What's the best way of fuelling electric vehicles? Will trolleybuses make a comebak?

Question

What's the best way of fuelling electric vehicles? Will trolleybuses make a comebak?

Answer 1

Jim C hasn't got all the facts on nuclear.

2006  from  http://www.earthtrack.net/earthtrack/lib...

"Federal subsidies to new nuclear power plants are likely between 4 and 8 cents per kWh (levelized), and could well be the determining factor driving the construction of new nuclear power plants.  $9 billion per year in the U.S."

"Tens of billions of dollars have been earmarked for the nuclear sector on the grounds that it is the only large scale, currently available, low carbon power source. Yet defining the objective as "energy services with a small carbon footprint" would likely generate scores of faster, cheaper, and lower risk carbon reduction options that in the aggregate greatly reduce or eliminate the need for nuclear. (Lovins, 2005)"

http://www.cleanwisconsin.org/campaigns/...

"We import 65 percent of our oil, but 90 percent of our uranium. At a time when state and federal leadership has set goals for "energy independence," reliance on nuclear power would mean depending on technology that requires fuel imported from overseas. Moreover, according to MIT scientists, there is less global supply of enriched uranium than commonly projected and the price has increased more than tenfold over the last five years."

"A report from Argonne National Lab concluded that aircraft crashes could subject nuclear plants to numerous multiple failures that could lead to "total meltdown" even without direct damage to the containment structure."

Do you think the terrorists know this?

"Estimates of the cost to construct nuclear power plants are as high as $4,000 per kilowatt, as compared to about $1,400 per kilowatt for wind projects."

"Some people object to government subsidies for renewable energy projects. What they might not know is that new nuclear plants are being underwritten by tax dollars in amounts infinitely larger than any support being offered to clean, safe energy sources."

" The nuclear industry has long enjoyed limited liability for nuclear accidents under the Price-Anderson Act, which ensures that taxpayers, not industry, will pay for damages in the event of a serious accident."

"Part of our electric rates go to payments to the federal Nuclear Waste Fund, which is intended to fund the construction of the Yucca Mountain repository in Nevada and pay for transportation of waste to the proposed disposal site. To date, Wisconsin customers have paid about $600 million into this fund."    

That's just one state.

"Nuclear plant owners are responsible for costs to dismantle retired units, dispose of waste, and decontaminate the site. Each unit has its own decommissioning trust fund, paid for by customers. Wisconsin ratepayers have spent $1.5 billion for the eventual decommissioning of the Point Beach, Kewaunee, and Genoa plants."      

"California has made a commitment to reducing its energy use by investing much more in energy efficiency than Wisconsin does, and its per capita energy use is about half of Wisconsin's as a result. It has made real commitments to stopping global warming without building more nuclear plants, and is keeping the lights on and industry humming along just fine. Wisconsin would be wise to follow its example."

The best way to fuel electric vehicles is to have a clean electric grid to charge the batteries.

Here's how we can do that

Scientific America Solar Grand Plan

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-so...

The public money to do this would be $13 billion per year for 30 years.  We now subsidize oil and gas at about 5 times that much per year.  And we heavily subsidize coal and nuclear as well.

"The plan would effectively eliminate all imported oil, fundamentally cutting U.S. trade deficits and easing political tension in the Middle East and elsewhere. Because solar technologies are almost pollution-free, the plan would also reduce greenhouse gas emissions from power plants by 1.7 billion tons a year, and another 1.9 billion tons from gasoline vehicles would be displaced by plug-in hybrids refueled by the solar power grid. In 2050 U.S. carbon dioxide emissions would be 62 percent below 2005 levels, putting a major brake on global warming."

"The greatest obstacle to implementing a renewable U.S. energy system is not technology or money, however. It is the lack of public awareness that solar power is a practical alternative—and one that can fuel transportation as well. Forward-looking thinkers should try to inspire U.S. citizens, and their political and scientific leaders, about solar power’s incredible potential. Once Americans realize that potential, we believe the desire for energy self-sufficiency and the need to reduce carbon dioxide emissions will prompt them to adopt a national solar plan."

Here's what one company already involved with building solar thermal power plants in California says on their website.

"Solar thermal power plants such as Ausra's generate electricity by driving steam turbines with sunshine. Ausra's solar concentrators boil water with focused sunlight, and produce electricity at prices directly competitive with gas- and coal-fired electric power."

"All of America's needs for electric power – the entire US grid, night and day – can be generated with Ausra's current technology using a square parcel of land 92 miles on a side. For comparison, this is less than 1% of America's deserts, less land than currently in use in the U.S. for coal mines."

"One coal-fired power plant emits as much CO2 as 1 million cars, so replacing our electricity generation with renewables will have the greatest impact on climate change."

While it's not likely that we will exactly follow this Grand Solar Plan, it shows what we can do.  In reality, a grid that has multiple clean sources is more likely.  This type of solar plan could be the backbone of the grid, regardless.

  From what I've learned, solar thermal is already cost effective, and would seem to be a better choice that the concentrating PV that the plan emphasizes.  

And we have other good alternative energy sources that would add to the grid.  Wind energy is cheap.  

Biomass digesters for harnessing methane have big potential. Here's an example from a company called Environmental Power.

"Wild Rose Dairy in Webster Township, WI is home to an innovative renewable energy facility powered by cow manure and other organic waste. The farm is home to 900 dairy cows, and an on-site anaerobic digester creates methane-rich biogas from their waste, which is used to generate 750 kilowatts of electricity per hour—enough to power 600 local homes 24/7."

Capturing methane from land fills and sewage treatment plants is being implemented in some places already.

Green Wombat has a bunch of articles on what is already happening in California and Arizona with solar thermal plants.

from Green Wombat

"Arizona Public Service, Arizona’s largest utility, announced plans Thursday for a 280-megawatt solar power plant to be built 70 miles southwest of Phoenix by Spanish company Abengoa Solar."

"In the meantime, the Solana Generation Station is expected to inject about $1 billion into the Arizona economy as Abengoa hired 1,500 workers to build the power station and 85 others to operate it, according to APS. The utility estimates that the ripple affect will create another 11,000 to 15,000 jobs."

"Solel last July signed the world's largest solar power deal when it agreed to supply California utility PG&E (PCG) with 553 megawatts of green electricity to be produced by a massive solar thermal power plant to be built in the Mojave Desert. The company's solar trough technology is also used in nine solar power plants (photo above) that were built in the Southern California desert in the 1980s."

"BrightSource Energy, the Oakland, Calif.-based startup is negotiating a 500-megawatt agreement with California utility PG&E and is proceeding with plans to build a 400-megawatt solar thermal power station on the Nevada border."

"Silicon Valley solar startup Ausra is building a 177-megawatt solar power plant on the Central California coast to supply electricity to PG&E and is pursuing deals with Florida’s FPL (FPL) and other utilities."

"Schott Solar announced Monday that it is building a factory in Albuquerque, N.M., to manufacture components for large-scale solar thermal power plants as well as photovoltaic modules for commercial rooftop arrays."

"The German company’s news follows Silicon Valley solar startup Ausra’s announcement last month that it’s building a solar thermal factory in Nevada — the first in North America."

"Solar energy companies, utilities like PG&E (PCG) and Edison International (EIX) as well as financiers such as Morgan Stanley (MS) and GE Energy Financial Services (GE), had pushed for an eight-year extension of the investment tax credit to give Big Solar projects enough time to get off the ground and start to achieve economies of scale. The provision also would have allowed utilities to claim the credit for solar projects they build. The measure drew support from both sides of the aisle in Congress but died — by one vote in the Senate — when Bush threatened to veto the energy bill because the solar tax credit would be financed by repealing previous tax breaks given to Big Oil."

As you can see, we already have made a start, we just need the political will to follow through.

Answer 2

make the invention trolley car

Answer 3

The one EV car I currently have (have 2 vehicles that run on hydrogen also) I converted from a vw bug and is free to charge. As I live completely off the grid all my electricity comes from solar panels and 2 wind generators, which I a;sp built.

However I did charge up at Costco in Carlsbad California (I actually only drove up there to fill up) if I remember right it was around $2.00

Here’s a list of other places you can charge up, don’t know if there are any prices though.

http://www.evchargernews.com/#regions

Not sure if you’re interesting in doing it your self, but I’d be willing to walk you step by step threw the conversion. I've converted 3 of my own cars (a datsun truck, ford ban, and a vw bug) and a few for neighbors. I've also converted cars to run on hydrogen, ethanol and biodiesel, by far EV is the easiest.

If you’re interested here’s what it would entitle…

- The engine compartment is first cleaned out of any gasoline components.

- Electric components are then installed in exchange.

- A battery bank is built and incorporated.

- Existing starter and driving systems are connected.

- Turn the key, step on the gas pedal sending more energy to the electric motor, & thus more power to the drive system, which in return creates more speed, more acceleration.

- The system has normal automotive top speeds and acceleration, typical to the vehicle your modifying. If your top speed was 85 mph and your acceleration was 1 mile per min, then this will be what your left with after the conversion.

The methods are extremely simple, making the process possible for anyone, everyone, ANYWHERE.

Typical tools, hardware & supplies are used, making access to parts available for all.

Electric Conversions can be easily accomplished in ANY model vehicle, even tractors, Generators, types of machinery, etc.

Project lengths range from 1 day to 1 month.

If you’re interested I wrote a guide on it which is available at www agua-luna com

Hope this helped, feel free to contact me personally if you have any questions if you’d like assistance in making your first self sufficient steps, I’m willing to walk you step by step threw the process. I’ve written several how-to DIY guides available at  www agua-luna com on the subject. I also offer online and on-site workshops, seminars and internships to help others help the environment.

Dan Martin

Alterative Energy / Sustainable Consultant, Living 100% on Alternative & Author of How One Simple Yet Incredibly Powerful Resource Is Transforming The Lives of Regular People From All Over The World... Instantly Elevating Their Income & Lowering Their Debt, While Saving The Environment by Using FREE ENERGY... All With Just One Click of A Mouse...For more info Visit:  

www AGUA-LUNA com

Stop Global Warming, Receive a FREE Solar Panels Now!!!

Answer 4

electric cars dont use fuel they use electricity

Answer 5

No, I don't think so.  The town roads are far to congested now.  They would be so expensive to make as well.  I believe that we will be on hydrogen driven cars in the very near future, say 5 years. Every car co is working on a model now with a company called Morgan releasing a model last week capable of 80 mph. Sorry I digress. NO

Answer 6

The sheer cost of wiring up streets for trolley buses is probably prohibitive. The best way of fuelling an electric vehicles is standard exchangable batteries so you just pull into the filling station, swap out your batteries, pay and go.

Answer 7

Electric Cars don't use fuel. If you wanted to kick it up a notch... where ever there are dumps that are producing methane and just letting it go to waste...once we have ecletric cars they can convert that methane into electricty and make that a charging station for your vehicle

Answer 8

The biggest problem for cars would be range. You're looking ar about 50 miles maximum. They still need to use domestic mains to recharge so, contrary to popular belief, still leave a carbon footprint. You can't change the batteries without special equipment due to size and weight - I know, I've spent the last 30 years in the material handling industry and deal with these batteries daily.

I remember the old trolley buses in Nottingham when I was a kid. Virtually no noise pollution and the system had it's own generating stations to provide power. The City council of the time decided that diesel buses were more economic - talk about short sighted!!!

Now Nottingham is going down the line of trams. The first line was costed at £90 million and far exceeded that on completion. They are noisy to say the least, ask those who have to live next to it, and need the rails to run.

For 90 million the council could have reintroduced trolleys to a lot more of the City with the trolleys being capable of manouevring round other vehicles and running on more than one route. They also use far less electricity than trams therefore a lower carbon footprint.

Answer 9

Electric vehicles use electricity as fuel.  First you have to make the electricity and there are only 3 main sources, hydro-power, nuclear and coal, all of which are despised by environmentalists for various reasons.  Solar power is extremely expensive and doesn't work well on overcast days and not at all at night. Wind and wave power are also expensive and unreliable because they are variable.  For vehicles we could have a mix of different types of fuel, oil-based, vegetable based, coal-based, various gases up to Hydrogen, if a practical way to produce and carry it can be found.

The best type of electric vehicle, considering price, would have a 50 mile range and would recharge off the grid.  It would do for about 80% of your driving which is within 25 miles of home.  For the rest of your driving rent or buy an IC second car, with all the attendant hassle, pollution  and expense.

The most multi-fuel engine is the steam engine and with modern materials and technology it is not only cleaner than an internal combustion engine, but more efficient.  Nearly 80-90% of electricity is made using steam engines. By placing a steam engine and generator in an EV, you would have a steam-electric hybrid that would give you the best of the EV while providing the range and accessories found in IC cars.

This system would also work in buses.  The rail trolley with overhead wires is not flexible enough and is unsightly.  Electric buses which recharge a bit at each stop would be better, if the bus routes were fixed routes at all times, but there would be little flexibility in the system.  More likely is the expansion of some type of railed system which only serves areas and not door-to-door, forcing people to walk and carry purchases for some distance, placing them in danger from street thugs.

I want frflyr to explain how a solar plant operates at night.  The only suggestion for that problem I have seen was for the plant to make enough hydrogen as fuel to operate a STEAM generator to supply electricity at night.  That takes a really big solar plant.

Answer 10

The biggest problem is the source of energy. The current electrical power systems are running a near capacity. An additional 300-500 nuclear power plants (or equivalent) would be needed to convert all vehicles to electricity.

Standardized quick-change batteries is probably best unless there is a break through is super capacitors.

Hydrogen simply is not efficient. Electrical power is needed to make hydrogen gas. Less than 30% of this power will be available to the vehicle motors. The rest is lost in conversion, compression and distribution. A battery system would deliver around 80% of the electrical power to the vehicle motors. Thus hydrogen requires more than twice the number of power plants.

Answer 11

with a 90 year old technology being brought to life

every single person who owns a vehicle can make a difference in the world today

water4gas

Answer 12

trolley buses would be a better alternative to trams but who knows what might happen in the future as for the first part of the question it has to be nuclear power stations ignoring all the negative arguments the nuclear industry is still in its infancy 50years down the road all the arguments the greens put up should be resolved