What Do Israelis Make Of This?

Question

The Torah forbids jews to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One redeems them. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah. Because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and jews are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as it explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. And the Holy One has warned jews that if we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us terrible punishment.

so does this make the state of Israel ILLEGAL under jewish law, why are jews coming out of exile as they are breaking Jewish law???

Answer 1

The jews have lived in this area for many years so I don't think that they were in exile from here.

I don't think Israel is an illegal state it is legal in the eyes of the world but muslim countries like to say it is not.

Isn't it time muslims and jews learned to co-exist in this part of the world?

Answer 2

as said, those views are only held by a tiny extremist group.

nothing "forbids jews to end the exile" or any such thing. honestly its borderline self-hatred.

Answer 3

See, first you have to actually show that Jewish law states that anywhere- it doesn't.  That is an interpretation followed by a few extremist sects that is rejected by the majority of Jews both in the Talmud  and in the Modern era.  Read the writings of HaRav Kook if you want to see how Orthodox Jews support the state of Israel and how Israel is fully legal under Jewish law.

Note Vayoal Moshe was written by the Satmar Rebbe- who represents only 100,000 Jews world wide.  He is not followed by the other 14 million Jews.

Answer 4

what you have is a snippet of the "3 oaths" argument put forward by certain sects of religious Judaism and some groups like the NK.

The fact is, they rely on one particular intperpretation of text which is argued with by the vast majority of religious Jews -- the interpretation necessary to support their contention is untenable int he light of textual and historical analysis as done by many rabbis and leaders.  This is why the NK and their ilk are such a minority.

On a side note, their agenda is actually to remove the secular state so that the messiah comes and establishes a religious state, removing all non Jews from the area.

Cute, huh.

Answer 5

Lipines- Muslim men are circumcised too.

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I did, it was pretty funny.

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Why thumbs down? Muslim men ARE circumcised.* I was born Muslim, I can prove it (using the instruction introduced above).

Answer 6

I think some people don't know what they are talking about.

It's a done deal. Any religious Jew knows after it was purchased what should transpire.

I don't believe the author of that book is Jewish, tell him to pull down his pants and show me he's circumcised!

Answer 7

its a view point of one person, its not the truth,it does not make the state of israel illegal, israel is here to stay, so live with it.

Although the Satmars and many other Haredi Jews accepted it as a legitimate and even holy book, most Jews, including many Orthodox, have dismissed it as not binding halachically for these reasons.

The "three oaths" on which the argument of the book is based are an Aggadah, which is regarded as not a rule, but rather a poetic saying.

Even if we accept it as a halacha binding today, since the nations have first broken those oaths, the oaths are no longer binding. Moreover, religious Zionists see in Zionism a beginning of the broader redemption through Moshiach, so Zionism is not bringing Moshiach before his time.

Creation of Israel was performed with agreement of nations first at San Remo conference, then by United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181. So, it does not constitute a transgression on oaths.

All fragment in Talmud on oaths is according to Babylonian Sages, while Israeli sages like Resh Lakish disagreed

The halacha in Ketuvot and Maimonides restricts coming only from Babylon

Zionism is a fact from history and to say that the existence of the modern state of Israel is still the same sin as Zionism is wrong, because as of now it is recognized by the nations and the Arabs have the exactly the same citizen's privileges as the Jews, so it is not an exclusive Jewish state.

Answer 8

It is forbidden for Jews to have a homeland before the coming of the messiah, but it's not stated in the Torah, BUT in the Talmud, the book of king David himself!

Hope this answered your question! ~Long live Palestine!~

Answer 9

To solve this an Israeli would say daily כפרה עלייך or כפרתי עלייך may god forgive me, or תמות תחתי כלב מחורבן may my sins be forgiven, seems it works.

Answer 10

Torah doesn't say anything like that. If anything the Torah says to take the land.  Go read it.

First read the Torah before embarrassing yourself any further.  Then read the Nevim and then the Kethuvim.  then read the Mishna.  Not one word forbidding the Israelites to return to Israel.

Answer 11

"Vayoel Moshe" Written by Satmar Grand Rebbe Joel Teitelbaum, zt'l is NOT one of the books of the Torah and is a pack of lies written by the head of one of the most obnoxious sects of judaism  . . . . .

It is not 'written' in Torah that the Jews cannot have a secular government in the land of Israel or live there or have a nation . . .

There is no such Jewish Law and by claiming it, you have committed even a greater "averra" (violation of Jewish Law) by spreading lies (Loshon hora) and you should be ashamed of yourself . . . .

Answer 12

What are your sources for what you say is law? where does it say "jews may not establish a state and army...." in the torah?

From what i know, there is no such thing outlawing making israel a state under jewish law.

Answer 13

I could give you a long, long list of acts forbidden by religious law that people justify with their religion.

Answer 14

It was predicted that Israel would be again in end times....it is a step toward His return

Answer 15

Many anti-Israelis keep reading this propaganda and posting it here as if it were fact.  I doubt it is a Jew posting this.  Jews, in general, know better, and there are no stronger supporters of Israel than the minority of us who are orthodox and who believe in traditional Jewish law.  (I would not be part of that minority, but it is a group I greatly respect).  I have, in my life, known many extremely learned orthodox rabbis and non-rabbis, and have never met one who did not strongly support the state of Israel or who thought its existence was inconsistent with Jewish law.

The belief cited in the original post is actually held by one minor sect of Hasidim, and perhaps by a few other Jews, but is not the way most of those most knowledgeable about Jewish law interpret it.  If the original poster is one of that minority of Jews who has studied Torah and believes in this interpretation, I respect that.  If the original poster is just someone repeating something they got from a website, I hope the above is useful in correcting their mis-impression.

Answer 16

Rammunition,

I for one do not follow what is written in any holy scriptures. What is important is to have a home for Jewish people of the world because of anti Semitism and general despise for my Jewish brethren.

Sincerely,

Ms. Miche ; })

Answer 17

Not true.

The Torah does not forbid us from living in Israel; it is quite the opposite!

What's more; the exile is spiritual, so even those of us who live in Israel are still in exile...

Answer 18

You quote from the writings of the Neturei Karta, a tiny splinter group, which has been condemned by every other Jewish group, from the non-religious to the very religious.

The non-Jewish world should be aware that they speak for no one but themselves--not for the Zionists, not for the anti-Zionists.

They serve only the anti-Semites, like Ahmadinejad.  

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