What are signs that a martial arts instructor isn't legit?

Question

For instance, when you go into a dojo/ dojang to check the place out before joining. What are some things to look out for?

Answer 1

Let me turn this on its' head.  What signs should you look for, that a dojo/dojang is legit/worthwhile?  Be aware this is from the perspective of somone who trains for self-defense, not sport, though most of it still applies.

First, What art?  decide what art you are most interested in and visit those places first.

Call them and ask can I come visit and watch a class? Does it have to be a specific class or can i just show up?  Only specific classes or a straight up 'no' sets off my alarms.  A good dojo will invite you to visit any regular class.

When I arrive, I am first going to look at the place.  I don't care about a lot of fancy equipment and expensive stuff, I don't care about trophys and that ilk.  But is it clean, organized, neat, and did I say clean?

Are you greeted warmly by the instructor or a senior student?  did they answer your questions willingly and openly?  Did they invite you to stay and watch or join the class to try it out?

Next, who is teaching when I walk in the door, without warning?  The head instructor, some other instructor, some 12 year old black belt?  I want to train with the head guy.  IF he doesn't teach all classes, is there a schedule of classes where I can choose the instructor.  Kids teaching - alarms.

Then check out this head instructor / dojo owner.  What is his lineage, who taught him, who taught his teacher?  Where did his rank come from, are they reputable, does the age and rank fit? (I really don't care what the rank is.)

Is this how he makes his living, extra income, hobby?  What is his regular job?  Making a living from martial arts is difficult.  Most people teach because they love their art, not for money.

Who are the students and how many are there?  Are there others in my age group, how long have they been training, do they like the class?  Short times and high turnover are a warning as is a lack of other people the same age as you.  Classes should be small enough for you to get personal attention too.

Another big question for me is:  can I come try out a couple classes before I join?  If not, I am out the door.  Would you let me join without trying it?  The answer should be 'no', a good teacher wants quality students who know what they are getting in to.

If I can try it out and I like it, do they require a contract?  Most of the best dojo do not.  They may offer a discount for paying for blocks of time, but I am not interested in a contract.  Good teachers prefer not to have contracts either, that way the rare troublemaker can be  dismissed.  Contracts bind both teacher and student.

If you are interested in a sport art like TKD, BJJ, Judo, or Karate (Kickboxing); does the teacher have competition experience?  Do his/her students compete successfully?  Are there others in your category (age, weight, skill level) to practice with?  This is not a deal breaker unless I am an adult and bigger than the other students.  Be the smallest is just good hard training.

This is just the surface of your question, but it is a good start.

Answer 2

if a sensei is so focused on kids, cuz then they're juz tryin 2 kiss up 2 the parents 2 pay n 4 them 2 make a profit. if a sensei is focused on kids then they arent teaching them how 2 fight, they juz show them the moves w/o actually teaching how 2 defend themselves.  dat was wat my 1st dojo was like, n i neva went back.  it was so easy i got my brwn belt in less than 8 months cuz all u had 2 do was memorize bulls*** moves u could learn off da internet

Answer 3

Ah, the famous McDojo, or Black-Belts 'R' Us.

One bad sign is a major focus on kids.  At a good school the ranking system is often different for kids and adults, and the classes are always separate.  You may get higher ranking kids joining the adult classes or "family" classes, but there should still be separate adult and kids classes.

A HUGE sign is that the school is a belt factory, testing every two months.  In many schools that is normal for low ranks, but the higher you go, the less frequently you test.  At mid-level, I test 3 times a year.  In my school, black belts test in front of our Grandmaster, and go years between tests.

There are a few other things to watch out for (I've included a link), but those are a couple of the most obvious.

Answer 4

Not really sure what you mean in terms of legit.  There are so many different styles as you know, that it really depends on what you are looking for in terms of learning and availability of classes.  I guess if you saw Johnny and Kreese and walked in and heard that Fear and Pain don't exist in this Dojo it would be a bad idea. LOL.  Use common sense though man.  If you don't like what you see, don't join.  There is no right or wrong.

Answer 5

As you shop around-and it pays to shop look at the quality of their students and what they are doing.  If you see little in the way of good balance, speed, and power in their techniques throughout the entire studio I would move on.  That school and instructor may or may not be legitimate but what you really are paying for is what they can teach you and how well they accomplish that.  You should see a definite difference in the level of skill between beginners and intermediate students.  The advance students should be another level higher and that should also be evident.

Some associations or karate organizations have an agenda that if you don't follow you are no longer legitimate or recognized by them.  Politics and personalities can and do sometimes play a role in all this.  Some organizations and or associations don't recognize people of another organization or look down their nose at them even though it is the same style.  In my forty years of doing martial arts I have see a lot of this and also belonged to some organizations or associations that recognize you and your school and students one day and not the next.  The exchange or payment of money can even sometimes have an impact on this so shop around and choose the school that best fits your needs and desires.  The quality will be evident, they will produce a good student that is knowledgable and skilled, who is respected among their peers.

Answer 6

Most legit instructors have a "chain of instructors" you can follow.  What I mean by that, is that when you talk to him ask him where he studied and who he studied under.  Then ask who the founder of the Martial art is and when was it founded.  These are things that you can go home and follow up on, on the internet.  If he says he is the founder, or he studied under the founder, or it was just founded 5 years ago, then chances are it is a B.S. martial art.  Most legit Martial Arts have been around for a long time.

Answer 7

Actually anyone can advertise open a club put out a sign and claim to teach how to defend yourself and even create ranking levels for what they teach and be legal .As long as they use ONLY the word(s) karate or kung fu or kempo or tkd or jujutsu or  martial arts without saying which style of karate kung fu etc etc they are still legal .It's when they use the name of a style of which they know nothing or very little that they are commiting fraud

No kata?He will say kata is useless not that he doesn't know any.Do these clubs exist?Yes lots of them.

Here is the spot a MCDOJO list.

Instead of focusing on sparring, the class is mostly divided into practicing kata/forms, one-steps, board breaks, etc..

The school or instructor promotes the idea that his school and/or style is the ultimate best in the world, or that cross training in another form of martial arts is 100% unnecessary.

If the school or instructor forbids entering tournaments, or if tournaments are restricted to specific styles or associations.

If the idea of take-downs or wrestling is never addressed, or if "anti-grappling" techniques are taught.

If the test for belt advancement consists mostly or entirely of memorization and making your form & one-steps look pretty

If board breaking has a heavy emphasis, or is taught to be an indicating to how well you would fight, or is used as a supplement to full contact fighting.  [What is wrong with this?]

If the school has too many belts, or made up belts (such as camouflage belts)

If the school insists on long contracts and or uses collection agencies for late or missed payments.

If there are expensive clubs that you must join in order to learn or participate in various clinics or seminars, such as the "black belt club", or "masters club"

If the school owns an actual franchise, such as "Karate for Kids" or "Tiny Tigers"

If the school uses a pitch book to get you to join or to convince you to sign your kids up

If the self-defense techniques that are taught aren't at full speed or contact, or if the school is insistent only on one way of doing it

If the equipment (gear/uniforms/weapons) costs too much and/or is only ordered through the organization

If testing and monthly fees are excessive, for any reason

If the instructor is a master, 6th or 7th degree under 40 8th or 9th degree under 55.

If the instructor's credentials seem sketchy or are non-existent.

If the instructor proclaims to be a master of many arts, and is also extremely young.

If the school advertises that the grandmaster of the style regularly teaches there

If the school has many students, such as over 100, or if there are many black belts

If once reaching black belt students are encouraged to go start their own school or consider teaching

If ground-fighting is offered, it's exclusive to club members (which usually have a high fee) and/or not allowed until a high rank

The instructor rarely works out with the students and has his assistants do most or all of the teaching

If they teach weapons like the sai and nunchaku as a form of self-defense

If they are a Chinese martial art and use karate belts

If they glorify or try to imitate the Samurai or ninja.

Answer 8

Promises that you will become a black belt in a set amount of time...

Supposedly teaching more than one style and saying they are all the same...

Trophies everywhere, which emphasizes the competitive aspect at the expense of the spiritual nature of the arts...

The teacher, sensei or sifu not being able to trace his or her lineage...

Answer 9

If you ask who their teacher is but they keep dodging the question, that is a warning sign.  I read in Black Belt mag once, as I was thumbing through, that anyone who is a legitimate instructor should be able to point to a lineage, and give you contact information on who trained them.

When I used to do Karate, the instruction I received was good with the incidence of one "dojo bully" but he was eventually dealt with and thrown out.  The instruction was competent, but we did not practice enough.  As far as their lineage is concerned, they learned from someone who ran a school in a nearby town, while he himself, served in the military and was stationed in Okinawa, where he studied Goju Ryu.

The instruction was legit, but the standards were too low for comfort.  I was well on my way to a blue belt with barely, I felt, any improvement in my overral coordination and power, and I was 12!  Even at 12 I knew better!

Instinct told me, that 2 days a week simply would not cut it.

The point of this story is that, its a headache.  You find someone who will make you practice, but their lineage is questionable.  You will find someone with a legit lineage of teachers but they are just lazy as h**l.

Its very hard to find a school that has both a legit lineage, and they will make you work.  Most martial arts schools are ultimately a business, and part of the reason the standards of practice are so low throughout this country is because training for 5 to 6 days a week would scare off the majority of customers.  In east asia, even paying money, they know what they're getting in for and they will work hard without moaning or complaining.  Here in america though, the attitude is "I'm paying for it, I can train however the h**l I want...."

The way some instructors solve this problem is by having a flexible schedule; 2 mandatory days, and 3 voluntary, that way sincere students can train 5 days a week problem is, use of the dojo ends up costing an arm, no pun intended.  The way teacher Hidetaka Nishiyama has solved the problem of sincere or insincere students, is that he hold 5 a.m. on the mark classes.  Not sure about the details but I believe they're free.

His thinking is, that if a student will get up to train at 5 a.m., then they are sincere about learning, and mastering, Karate.  True to form, the numbers of people in his free 5 a.m. class I've heard is often very small, even though they don't have to pay for it, although I'm not sure.  Arnold Swarzenegger, back in his bodybuilding days, had a similar idea.

Because he was a champion weight lifter, one of the ways he had to make money in the U.S. before he made it big of course, was work as a personal trainer.  The way he would test the sincerity of people, and how serious they were about bodybuilding, was by holding 5 a.m. sessions.  Not sure if Nishiyama ever met the actor turned governor, but its possible he got the idea from him.

Hey, you can't argue with that logic; if a person is sincere, then they will get up.  If they really want to train that badly then they will get up, if they don't, they won't, I suppose for some of us that narrows it down some.

Point overstated, watch out for any instructors that are dodgy as to who their teacher was.  Anyone who trained under a legitimate teacher, should be able to give you their name, adress and yes contact information.  And their teacher should be able to do the same thing, going as far back as the oldest one who is still alive.

If that is what you have to do, then do it.  At least try to confirm if the oldest teacher of that given style is still alive.

As a general rule, most Shotokan Karate organizations are reliable, because both Kanazawa and Nishiyama have trained literally hundreds of black belts.  And they have encountered all kinds of people.

good luck.

Answer 10

Promises about a "time table" for promotion before you join the school.

("You can get your black belt within x months.")

Fast promotions.

Testing fees.

A school where just about everybody has a high rank.

A school where black belts and white belts attend the same class.

(There should be a class that teaches the basics and a class for advanced students.)