Was Valery Kharlamov better than Wayne Gretzky?

Question

Was Valery Kharlamov better than Wayne Gretzky?

Answer 1

Nope. No one has topped the Great One yet.

Answer 2

very hard to compare hockey players on the same team, let alone different eras and systems - i don't think gretzky would have been a great euro/asian player, not a great skater

"like i'm ..." makes some comments that leave educated/experienced hockey fans/players at a loss - almost any passive observer of the early summit series has to agree that the russian players were (are) spectacular - to play "canadian style" rules and still play such close series was really a tribute to their style - the russians were totally "jobbed" by the officials - when it's said that kharlamov couldn't take a hit, i wonder if they mean "a hit" like roberts put on franzen or the slash that bobby clark put on his ankle (that he played on) - silly and biased comments about robotic hockey - i have heard how "canadian school" theorists feel about too much passing and stickhandling - a good "canadian style" goal is a shot thrown at the net and three guys in the crease whacking and hacking until the puck (and whatever else) goes in - in a skills competion, i think kharlamov would make wayne look silly, but wayne could score - and talk about someone who couldn't take a hit ... did anyone ever hit gretzky - i think that's something like throwing the canadian flag on the ground and spitting on the maple leaf

mark f - i have read and watched as much on the summit series as anyone i know - former canadian players (i'll dig up quotes if people want them) have not only raved about the russians skill (some said they felt helpless at times), but have all but admitted that the series were rigged - flat out, the canadians mauled the soviets and not mauled within the rules - i would love to sit down and watch clips with any (knowledgable hockey player/fan) and see someone defend the canadian play and the officials treatment  - the last mini-series on cbc gave the impression that that is what happened - as to russians coming over here and not succeeding, they were not wanted and the officiating continued with a euro/asian bias - they do today against detroit because they are seen as a e/a team - to go from a skill oriented game in e/a to the clutch, hook, slash and crosscheck game of canada is too much to ask of anyone - the nhl is leaning to a skill game now, forty years later, but the old guard is still holding on to the past - witness the crosscheck in the back - ten times per shift minimum - quote the page of the rulebook that says that is legal - it isn't legal, but it sure does of good job of keeping skill players down to canadian standards - if you want to see this in action ... tune in tonight and watch detroit parade to the box for one-hand-on-the-stick hooks and other touch calls and pitt continue to maul euro/asians

ps. check the bios of the officials - as the number of non-north american players has increased in the past decade, how many international officials has the nhl added ... must be an oversight - it would make most people ill to see the way the nhl bullies the ioc to "game" the system for the olympics also

Answer 3

Coachcoob

As a Russian who was part of the Soviet Ice Hockey Federation in the 70s and 80s, I have to agree with some of what LITY said.  Our players in the 70s took a great deal of criticism from the likes of Herb Brooks, Scotty Bowman, Fred Shero, etc as players who had no individuality, and couldn't think for themselves.  Nor did they have too.

Wayne Gretzky was a very special player, a player that many of our players learned to appreciate as part of an exchange program the IIHF co-ordinated from 1980 though 1985 with Canada, USA, USSR and CSSR.

Kharlamov was a special player as well, a man who died long before his time.  However, I think it is fair to say that ALL of teh great Russian players of the 70s (Petrov, Vasiliev, Mikhailov, Kharlamov, Maltsev, etc) were more than a notch below their North American counterparts.

It's probably safe to say that none of our players were on the same level as an Orr, or a Lafleur, or a Dionne, or a Gretzky, or a Trottier.  They played together as a unit, as a team.

You mention a skills competition.

There will skills competitions as part of the 1976 Canada Cup and Mikhailov and Kharlamov fell short to average players like Darryl Sittler and Bill Barber.

I personally think LITY is giving too much credit to Kharlamov (as do most NHL scouts of the period like Marcel Pronovost (Buffalo) and Terry Clancy (Detroit)).  They were great in the system, they weren't so great outside of it.

Vladimir Krutov.................Giant Killer as the Green Unit...........lasted a very short time in the NHL.  Sergei Makarov........never adapted.  And these are players who are as highly regarded in the Soviet Union as any, Makarov still has a Gretzky like aura back home because many feel his records are untouchable, similar to what they thought about Boris Mikhailov's records before that.

Having seen Kharlamov in his prime, and Gretzky from afar.  I would have a great deal of trouble putting Kharlamov on any semblance of a pedastel near Gretzky.  Or even a Guy Lafleur (who was probably as popular in Soviet hockey circles as he was in Canada).

People need to stop making blanked statements about Russians.  Another poster here a few months ago talked about how 'late' Russian players develop, when Russian players have always been known as fast developers.

As for the 1972 Summit Series...........I was there.  1976 Canada Cup, I was there.  1979 Challenge Cup.  I was there too.  I saw how much trouble our guys had when facing real competition.  It wasn't always pretty.  We could have used Igor Viazmykhin back then.

Answer 4

You can't compare anyone to the Great One.He dominated the league and made everyone around him better.

Kharlamov may be one of the best Russians to play the game but nowhere as good as Wayne.HC CSKA Moscow had players that played with eachother for over 10 years so there was alot of chemistry with them and they had arguably one of the best goalies to ever play the game.

Answer 5

No

They were very different players who played different positions, and played in very different systems.

The one thing that sets Gretzky apart from most players was his vision on the ice.  Kharlamov (in fact most Russian players before the early 90s) were so entrenched in the Tarasov/Tikhohov system that they were emotionless robots.  The 1972 series showed that while the Russians had skills that nobody believed they had, they also had a robotic image which could be broken - and Canada broke it.

With the right players, Valeri Kharlamov would certainly have been a top 10 scorer in the NHL.  He had speed, he had a great shot, and he was a good (but not great) passer.  He handled himself well in traffic, and he played his wing like nobody's business.  He was very good defensively as well.

He could not take a hit however, he was lousy at faceoffs, and  when taken off his game, lost his focus easily.  Again, because the Russian system didn't allow for a lot of deviation from the core plays, when faced with improvisation opportunities (and the 72 series and 76 Canada Cup gave him numerous opportunities) he was at times hopelessly lost (as were Mikhailov and Maltsev).

There is an article written by long-time Toronto Star columnist Frank Orr that was published in the Hockey News in 1981 wihich compares a 20 yr old Wayne Gretzky with a 21 yr old Igor Larionov.  Larionov was the first Russian great that could think outside the box.