "I instead of i".

In short if Russia putting it's big boot down puts an end to this then "Good"!!!