Vegetarians, can you please answer my question honestly? ?

Question

I am a scientist. My qualifications are in biological sciences with majors in genetics and endocrinology. I have never worked in the meat or dairy industry. I have no axe to grind with vegetarians and I fully understand many of the reasons for choosing this life style. But when ever any one mentions the mounting body of evidence that unfermented soy products may not actually be that good for people, many vegetarians seem to take this as a personal attack and immediately blame the pro meat and dairy lobby. So, if some of us are just trying to give you a friendly “heads up, there may be a problem”, why the immediate backlash like these posts are a personal attack or trying to undermine your entire reason for being?

Answer 1

I agree with Toe the Line.  I have heard for a while now about the problems TOO MUCH soy can have on a person's health.  I do eat a lot of soy, but I try not to eat TOO MUCH.  

I still think a diet rich in soy is healthy, based on what I have read and researched, but as toe the line said, too much of anything can be a problem :)

Good post.  I wasn't offended at all!

Answer 2

First of all, I don't actually find similar questions an attack. This issue is still a current debate on health practitioners and doctors alike. Soy CAN help prevent prostate cancer as it inhibits prostate cancer cell growth. Now, excessive soy intake may not be beneficial anymore but may increase the chances of developing breast cancer in women. That is when vegetarians take them in excess. As a vegan, i don't have problems about it because I make it sure I don't incorporate too much soy products on my  diet mainly because there are alot more foods that are vegan that can be eaten. That's it.

Answer 3

Thanks for the "head's up".

I am one of those people that don't really eat much soy at all.  Usually only eat it when I am eating oriental foods that have it within.  Since the ex left - I still have the 'soy meat' left over from when he was here since he ate it literally every day, several times a day.

I am one of those that see too much of anything, not always a good thing.

The problem that you are running into is that you challenge the beliefs that many have - and many don't accept such.  They have their websites to support their belief - someone told them and 'you know that they know' sort of approach.  There are times that what they have based their belief on is - shaky.  On this we agree.

But you also have to admit that science has made some mistakes in the past with many of their claims about foods that were 'unsafe'.  Few years ago, coffee was suppose to be 'bad' - now they are saying that it is nowhere close to what they suggested and even suggest drinking it now.  Eggs were said to be horrid years ago by those in science - yet now there are many that claim the health benefits of eating them in moderation.

Point is - scientists have made mistakes in the past when it comes to the health benefits of certain foods.

I personally like seeing such comments as yours.  Gives me more information to search out vs. the quick finds that come up on a search engine that usually only presents information that has been 'hit' on most - not the most current or even best sources - just the more popular ones come up first.

Answer 4

Interesting question.

I have read round this subject quite a lot; I probably get challenged about it more than most vegans because I've had oestrogen-dependent breast cancer.

I'm no scientist, but my understanding is this: soya proteins contain isoflavones that can mimic a weak oestrogen effect. This is  not the same as the oestrogen your own body makes - it is 1,000 times weaker than your own body's oestrogen, but it's this that has led to concerns about oestrogen dependent cancer and about adverse effects on men.

I've found no  actual scientific evidence that soya causes, prevents, contributes to or affects the progress of any cancer, including oestrogen positive breast cancer, which is the one most often cited. There are those in the field who argue that isoflavones may be of help in preventing breast cancer or be beneficial to women who have had breast cancer.

There's  some current research into whether increasing phyto oestrogens in the diet helps to prevent breast or prostate cancer.

A study in 2002 found that women with the highest levels of soya products in their diets had the lowest breast density - higher breast density being associated with higher breast cancer risk. This is the first time that soya has been found to have a direct effect on breast tissue.

Women with the highest levels of isoflavones in their diet are reported to have significant risk reductions for uterine cancer.

I know studies aren't proof - I often  have occasion to point that out on this forum, where it's often claimed that 'meat causes cancer', or that veg*nism protects against it.

In The Breast Cancer Protection Diet, Dr Bob Arnot claims that eating between 35g and 60g of soya protein  a day  protects against breast cancer by raising intake of the oestrogen-blocker genistein.

I'd say the jury was out on this and evidence is inconclusive; and I feel I haven't seen any evidence so far that is strong enough to stop me eating soya in moderation. But if I did, I would.

To answer your actual question - not sure if you're talking about veg*ns of your acquaintance or users of this forum. Yes there are some people here who see any questioning as an attack; it's worth bearing in mind though that 9 times out of 10 such questions (I don't just mean about soya) are  'GOTCHA!' type questions, so sometimes people are a little defensive.

Also, many - probably most - people using this forum are very young and usually newly converted, and nobody's more zealous and gung-ho than a new convert. Might help explain some of the reactions you mention

Edit** Thanks; I'm in remission and in December will be 5 years from diagnosis. At my last routine check-up I had no evidence of cancer - the most they will say as there's no all-clear.

I had conventional treatments including chemo and ate my normal amount of soya during treatment.

I still feel the evidence is not conclusive, but as a result of your post and some others here I intend to look into this more closely, having so far dismissed concerns about soya

Answer 5

You can find studies in support of soy, meat, and eggs and you can find studies that say that they cause cancer and anything else.  I can't speak for all vegans, but most people who bring it up (I never do) seem obsessed with my diet and I can't understand why, especially since I have no interest at all in what they consume, which usually consists of animal products and sugar.  Plus, most people who feel the need to "educate" vegans on the dangerousness of their diet know nothing about nutrition, medicine, biology, or any similar field.  You cannot convince me that eating a rotting dead animal, raised in filth and riddled with disease, is good for you.  The meat needs to be cooked past a certain temperature to kill most of the bacteria present- doesn't that tell you something about its safety?

Answer 6

Too much of anything can be bad for you. Everything in moderation, including soy.  

Answer 7

From all the posts here I can only conclude that something is getting lost in the translation from healthy Asian soy to mass produced unhealthy western soy. From my own research and if I have to generalize – fermented soy is good for you, unfermented soy is poison. The active anti-cancer agent genistein is only found in properly fermented soy. Unfermented soy contains the precursor genistin, which is one of the most potent known naturally occurring carcinogens. It is the same with all the other healthy aspects of soy – they only occur in the fermented product. Daidzin is present in unfermented soy and considered a health risk, highly carcinogenic, as opposed to daidzein present in fermented soy, which appears to have health benefits. The Asians found out hundreds of years ago that soy had to be fermented to make it safe and healthy. But in the rush to get the wonder food onto the market, the current industry is trying to convince everyone that we can get the same health benefits from unfermented products – fermentation takes longer, costs more and will reduce the volume of soy sales. I think this is where the confusion lies and why some vegetarians think they are taking a moral stance with anyone who considers soy to be unhealthy, especially as the evidence from the east strongly suggest that soy is good for you. So I go with the people who have been eating soy for centuries and not the “Johnny come lately” big business. I eat fermented soy products that are good for me, as do the Asians – I will not touch unfermented soy as it is definitely poisonous.  

Answer 8

I really doubt that soy can be any worse than meat.  

Answer 9

A very interesting observation. I have noticed this a few times. It is not as if the whole vegetarian idea is under attack, it's just one type of food popular with vegetarians. Then some of them go off on a “anti-vegetarian” tangent and everyone that isn't a veggie is against them and trying to get them onto meat. The reality is that no one is condemning lentils, pulses, nuts, cucumbers or any of the other vegetarian staples. Just soy. Doesn't this tell you something. There is no controversy about any other types of good healthy vegetarian foods and no one is telling you to turn away from your convictions. Just soy. Or is this something to do with suppressed thyroid function due to soy consumption? So while the jury is out and more research is done, why not take most (although not all) of the posts for what they are, a sincere warning that soy may not be all it's cracked up to be.  

Answer 10

soy makes men infertile, also soy makes people lose their memory.  I was going to go back to being a veggie, but I'm not now kids are more important