What's the issue with crossing dog breeds?

Question

With all the horror stories in the news recently about blind boxers, pugs that can't walk, bulldogs that can't breathe and dalmatians that can't walk the length of themselves without having a heart attack, what is the issue that you supposed dog-lovers have with crossing breeds?

Why the snobbery?

Is a dog less of a dog because it can't be KC registered?

We all know the inherent health problems of pedigree dogs and it's a fact that mongrels are generally healthier than their parents, so why do you shout down anyone who crosses dogs, calling them irresponsible and without the interests of the dogs at heart.... seems to me the opposite is true. Due to inbreeding, selfish dog-lovers are breeding sick dogs.

Answer 1

There is nothing wrong with a cross breed.  The problem is that most people who breed cross breed dogs do so for the wrong reasons - be that for money, because they love their little poopsie so much they just want to create another one or to show their children "the miracle of birth".

The problem is that there are so many cross breed dogs and puppies sitting in rescue shelters dreaming of finding a good forever home and there just aren't enough homes for all these poor unfortunate dogs.

Also, it is a fallacy that cross breeds are always going to be more genetically healthy than a pure bred dog.  Most people who breed cross breed dogs are unable to track what genetic diseases might be in the lines behind their dog and, in addition, do not test for what genetic diseases they may be carriers of.

It is not about cross breeds vs pure breeds.  Both have a value and a worth.  It is about good breeders vs bad breeders.

A good breeder considers carefully why they are breeding their dog.  A good breeder understands that good forever homes are really difficult to find as what is a good home for a puppy may not always be that way cos circumstances within the home can change, eg divorce.  A good breeder will take a dog back at any age rather than see them end up in a shelter.  A good breeder will track the puppy's progress for all their lives.  A good breeder will be aware of the genetic backup of their dog and will test for genetic problems.  A good breeder knows that if you care for the mother and puppies properly - food, vets, etc - there is no money to be made from breeding.  A good breeder knows how to care for a pregnant bit*ch and her puppies and isn't on Y!A asking 7th hour questions about pregnancy and birth.

I am sure others can add to this list.

Answer 2

The problem is not the mutts themselves but the people who breed them. They are in it for the money end of story and anyone who says different is full of it. There is absolutely NO truth to the hybrid vigor myth whatsoever. Why? Fact- it would take SEVERAL successful generations before any improvement could be seen and most mutts are only 1st or 2nd generations

Fact: No pedigree dogs AREN'T more prone to diseases when they are bred by responsible breeders who are working to ELIMINATE the problems of the breed and or bloodline.

Fact: Not EVERY purebred dogs is inbreed - the AKC first and foremost keeps track of every pedigree and every litter registered with them. Direct blood relative inbreeding is looked down upon for just how close they are breeding. 3rd cousins no 1st cousins and closer is asking for trouble.

Fact: Mutts are no smarter than their purebred counter parts.

Fact: Mutts are 100% unpredictable as far as temperament, looks. weight, behavior lifespan and genetic health

Fact: Selfish breeders are the ones out to make a buck and more of them are making mutts than purebreds. Have you seen the prices on these animals? They are charging more than what you would for a SHOW QUALITY purebred, how the h**l does that make any sense?

Fact: If you as the consumer educate yourself and know the right questions to ask the odds of you getting a sick genetically inferior animal is less than 5%

Fact: Most of what you read sounds like it came from PETA or some other fringe animal rights group.

ADD: case in point the poodle mixes - 80-90% of them SHED like no tomorrow and are hyperactive nearly uncontrollable dogs. So called designer mutts flood the shelters every day because they shed and thy were bought for just the opposite.

Mutt breeders prey on the fact that the average person will go on word or mouth rather than doing some actual research of their own - teacup versions of already small dogs.

Hybrid vigor has been disproved time and time again not by breeders but actual geneticist in the veterinary and zoological fields.

Mixes do not live longer either - if you breed a dog with a life expectancy or 10-14 years with a dog of 15-18 all that does is include the possibility of an extra four years but just like humans any animal that is well cared for will longer than normal.

Show some links to LONG term and by longer term I meant AT LEAST 10 years on whether mutts are healthier. You won't find one credible report that hasn't been already dis proven.

If purebred breeders don't care about their animal why haven't they all died out by now? The cases you listed are 1 in 20 or more instances and often the result of poor breeding practices and improper care by their owners.

Heteeosis only applies under conditions of STRICT and CONTROLLED breeding - mutt breeders don't do that. They don't have the time or paitence for it. So again your argument has failed.

Mutt breeders can't even guarantee their dogs for life unlike many REPUTABLE breeders. For a mutt you will be lucky if you get a year of protection from GENETIC and HEREDITARY problems.

Mutts breeders do not sell on spay and neuter clauses. Their contract are written to protect one person in this transaction - them. Which is why you'll be lucky if one offers you your money back for a sick pup.

Answer 3

This is something PeTA has been trying to educate the public about for a long time.

Answer 4

I was a bit naive when I purchased my last lab Benjie, I did not realise he had been interbred until it was too late, he suffered with cancer which is what killed him in the end as it went to his spine and he also had osteoarthritis, i now have a lab again but but he is not kc and has been hip and eyed so I hope I do not get the same thing happening again. Cross breeds do normally live longer with less problems but I had a beautiful crossbreed named Blackie who died of Elephant skin disease never heard of it before except in humans so they also have problems but are not prone to defects as much.

Answer 5

I have 2 Rotts which have great breeding, their families are show dogs. There are no inbreeding traits in my dogs and I always check their breeding before buying. I will never buy a dog that has been line bred.

Answer 6

seriously i dont think you know what your talking about... where did you get your info on these purebred dogs?

and how is a mutt healthier then a purebred..

also you said a mutt pup is healthier then its parents?? ok well say you have a champion health tested German Shepherd that breeds to a Husky bred from a BYB no testing done.. how is the pup healthier then the GSD?

i think you should have done some research first.

nobody has problems with mutts, but in all fairness if only responsible people owned and bred then there wouldnt be any... therefore you have BYB, puppymills, and people wanting to make a quick buck breeding mutts, unhealthy, poorly bred dogs.. therefore mutts shouldnt exist, no problem with them just the people who breed them

show me proof that mutts are healthier then a purebred? you cant because its not true. mutts dont have a standard nor are they tested for diseases, health problems etc. purebreds from a reputable breeder is always tested for genetic problems and if they have them then they dont breed, therefore not passing along the health problem.

those links are not proof of anything.... proof means theres been testing done, statistics...actual facts not just words.

lol you havent disproved one thing yet im still waiting for the first one.

do you not know what actual facts are?? a website that just says it doesnt mean it is true.... seriously whats wrong with you? show me a website that shows the statistics of the actual test that shows that mutts are healthier.. i dont know how else to put it to you, you obviously dont know what actual proof or FACTS are...back later to see what other lame website you'll post that doesnt prove anything.

Answer 7

I'll probably be hated for saying this but the crux of the matter is many of the top breeders know full well that crossbreed/mongrels are healthier, other breeders fall victim to the lies spread and genuinely believe the spun their told. To protect themselves they put down the labradoodle, cockerpoo breeds by classing the breeders as irresponsible and not reputable. Yet these breeders are the ones producing healthier dogs (with the exception of those crossbreed breeders in it purely for the money and don't take health into consideration when breeding) Again we need to consider that most breeders be them crossbreed breeders or pedigree breeders are in it for the money and/or prestige. Pedigree breeders cannot claim they are doing it to better the breed while continuing to linebreed reducing the gene pools further, therefore damaging health further.

Some breeders will use the argument that crossbreed breeders don't health test, this again is a lie some do some don't very same with pedigree breeders. Science has also taught us that opening gene pools is more important than health testing, health testing I'm afraid means virtually sod all! if the breeders are continuing to inbreed (linebreeding). Health testing Together with outcrossing is what's needed to improve the health of our pedigree dogs. One last point on health tests is there's not much point in health testing if breeders are going to continue breeding regardless of the results, making ridiculous justifications to themselves as to why they should.

What annoys me personally about all this, is pedigree breeders and pro-pedigree breeders shout down anyone wanting to buy a crossbreed dog, quite rightly saying there are plenty in rescue to choose from. Yet they fail to mention all the pedigrees in rescue too.

This video will open your eyes to the damage we are purposefully doing to our dogs - Vet speaker at the BVA congress - http://vets.tv/video.php?vid=115&cid=10

Answer 8

I wrote my friend a long email the other day all about responsible dog ownership and breeding.

A female dog should be spayed if:

* She is not AKC (KC, Canadian KC) registered (includes non-registered dogs and also those registered with other clubs)

* She is registered but you do not plan on showing her (don't want to get into dog showing or she doesnt conform to breed standard)

* If she is registered, shown and has underlying health issues that would be passed on she should be spayed once her showing career is done.

Responsible breeders:

* Buy a potentially show quality dog (may co-own with the breeder)

* Shows their dog, it wins CHs

* At 2 years all the neccessary health tests are done so that genetic problems are NOT passed onto future litters

* Join breed clubs

* Research breeding

* Find a breeding mentor

* Find a good stud that has all of the above

* Many good breeders would also have volunteered at a shelter for a time and attended seminars on various aspects of dog ownership

Then they would breed their dogs. Dog breeding well takes a lot of time, money and requires deep knowledge - it's certainly NOT a business.

Someone that crossbreeds:

* Is likely to have bought one purebred to begin with, let's take a Chihuahua as an example, they may have bought this Chi from a pet store or an irresponsible breeder (might even be a 'teacup'!)

* Been looking through the internet and found some cute photos of some 'Chiweenie' (Chi X Dachshund)

* Bought a badly bred Mini Dachshund

* Decided they're going to college soon and will need every penny they get..hmm, how can they make money? Oo! Cross breeding!

* Sticks a 1 year old Mini Dachshund female with a 1.5 year old Chihuahua and hopes for the best

* Doxie pregnant, has puppies..comes on Yahoo during the labour to ask what to do

* Some puppies may die soon to being born

* Sell 'New rare breed!' to unknowledgeable dog owners (true dog lovers would NOT buy a mixed breed from a breeder) for £700

These dogs may not even have come with a pedigree therefore the new owners can't provide one. If one dog was KC registered they believe they have responsibley bred. They didn't show their dogs, they certainly couldn't care less about health testing them. They probably didn't realise dogs may even need C sections, don't know how often you should worm puppies (someone on Y!A the other day had a puppy that seemed to be having seizures due to not being wormed from 2 weeks of age) and are likely to feed their dog food bought from a supermarket.

Of course there are KC dog showers that fail to health test their dogs or inbreed but this is no better than cross breeding (those that do cross breed can easily accidentally inbreed).

Failing to health test your dog is just going to give you sickly, possibley deformed (purebred structures match up, a bulldog and a yorkshire terrier do not) puppies with genetical problems.

No responsible dog owner would purposely cross breed and no responsible person would buy one from such a person.

Of course there is nothing wrong with cross breeds (well, aside from the health problems etc.) they just should NOT be bred. If people want a cross breed dog they should go to the shelter, there are plenty. There are going to be few responsibley bred dogs there (purebreds can be irresponsibley bred) as the best breeders have contracts stating that if at anytime the new owner cannot look after the dog they should get first say on what happens to it (they may take it in). They also have spay/neuter clause which states that they must spay/neuter their dog unless they do certain things in which case it will be lifted. If the owner then goes and breeds the dog the puppies cannot be registered and have been irresponsibly bred.

Myths:

A female dog should have one litter before being spayed

Spaying will make your dog fat

Cross breeds are healthier than purebreds

I myself had a crossbreed, he was £25. He had a mountain of health problems and died aged 11. I now own a purebred Shih Tzu.

EDIT:

I see 2/3 of your links are from a very reliable source..?

Answer 9

You are right, however in spite of the dreadful breeding practises of  experienced breeders, I think that a lot of people want pedigree dogs. Its is much easier and cheaper to breed cross breeds however this would lead to more unwanted dogs and I think that this is one of the reasons why people object. If you are a regular on Yahoo, you will be aware that anyone without experience who wants to breed from their pedigree dog is also shouted down.

I have always been very keen on dog training, consequently  I prefer puppies who will respond. My puppies over a number of years have been German Shepherds, however I have had adult cross breed rescues.

I think that there should be more restrictions on breeding and control over the idiots who are allowed to have dogs. Breeders are often just in it for the money and they don't care about their health or who buys their dogs. Look at the health problems in German Shepherds, mine has had almost everything on the list..

Answer 10

"We all know the inherent health problems of pedigree dogs"

You mean "we all watched a 1 hour sensationalist piece of film & we now know everything about every pedigree breed in the world"

"it's a fact that mongrels are generally healthier than their parents"

Only if both parents were healthy in the first place.

http://www.havehappydogs.com/pedigree-or...

Where's the provinence for that site?

"Knowing the disease incidence in the breed, and the genetic history of the individual, is ultimately important in dog breeding. Having the parental dogs genetically tested for defects known to be troublesome to their breed (or breeds, in the case of mixed parentage) will do as much, or more, than simply choosing dissimilar individuals with functional reproductive tracts. Genetic health must be approached from many angles. Some schemes are effective for the short-term, but disastrous in the long. Others are slow to take effect, but that effect is long-lasting."

I don't think you read the whole of that article!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis

When the opposite happens, and a hybrid inherits traits from their parents that makes them unfit for survival, the result is referred to as outbreeding depression.

I don't think you read the whole of that one either!

With over 200 breeds available there is little need to add yet more dogs to the population and the main problem with mongrels is that they come from uncertain backgrounds, untested dogs and uncommitted breeders.

My 3 neighbours all have rescue dogs - one has hip dysplasia, one has fits & the other is on medication for life for incontinence. I'll stick with my purebreds who live happy healthy lives until they are at least 15 yrs, thanks.

Nothing to do with snobbery, by nature I'm not a gambler & when I buy a dog I want to be as sure as possible that it will fit my lifestyle, be able to fulfil the functions I want and to be fit & healthy.

Answer 11

Such an immotive subject.  I don't know about others, but my beef about crossing breeds is firstly why, when there are surely sufficient 'purebreds' around not to have to do this.  Secondly as I've said so many times before I'm boring myself with it - because although you might get the best of both breeds involved, you just as well might also get the worst of both breeds.  Fact is, unlike a properly researched and bred purebred, it's impossible to know for sure what's going to come out.  And with them odds, it's not for this child!!

Another post on here (honeybel)has outlined this far better than I have time to do right now.  

Grrrrrrr.

PS IF the people breeding these so-called designer dogs were not asking ridiculous prices for what is when all's said and done, a Mutt, I might just have a little more sympathy for what's going on..... but it's a huge might!

To the comment about Bassets below - get real!  My bassets live to be 14 normally and that's an average increase of 3 years on life expectancy some 30/40 years ago.  I could show you my vet bills for my hounds since 1972 (yes, I've kept them!) and they are virtually nothing.  And that's because I've not been breeding cripples, and they simply haven't NEEDED A VET other than for routine things like shots and the occasional tummy upset.  My line has been happy, healthy and does everything a normal dog would expect to do. The makers of this documentary have been banging on about lack of leg, too long ears, too much length for years now, and they don't know what the heck they are talking about. Recent years have seen far too much weight and too much skin on the so-called show basset I admit, but please do not include all breeders in the same breath.  Most of us care deeply about our hounds and want to make sure the breed passes through our hands to the next generation in the best possible condition. These ignorant comments frankly make me sick.

Answer 12

They are more prone to illnesses and diseases. The cross breeds are so "cross breeded" throughout the years that there whole shape is changing and causing more illnesses than should be and arising more hurtful/painful issues surrounding the breeds.  

Answer 13

"All the horror stories in the news"??  You mean the ONE program on the BBC that showed a very narrow and one-sided view on the genetic health of purebred dogs?  Because other than that program, I haven't heard much in the way of 'horror stories'.....

I won't deny that some breeds have serious health issues and that many breeding practices need to change.  But out of 400+ dog breeds in existence worldwide, the BBC's "purebred dogs" program focused primarily on Pugs, Cavaliers, Boxers, Bulldogs and a short spiel about GSD's and Rhodesian Ridgebacks.  

These are breeds with some of the most severe and frequently occurring genetic issues.  They are also breeds who either don't have a "job" (are bred for looks/companionship only) or have such a dramatic breed "split" between working and show lines that the 2 are hardly recognizable as the same breed (such as working vs. show GSD, or working vs. show Setters or Spaniels?)  If that show would have covered working GSD's beyond a 3-second mention....it would have had to illustrate that the working GSD is by design, much more structurally sound and much less prone to genetic problems than the over-angulated, half-crippled wrecks you see in the show ring.  And what about the many other purebreeds whose overall percentage of genetic illnesses is extremely low?  

I have no problem with mixed-breed dogs themselves.  Some of the greatest dogs I've ever known were random-bred mutts from the street.  I DO have a problem with people who DELIBERATELY crossbreed, slap a "cutesy pie" name on the offspring, call it a designer dog, and charge ridiculous amounts of money for the same MUTT puppy you can adopt from any local SHELTER.  

There are NEVER any health tests done on the parents when people deliberately breed mutts.....and having personally seen plenty of small-breed mutts with luxating patellas, heart problems, and plenty of Shepherd and Lab crosses with hip dysplasia and epilepsy....genetic problems CAN be passed down to offspring, even in mixed breed dogs.  Unhealthy parents will produce unhealthy puppies, regardless of breed or mix.  

I also have a problem with people who breed dogs (pure OR mixed) and don't take ultimate responsibility for the pups they produce.  Good breeders enforce spay/neuter contracts.  Good breeders will take their pups back at any time in the dog's life if the owner can't keep it.  Good breeders breed infrequently and keep tabs on the pups they sell, maintaining a line of communication with the dog's owner for the dog's entire life.  

Only a small percentage of dog breeders actually do this....but while I know several purebred breeders who take this kind of responsibility, I have never met someone who "breeds mutts" who does the same kind of thing.  Find me a mutt breeder who actually OFA's their dogs, has their dogs temperament tested, enforces spay/neuter contracts, and will take any pup back for any reason at any time....and I'll kiss a fat man.  

When you go to the local animal shelter and see that a good 75% of the dogs on DEATH ROW are MUTTS.....it's hard to condone the deliberate breeding of ANY dog, especially mixes.  

Again, I'm not denying that there are problems in the "purebred dog community"....and the problems run pretty deep especially in certain breeds.  On the other hand, there are other breeds where genetic health issues are almost TOTALLY unheard of.  

The answer to solving the problems that do exist is indeed complicated....but I do NOT think the proper answer is for everyone to just randomly breed mutts, willy-nilly, in the false hope that they'll all be healthier.....we have a significant pet overpopulation issue in most developed countries and we'd be doing much better if there were far less breeding & a lot more adopting taking place, IMO.    

Answer 14

The crossbred are NOT neccessarily healther or better temperment.

Number 1; Crossbred are BREED in PUPPY mills and Backyard breeders, PLACES THAT HAVE NO CONCERN FOR THE DOGS'S TEMPERMENT OR GENETIC FAULTS.Looks are there NUMBER 1 FACTOR

Number 2. these places breed dogs with aggression, genetic illness and behavioural places.

Number 3; Teacup's are also breed buy puppy mill's and backyard breeders and again, NO concern for HEALTH, temperment or Genetic illnesses & are at an extremely high risk of developing excessive health problems.

Crossbred have as much chance of developing problems associate with both breeds, then purebred dogs!

The only way to avoid these issues is to adopt from a Shelter or Pound as they are guaranteed sound temperment as they had to go through a behavioural assessment.

Answer 15

I would always choose a mixed breed over an inbred pedigree. I'll never understand how people can purposefully breed dogs with physicall defects like pekes, bassets, pugs, bulldogs, shar peis, neo mastiffs, dachshunds etc.

It's cruelty that's been allowed to go on for so long now.

Answer 16

First I'll answer the point from "Moe is Back". (I'll come back to this question when I have more time).

PeTA have been trying to eradicate ALL dogs for some time. Not just the purebred dog, the mongrel too.

There are problems, I agree - but I don't think extinction of all dogs is the answer.

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Answer 17

i didnt read it all but i got what yor talking about

it is fine cross breed dogs as long as they are about the same size and body shape etc, try and make the female dog bigger then the male so there is less likly to be complacations at birth.

cross breeds can be one of the best dogs about.

how do you think thy get new pedigrees such as labradoodles they have to cross breed them to begin with

Answer 18

Well, one issue is that people cross breed dogs to be fit for show-quality, for example having longer ears or shorter noses.

This can cause them to be constantly stepping on their own ears or have breathing problems.

Answer 19

I like crossbreed dogs! Pass me a em...Poodle mixed with a Dalmatian any day! Actually, don't. I'm terrible with dogs :P

I totally agree with what you're saying. Its mean and selfish. But if we over-inbreed, well, the dogs get sick. But if we over cross dogs, the different types will run out. There has to be balance for anything to work. Same here.