What do feminists want? Equal rights or extra rights? Don't they already have equal rights?

Question

Obama won because he's more qualified for the job, get over it

Answer 1

Usually feminists want extra rights. They want women to have all of the rights that men have but they want special allowances to be made for the fact that they are women.

For example, a feminist may want women to have the right to serve on the front line in a war, but they would also want special allowances to be made in the draft for Mothers which would not be available to men who are Fathers.

They also fight for female affirmative action to allow women into traditionally male roles but they are against affirmative action for males to get into female roles.

Equally, feminists often want segregation when it works in their favor, but not when it works against them. For example, if my local country club were to build a "men only gym" they would take it to court under anti-discrimination laws, but if same said gym were to try and open up its "women only gym" to men your typical feminist would try to prevent them from doing so.

Feminists don't want equality, they want women to have all the rights of men, and then some.

Answer 2

Yes, Woman have a right to shut up and fix my dinner...

Answer 3

We're over the Obama thing. If anything, we're thrilled about it; very few people here supported Hillary.

Feminists want equal rights. That's the end of it. Any woman who wants more than her share just because she's a woman cannot call herself a feminist.

Answer 4

Women do NOT have equal rights. Look it up. The Equal rights Amendment was never passed.

Umm, The Undertaker, Lyanthya was simply, and, unfortunately, demonstrating the common perceptions from a large portion of our society.

You failed to mention that the Mexico City article reported that the law was passed in order to combat domestic violence. I think that is a rather important piece of information to conveniently leave out. According to this article, 75% of murdered woman are killed by their husbands. 75%!! While I do not agree with this law, I feel that it is representative of what a huge problem domestic violence is. It is refective of the dire need for attention to this issue.

I find it interesting that Lyanthya's opinions are "biased rants" while yours are "proof"

Your "proof" is searching for articles that represent your opinion. The opposite can be done as well. I found several articles that support Lyanthya's "biased rants" as well but I'm not going to bore people by inserting several websites into my answer. We all know how to search. Rather than searching for support that only represents what you WANT to represent why don't you research all sides of the issue? Then maybe your opinion won't be so biased.

Edit: The Undertaker says, "I'd like to say first that I only argued laws and facts here." and "Short answer: feminists have both equal rights and extra special rights."

Not sure where you get your facts from but WOMEN DO NOT HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS!!!! This is a fact. Why is it that you insist otherwise? And to answer your question, no, I do not feel the law passed in Mexico City is the way to combat the problem. I said the first time that I disagreed with the law. This is a complicated issue, there is no aboslute way to combat the problem. Unfortunately, many issues require trial and error before a solution is found. The severeness of this law is an example of how vast this problem is and how frustrating it is searching for the answer.

The Asker asked, "Don't they already have equal rights?"

Nope.

Edit: Wow! The Undertaker, you sure are good at putting words in people's mouths. Where in my answer did I say that I was a feminist? You're assuming I am because of my answer? Also, because of my answer, you assume that I think women are always the victims? Men don't matter to me? How can you jump to such conclusions? I love, love, love men! This is why people like you are not taken seriously-because you put words in others mouths and come to your own conclusions! You say, "And people still talk about the Equal Rights Amendment." Yeeeess we do. Why do you minimize it so? It was never passed! Women do not have equal rights! Unfortunately, you have gotten off track with what the original question was. You want proof of what Lyanthea said? Look around you! It's everywhere. And if you say you don't see it then you're choosing not to. Sam did some great research. If you still need more let me know. I'll get to it right after I have s*x with my boyfriend. Oh, that's right- men aren't important to me. Riiight

Edit: What are you talking about, The Undertaker????? Where did I say you were evil and what did I say about the UAE???? It is a complete waste of time to communicate with ignorant, confused people such as yourself. I'm done with you. Peace!

Answer 5

Equal opportunities. Not only do women world-wide not have equal rights (in Saudi they can't even drive) but there is still many inequities in the US: btw: This question is asked nearly every day-try to get a bit more interesting..

In the US Feminism still needs to exist as we have right-wing nutcases running the country trying to dismantle our right to birth control and abortion as well as limiting sexual education to the point that our teen birth rates have increased again.

In the US only a few women are represented politically by other women-regardless of the reasons-it sure looks unfair. So I don't see women being wildly successful in the political arena. Why are people against women leaders? Sexism.

US women still make a lot less money than men do-regardless of the reasons-it still sucks. I'm sure it's great if you're like me and you're middle-class but it is not fun for the women and children in the US who make up the majority of those living in poverty. Ask them-I don't think they'd agree with your assessment that they have the same rights. In spite of the equal pay act of 1963-women are still discriminated against in pay and when or if they become pregant they are still demoted or fired (there is also a pregnancy act that is not enforced very often and is badly needed to be).

Both US men and women suffer high rates of violence yet imprisoning more and more of our male population hasn't changed our violent culture. Feminists seem to be the only ones who seem concerned about rape of both men and women as well as the exploitation of young men and women. For some reason -most US men laugh about male rape and sexual exploitation as though it was a joke. I don't see anything equal about how rape and assault are handled in our country.

Even though more men are the primary caretakers for their families and more women work outside the home than a number of decades ago-men are still treated like lepers if they primarily work inside the home and women are chastised for working outside the home and "abandoning" their children or are chastised for "only" caretaking their children and home. Not exactly a win-win situation and the result of societal sexism.

Sure looks like feminism is needed for all of those people-glad you're doing so well without it. Why are people against equal rights? Why do you think people are sexist? They believe men deserve more than women and want it to stay that way.

Answer 6

Um, Lyanthya, I would like to point out a few fallacies in your arguments and unlike your biased rants, I've got proof:

1) If a man doesn't have s*x, he can be arrested:

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnou...

2) If a man gets angry, he can be arrested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in_4QhWQa...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk-RCM8b3...

3) If a woman gets pregnant, she can opt out of it. But if she is 'irresponsible', it is the man's pocket which gets emptier. Much emptier. 'Considered irresponsible' is different and much less sexist than being 'held responsible' for a kid you never wanted. What about paternity tests held without the woman's consent? Doesn't happen. Why? All a man wants to do is verify that he's not paying through his nose for a kid that wasn't his in the first place, right? No, according to lawmakers and women, he's trying to avoid responsibility.

4) Actually, I find the opposite to be true. People assume fathers are more terrible parents than mothers, and say women have the nurturing instinct men will never have. Don't believe me? Attend a child custody proceeding.

http://www.childrensjustice.org/stats.ht...

http://www.breakingthescience.org/SJC_GB...

Quite astonishing custody stats for a woman who is a bad parent, huh?

5) People actually listen to a woman fighting for rights no matter how butch she looks or how L*****n she is. If a man stands up for his rights, this is what happens:

http://www.ukmm.org.uk/suppression/issue...

Last time I checked, he wasn't considered 'noble'.

6) If a man is stalked by a woman, people will laugh at him when he says that, while a woman suspecting stalking will get all the sympathy, support and protection in the world.

7) sam, last time I checked, it was impossible for men to make progress in women-dominated environments too. If this is not true, why the aversion to men in day care?

8) sam, how about this:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;... (Read doodlebugjim's examples)

sam, doodlebugjim isn't twisting anybody's words and nor am I. We're stating facts. And the question is about legislation and rights, so why would you answer it if you didn't mean that what you listed should be fixed by legislation and rights, Lyanthya? Never fear anyways, because legislation has not only fixed things, but it has turned the tables on men too.

And here are a few more you feminists can dig into:

1) If men avoid marriage, they're 'afraid of commitment and scared of strong independent and smart women.' When it's actually the whole host of unfair laws like VAWA/Domestic Violence Act, sexist divorce judges and other things that we actually fear. We don't like jail, you know.

2) Men can't use elevated testesterone or complain of ause to get a lighter sentence. In fact, the judge will give the same sentence, only with a laugh. Women can use the ever questionable Battered Woman Syndrome and PMS to get very light sentences and even an aquittal in some cases after bringing tears to the judge's eyes. Take Andrea Yates and Mary Winkler for example.

Bottom line: If men commit crimes, they need punishment and isolation. If women commit crimes, they need help and sympathy. At least that's what people think.

3) Title IX is clearly unfair to male athletes:

http://www.siue.edu/ALESTLE/library/SPRI...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/wr...

4) Women get lighter tests in firefighting and police, when they're going to be chasing and rescuing the same people as men:

http://www.chicagopolice.org/recruitment...

5) Here's how unfair DV in India gets:

http://mynation.net/study-report-dvact.h...

http://mynation.wordpress.com/2007/12/24...

6) http://www.iwf.org/news/show/19778.html

7) I'm not going to waste any more time than I already have over the wage gap myth, DV stats, 1 in 4 and the rest. Read my answers to these:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;... (Read comments too)

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;... (Read my links and answer)

It's hard to trust feminists who hold a club behind their back ready to hit men and claim we have the club to hit them. A long way to go it is. For men. As long as liars continue to brainwash people, the job remains tough.

Short answer: feminists have both equal rights and extra special rights. The only thing left is mass murder of men, which can be the only reason feminism are still strutting about the USA.

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EDIT: I'd like to say first that I only argued laws and facts here. I agree the 75% stat is astonishing, but is this the way to combat it I ask you? It isn't about the need for rights, but the right itself, which could land a lot of innocent men in jail. Lawmakers, by equating refusal to have s*x with murder, are making domestic violence laughable, which is sad.

Maybe people would listen to feminists more often if they commented on the facts listed instead of what is said about other users.

And sam, did you skip the part about lighter sentences and aquittal? I think so. Can you read? Words have been put in my mouth more often than you can imagine, otherwise I wouldn't be here doing what I'm doing.

I've shown you laws sexist against men in so-called patriarchies like India and Mexico. Maybe iluvian can show me some laws which support Lyanthya's way of thinking? Any laws sexist against women in a feminist country? You seem pretty confident iluvian. Let's see your proof. Rants are biased if there is no proof. I'm the one with the proof here. And I've proved Lyanthya's claims to be wrong (with proof), and my claims which I listed later on to be right? It's what is called a double whammy.

And the laws I've listed are just too much for anybody to say feminists haven't got many special extra rights for women that are sexist against men. The discrimination against men is astounding, especially in the USA. And people still talk about the equal rights amendment.

iluvian, if feminists spent time researching both sides of the issue, then maybe their opinion wouldn't be so biased. I'm always biased, and you're always right, just because you're feminist. It is wrong to think that way in the first place. Why do you think women are always the victims? Men just don't matter to you feminists do they?

EDIT: iluvian, stats are different from rights. 75% is a stat. The law is a right. There is a difference. The stats show women disadvataged, but the rights are extremely sexist against men.

How easy it is for a woman to say "I asked my husband for s*x and he didn't give it, so lock him up." The police will isten to her. They have to. They don't need any proof except word of mouth. And this is supposed to be domestic violence. Do you know how many women are guilty of this same 'crime'?

Um, iluvian, this question was about feminists, so I answered regarding feminist countries. And you're yet to give me an answer to why you think stats showing women disadvantaged are the same as less rights for women?

USA has a '1 in 4' rape stat with pretty strong laws. India has a '1 in 6' with pretty strong laws. Both are false stats, but the laws exist.

So stats aren't the same as rights, and you're not doing yourself any favours by parroting the same thing about equal rights instead of directly answering my questions. Where's your proof. IS THERE ANY LAW SEXIST AGAINST WOMEN IN A FEMINIST DEMOCRACY? You seem to think women don't have equal laws, so let's hear about these laws, come on.

I'M always biased, I'M always bigoted, I'M always sexist. And all this for telling the truth. I must be pretty powerful.

I've got the proof here, iluvian. You don't post anything except rants about how evil I am. Why don't offer proof of your own? Remember the question is about feminists, and the UAE is not feminist, so laws there do not count.

Answer 7

In the West they certainly have equal rights. They also have rights that men don't have e.g. in domestic violence cases, most notably VAWA in the US.

They also enjoy special allowances made for them in many areas of life e.g. positive discrimination at work, more lenience when they commit a crime, special Women's Studies courses at university, special shows for women on TV and Radio (e.g. Loose Women, Women's Hour etc).

Feminists also seem to have the right to spout bigoted nonsense without having to produce a valid argument to back it up. All they need to do is get extremely emotional or call you a misogynist and that ends the debate. Its crazy that a movement based on ranting nonsense has managed to get such a stranglehold on society. The fact that many feminists will tell you that 'we still have a long way to go' in the West just shows you exactly what sort of deluded fanatics we are dealing with.

Edit

I note that Lyanthya seems to want to legislate to control our opinion of other people's actions; Orwell would recognise this sort of thinking immediately.

Edit

Re legislation: it is already against the law to make women feel bad about themselves in several countries that I know of e.g. UK and India. The major problem with feminists today is that they simply don't know when to stop. They don't seem to be able to differentiate between a punch in the face Vs an insult, or regretting having had s*x with a guy Vs rape. Its incredible that they get away with it, but they do time after time in country after country e.g. India's new Domestic Violence Act under which men can be jailed for insulting their wife or any female relative.

Answer 8

Radical feminism is about inequity and it's everywhere, seriously. People think this is some non-existent conspiracy theory but like it or not, one of the worst dangers in mankind's existence has occurred.

Put the television on. It's in every other commerical and movie and program.

Go to any school or university. Women's programs get more funding yet produce lesser results.

Visit any court. The law always favors females.

My friends and I used to laugh about this in junior high (1997). We used to poke fun at radical feminists and that their mad dreams would never come true. Well, the joke is on us.

Answer 9

actually we don't have equal rights when it comes to maternity laws, which leads to women of child bearing age being discriminated against in job applications

we also have a lot less social rights, some of which lyanthya has pointed out

women still often find it hard to progress in male dominated environments, due to bias and hostility against them:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4163...

doodlebug: i doubt lyanthya wants to legislate against these. another example of an anti-feminist twisting someone's words. however, as long as these attitudes predominate in society there will be feminists seeking to rebalance these attitudes.

undertaker:

"7) sam, last time I checked, it was impossible for men to make progress in women-dominated environments too. If this is not true, why the aversion to men in day care?"

this may well be true:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/a...



although this is an extremely specific example and there are plenty of men in other 'female occupations' such as nursing

anyway this is all the MORE reason to break down gender roles!

"8) sam, dig in this:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;... (Read doodlebugjim's examples)

Yes, that’s one example of a very oddly reported story > I remember it. However, it’s not correct to say that violent men / male teenagers are never given help instead of being thrown in jail. (Even in jail there are so many home comforts and rehabilitation measures that some men prefer to be in jail than outside, at least in the UK.)

“sam, doodlebugjim isn't twisting anybody's words and nor am I. We're stating facts. And you don't have ANY proof for your claims, Lyanthya.”

Yes, he is. Can you read? Lyanthya never said anything about implementing laws against these things. Doodlebug put those words into her mouth. It’s not the first time I’ve seen this tactic used by anti-feminists on this board. You should all become politicians. As for proof for her claims, you can see them every day, both on this board and in the outside world.

edit

undertaker > Well, if we’re talking globally here, let’s just have a look at who has it worse.

1. The WHO estimates that around 140 million girls and women are living with the consequences of female genital mutilation (FGM). Procedures can cause severe bleeding, shock, infections, death, open sores, injury to nearby tissues, problems urinating, cysts, infertility, childbirth complications and newborn deaths. The procedure has no medical benefits and its performed solely for ridiculous religious reasons regarding chastity. It is internationally recognised as a human rights violation. FGM is carried out amongst immigrant communities in western countries.



http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheet...  

2. India? There are 2500 reports of bride burnings in India a year. New wives are routinely doused in petrol and set alight by their new husbands or other family members following failed dowry demands.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9608/18/bride.b...

Authorities often turn a blind eye to domestic violence.

Women are supposed to be equal under Indian law. However in effect they often have little control over their own lives. Laws regarding inheritance are poorly enforced so women do not generally own property in their own names. (These laws only came into effect in 2005.) Indian women are routinely subject to harassment in the workplace. And because minorities are allowed their own rules under Indian law, Muslim women do not enjoy the same rights when it comes to marriage and divorce as Hindu women. (I understand that there has recently been an attempt by Indian feminists to give Muslim women the same rights when it comes to divorce as men – I don’t know if this has actually been enacted yet, I doubt it.)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_In...

http://arpita.instablogs.com/entry/littl...

3. In Pakistan (and doubtless many other countries) a woman may be thrown into jail or stoned to death for being raped. Four adult male witnesses ‘of a trustworthy nature’ must testify in court that the woman was raped for an accusation of rape to hold up. (How often would four adult men ‘of a trustworthy character’ stand by and watch a woman be raped?)



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/sep...

4. In Malta, Oman, Nicaragua and Chile abortion is illegal in every circumstance, even to save the woman’s life. In Angola, Antigua, Cuba, Armenia, the Czech Republic, the Faroe Islands, Georgia, Portugal, Slovakia, the Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Kenya, Malawi, Mongolia, Morocco, Jamaica, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Kuwait, Malaysia, Papua New Guinea, Sao Tome and Principe, the Seychelles, South Africa, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Honduras, the Maldives, the Marshall Islands and Nauru, abortion may also be illegal to save the woman’s life, depending on the time of gestation. In these countries a higher value is placed on the life of a foetus than a grown woman. Many more countries do not allow abortion if pregnancy would result in severe and permanent physical problems to the woman, or if the woman was raped.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_la...



5. In many countries worldwide women have no legal authority, their rights being placed in the hands of a male relative.

6. Millions of girls and women are forced into marriage every year. They do not have control over their own bodies or their own lives.

7. Mexico? Violence against women is endemic and the authorities turn a blind eye.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=34338

“Over the past 13 years, more than 400 women have been murdered or “disappeared” in Ciudad Juárez. In a number of these cases, the women had been mutilated or severely beaten before they were killed. Some had even had their nipples cut off, or their torsos were dismembered.”



http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/06/26/m...  

Amnesty puts the figure at 370 murders and 400 missing women over a period from 1993 to 2005. This is just in one city.

Rape victims are denied abortion (even though it is in effect legal). Authorities turn a blind eye to rape and sexual violence both within and outside the home.



http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/02/23/m...  

Do you really think the Mexican police will lock up a man for refusing his wife s*x when they won't lock him up for beating and raping her? What planet are you living on?

8. Guatemala? At least 1000 women murdered in five years, their bodies turning up bearing signs of torture and mutilation. Some have 'death to b*****s' scrawled on them. Who cares? Not the authorities. They simply say maybe she was a prostitute, or was killed by her boyfriend. This seems to justify torture and murder.

A rapist can escape charges by marrying his victim. (Or by killing her.) Domestic violence cases can only be prosecuted if the victim shows bruises 10 days later. Sexual harassment isn't even a crime. It doesn't seem as though women have many rights in this country.



http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/...  

9. Marital rape isn't even a crime in many countries.

10. Saudi Arabia? Women can't vote, testify in court (unless a personal matter where no men were present) or drive or cycle on public roads. Women make up only 5% of the workforce. Before this year women were not allowed to enter hotels without a chaperone. Now hotels must inform the local police station if they have female guests. Women have no autonomy or economic independence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_right...



I could go on and on and on. The truth is that worldwide women are subject to much more discrimination, harassment and gender based violence than men.

BTW > The question was about rights? Yes it was. You clearly don't think social rights are important.

Do you mean this link?



http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,238...



Yes, a perfect example of sexism in the workplace. Oh wait ... it applies to both men and women. Actually it will probably affect women more as they will be expected to have children and will probably lose their jobs as a result.

Want to know about sexism in Iran?

A woman's life is worth half that of a man's.

A woman's testimony in court is worth half that of a man's.

A man can have many wives.

A young girl may be married off to a much older man by her father.

Women must keep themselves veiled in public.

Women must get their husband's permission to work.

Women must get their husband's permission to leave the country.

Women may not register to run for president.



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa...  

What happens when people try to peacefully protest against women’s oppression? They are imprisoned without charge, without access to lawyers. They are beaten. Their family members are beaten.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.a...  

We can carry on posting links and pointing out injustices around the world all day.

As for proof for Lyanthya's claims? Here's some:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

http://media.www.thepenn.org/media/stora...

“New research has shown that people accept and even reward men who get angry, but view women who lose their temper as less competent.”

http://current.com/items/88

Answer 10

How many American presidents have been women?  When the number of female presidents reflects the actual population demographics, we'll let you know.

In the meantime, there's work to be done.

*And the last time George Bush won and look what a deceitful, lying, manipulative, arrogant, greedy, stupid loser turkey he turned out to be.

Answer 11

wow, slim- you can't even come up with your own answers- pathetic!

Equal rights.  And I agree, in the west we already have (mostly) equal rights.  And I have NEVER been discriminated against on the basis of my gender, the very opposite in fact.  Yet I know men who have been.  There are some places in the world that do discriminate against women, and put them down horribly, and the feminist movement is really only just starting up there... And I really support it.

But here, (in Oz) I am quite happy with the way things are now.

Edit: Why so many thumbs down?

As to firefighting tests, in Oz, a woman must comply to the same requirements as a man- I have heard some say that it is sexist, and designed to keep women out of the job.- Yet, it isn't.  When being rescued from a burning building, I don't care about the gender of my rescuer- but I do care that they are physically strong enough to get me out.  It is simply that men are (generally) physically stronger than women, and are therefore more likely to pass the stringest physical tests than women.  To be a fire-fighter, you need to be very strong- for a reason.  It is irresponsible to allow ANYONE lesser standards based on their gender or other considerations to get into this job when the cost could be someone's life.

Answer 12

Seems like women are best qualified to answer this one.

Answer 13

In theory, we have equal rights, at least in the West.  In practice, we don't.  And socially, we are certainly not treated equally.

If a woman has s*x, she's a s l u t. If a man has s*x, he's a stud.

If a man gets angry, he's assertive. If a woman gets angry, she's a b*tch.

If a woman gets pregnant, she's irresponsible. If a man gets a woman pregnant, she's irresponsible.

If a woman raises a child alone, she's selfish and a terrible mother. If a man raises a child alone, he's noble.

If a woman stands up for her rights, she's a fat man-hating L*****n. If a man stands up for his rights, he's a hero.

If a woman is stalked by a man, she must have led him on. If a man is stalked by a woman, she's a crazy psycho b*tch.

Etc., etc

Answer 14

they want respect. such as when a man says a women is not as good as men at sports. or how some men treat women as an object rather than a human being.

Answer 15

Feminist believe in the emasculation and eradication of men by any means necessary, it has nothing to do with equality of rights. Men who embrace such ideology are simply advancing hatred toward their own gender.

Answer 16

no pay rates are still far from equal. and why do women have to pay much more for clothes and hair cuts etc...  Just want equal not extra