What came first the universe or the laws that govern it?

Question

and what was the point of laws when there was no one around to understand them , ( in the beginning.)

Answer 1

Both happened at the same instant.  Laws are not for individuals.  Wouldn't it sound stupid if laws were made only for those who can understand them?  Everything in the Universe (except perhaps, man) understand and obey laws.  (Men are more keen on breaking them).

Answer 2

If you want a rational, reasoned, and scientific approach that seeks the answer to this question I would recommend reading up on string/brane theory and how it is applied to cosmology.

If you want a purely speculative, intuitive approach pick one of the many religions.

Answer 3

the laws governing it  its not a matter of understanding the laws it is physics

Answer 4

they arrived at the same time. the laws are as much universe as anything else. before there was mass there could not have been the laws that mass must follow. though once mass existed as mass is, then it must follow those laws by the nature of its being.

there is no point of laws. the laws just are. it is the way things interact. the laws as we know are just us figuring out the way stuff interacts.

there is no more point to the laws now then in the beginning, though because of the laws we are able to exist as we are know, interact with the universe as we do now, and also use our knowledge of the laws for our own ends.

but technically the universe did not really come into being so much, and yet it wasn't always around, because time is also a component of universe and there was a point where there was no time, no space since the universe was packed as tight as is possible. in this case do you still say there was universe? well yes and no. was the universe around forever? well, yes and no, if it comes from a point where there was no time, then there is no before, no forever, no amount of time, no size no distance, was something there? yes and no.

Answer 5

both at the same time...

Answer 6

co-arising and co-dependant.

Conscious intent moves potential to matter, mater to life, life to consciousness, consciousness to consciousness.

Answer 7

Laws are as eternal as the space in which universes appear and disappear in accordance with those very laws.

The assumption that there was a beginning to life is a false one. It is beyond doubt that a universe can come to be only through the operation of a pre-existent law, and how can a law lie dormant or inoperative in infinite space and eternal time to take effect, to become operative at a particular point in time for the first time?

It is not only unreasonable but unthinkable, and becomes, literally 'infinite arrogance' to further hold that that one-off - again, in infinite space and time - is precisely this one universe. Cosmology and cosmogany, far from encompassing all, are pitiable in their infinitely restricted view,taking only this one in an infinity of universes into consideration - it is like, having come across a pebble on a beach, you refuse to even consider that there are other pebbles on that beach, just because you 'have no proof' - and, moreover,unlike a beach, space is infinite.

Answer 8

I would say they both began at the same time. Without the laws, there would be no universe to govern. And without the universe, there is no need for laws.

"what was the point of laws when there was no one around to understand them"

I don't think there is a point to the laws of the universe. They just are. But without them absolutely nothing would exist.

Answer 9

Part 1: There are only six possibilities. (a) The universe and the laws that govern it came into existence at the same time, (b) The laws preceded the universe, (c) the universe preceded the laws, (d) The universe exists without the laws -- there are no laws governing the universe, (e) There is, in reality, no universe, just the laws, and (f) There is neither a universe or laws that govern it.

I personally favor (e) or (f). Our concept of the universe is a mental manifestation of our understand of the laws that govern it. Regardless of whether we understand the universe or even accept its existence, reality will go on.

Part 2.  The laws are absolute. Just because  one doesn't understand the law of gravity (for example), doesn't allow (or make them) go floating off into space -- the molecules of his body don't go flying apart due to the lack of any cohesive attraction. Therefore the laws exist regardless of our understanding of them.  

Answer 10

Laws (of physics) don't have to have anyone to understand them in order to exist. For instance, you could argue that what's the point of, say, radioactivity, when only the dinosaurs existed because they couldn't understand particle theory? But it's still there.

I suppose what we call "laws" are really only "truths", which are always correct and always apply in our universe. The word law indicates that you can disobey it, but are not allowed to. With a law of physics, it is not a question of "may", but "are able to".

So, in conclusion, the laws which govern the universe were created at the same time; one did not cause the other. Perhaps they are, to a certain extent, the same thing? Besides, is this philosophy or physics? Do I need to get out more? These questions may never be answered.

Answer 11

I guess the same time.

The universe started out as a singularity of enormous heat and density.

The laws of physics work only up to a point.  Once you get to the actual beginning of the singularity, or try to guess what was "before" it, the laws of physics break down.  

You get to a quantum level at that point, and we currently don't understand things at that level.  And they certainly don't follow the laws of physics

Answer 12

The universe and the "laws" (necessities) that govern it are inseparable. Those "laws" are formulations of how the universe works. But the universe is not the subject and the "working" its activity; the universe *is* the working -- it is a *process*.

As to your second question: the so-called "laws" of the universe are not laws in the legal sense, which can be broken or adhered to. The "laws" of the universe can't be broken: they are *necessities*.