What are my next five submission holds?

Question

So first I teach these five: Rear naked choke, straight armbar, triangle, guillotine, and ankle lock.

Once my new student has mastered these, what are my next five? I'm thinking: 1) kimura, 2) knee bar 3) omoplata 4) arm triangle and 5) heel hook

What do you think?

Answer 1

Hmmm Most of the time higher quality schools don't teach leg/ankle locks so early, lack of understanding of those techniques leads to easy injury during training.  I would stick to the first four and teach variations of each.  Maybe teach how a tri-angle can become an arm bar and vice versa, the Kimura, Arm triangle and oma plata can all fit into that set as well.  Stay away from knee bars, heel hooks and ankle locks with new students.  In fact most grappling competitions are no longer allowing those holds at the lower levels because they are dangerous.  A lot of folks don't tap from heel hooks until its too late.

Anyway just some opinions

Answer 2

you should teach these next 5 submissions,

1) Ric Flairs figure 4 leglock,

2) Bret Hart's Sharpshooter,

3) Million Dollar man's - Million Dollar Dream,

4) Chris Master's - Masterlock, and

5) and Chris Benoit's -Crippler Crossface

thats how u win a MMA match

Answer 3

the ankle lock is one thing but the heel hook is a very damaging technique specially for someone with limited experience to be doing

if they bend just a little too far, or someone doesn't tap out soon enough because theres the point where everything is fine then everything hurts

the ankle lock i would leave, its nice to have that nice little submission when someone is passing guard and gets pushed back

i would add (i can't remember if this is the technical name for it or not) short arm scissor

its a wrist lock

you grab someone in an arm bar but they bend there arm back upward so you put one leg over there elbow and drive your weight down on there wrist

its a great move if arm barring a much stronger opponent

the knee bar...depends, i personally didn't learn any knee bar till my sensei had taught about 20+ other techniques (heel hook followed it)

some neck cranks would be good to add depending on how your training

i would look into the rack particularly because its easy to get someone in it whos a little less experienced or isnt paying attention when you have side control

you could look at doing an arm bar differently maybe not the straight one, maybe the one where they are in guard and you dont pull them out straight you flex your hips against them while they are on the ground

lastly a shoulder choke because its great to go into from a failed guillotine attempt

my order personally

1:arm triangle (great idea)

2:omoplata (another good idea)

3:Kimura (you could have switched this with the ankle lock)

4:short arm scissor (sorry i cant remember the name)

5: shoulder choke

Answer 4

only real disagreement I have with judo is I wouldn't teach a gogoplata so early, and with beginning grapplers I wouldn't teach anything other than armbars and triangles, and focus on takedowns, sweeps, passes, escapes and transitions, then once they had those down would move to submissions.

Answer 5

Wow, I would not teach a heel hook to anyone slightly new. Unless you want some of your people injured. I am guessing you are talking No Gi. I would do thinks differently with a Gi.

Nor would I have included ankle lock in the first five (I am assuming you are talking about the achilles lock).

I like to combine things in combinations or set ups from position, but following the same sort of patterns you got.

First 5. 1. Rear naked choke, along with 2.Jujigatame from rear mount and top mount.  3. Kimura (from side mount, as well as from guard), 4.Americana which chains well when someone is defending the Kimura (from side control, or even in half guard)  Straight arm bar off of Kimura and Americana defenses. 5. Arm Triangle off of Kimura or Americana defense. Then I would actually thow in Ashi Gatame, or using your heel and leg from Kesa Katame to perform an Americana.

Next 5; Again, I try to stay away from leg or knee submissions for a bit, until they get a little more advanced.

Now I would teach the subs from the guard that chain 1. Triangle. 2.Omoplata, 3.Jujigatame. 4.Gogoplata. 5. Guillotine from guard.

Then another set. From sprawl turtled position. Emphasizing taking the back first, and setting in hooks and body triangle.

1. Guillotine. 2. Anaconda. 3. Darce Choke. 4. Reverse Triangle.

Mainly because I like to keep newbs from falling back into knee bars and the like. Once guys have a solid understanding of the above subs, then they should be about ready .

3 set would be leg subs, which all flow in a combination.

1. Straight knee bar. 2. Achilles lock (ankle lock) 3. Toe Hold, 4. Heel hook. 5. Compression knee bar.

Then from there get into the more advanced cranks and subs. Like crucifixes, neck cranks, spine cranks like the twister, shin cranks, etc.etc.

Just how I would go from a No Gi perspective.

From a Gi perspective there are tons more submissions that I would work on, again with leg submissions being saved for more advanced guys.

Trust me I have seen 6 month newbs damage each other by heel hooks, or falling back into straight knee bars.

Heel hooks are tricky because they don't hurt until something is damaged, hence the reason why you wait until guys a re bit more advanced before teaching them, and in turn using them on new guys, or having them do it to each other.

Just how I would roll with it.