What do other christian women think of these parts of the bible?

Question

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

and

1 Timothy 2:11-15

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

and

I Corinthians 11:9

For indeed man was not created for woman sake, but woman for man’s sake

I am quite resentful to god for having these in the bible

Answer 1

I'm not resentful toward God.  I just see it as a product of its time and the cultural expectations of the author's day.

So, I'm happy to work at a church with women pastors.

Answer 2

I find it hard to reconcile the teachings of Jesus Christ with the teachings of Paul.  Did Jesus ever say anything like this?  Not in my opinion.  I follow the words of Christ - I am a Christian, not a disciple of Paul.

That's my opinion, and I accept that not many people will agree with me.  

Answer 3

im not resentful to God

i just see it as thats what was expected in those days

Answer 4

The bible was written by mysogonistic men

Answer 5

Hi Rach, here's another of Paul's teachings - Galatians 3:28 - "Because all of you are one in Messiah Jesus, a person is no longer a Jew or a Greek, a slave or a free person, or a *male or a female*

To answer your question: If you see it's written to the CORINTHIAN church where those who gathered to worship God were at least disruptive - if you read from the first chapter of Corinthians  you will see the type of people Paul was writing to...

Look back to v 8 of your chapter - Paul says "I desire therefore"  meaning the instruction comes from him and not directly from God...it's not a command from God - it's Paul's teaching to keep some order in the service - and this text has been so abused by *some* men - and *some* women are happy to go along with it.

Yes  scripture is for our benefit - but this text  is open for interpretation in my opinion - also it's cultural, which we in the west don't completely understand.

Women in the bible were teachers, prophets, Evangelists, Apostles and so on - just as women today still serve God in these same rolls.

In ACTS 1-2  women gathered for the empowerment of the Holy Ghost along with men - this was the start of the Christian church at Pentecost.

So go back to GAL text - *there is no male or female*   --  so i conclude in the COR text Paul had another reason for his teaching - and it isn't what many people think.

The best thing to do is find a church where the minister/pastor treats men and women equally - all one in the body of Christ - this is another teaching of Paul - so doesn't that tell you something about COR!!

Answer 6

Yes there are lots of points like these, but if you pick holes than you will eventually fall through the net, no that doe not help does it

Answer 7

I have absolutely no problem with this. I do not understand why some women have to seek the limelight and be willing to disobey what the Apostle Paul said.

We should not seek preeminence, there are plenty of roles for women to do that don't require us to usurp the authority which the man has in the churches.

Answer 8

Take care that your resentment doesn't cause you to stumble.

Adam and Eve wanted something that wasn't right for them to have (there were several other fruit trees in the garden.  They didn't have to sin.)

Satan wanted something he couldn't have (worship that belongs to God).

Jesus shows how to serve without resentment.  If you don't believe in the trinity several verses can help you.

One, I can't find right now speaks of Jesus NOT desiring to be God's equal which is emphasized at 1 Corinthians 11:2, 3:

"Now I commend YOU because in all things YOU have me in mind and YOU are holding fast the traditions just as I handed [them] on to YOU. 3 But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God."

God is a God of order, not disorder.    Just like there's a President and a Vice President- they compliment each other but they shouldn't fight for power.  We should follow the example of Jesus and be thankful for the place we were given.  Each has it's own rewards and responsibilities.

At Ephesians 5:21-33:

"Be in subjection to one another in fear of Christ. 22 Let wives be in subjection to their husbands as to the Lord, 23 because a husband is head of his wife as the Christ also is head of the congregation, he being a savior of [this] body. 24 In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ, so let wives also be to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, continue loving YOUR wives, just as the Christ also loved the congregation and delivered up himself for it, 26 that he might sanctify it, cleansing it with the bath of water by means of the word, 27 that he might present the congregation to himself in its splendor, not having a spot or a wrinkle or any of such things, but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 In this way husbands ought to be loving their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself, 29 for no man ever hated his own flesh; but he feeds and cherishes it, as the Christ also does the congregation, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave [his] father and [his] mother and he will stick to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” 32 This sacred secret is great. Now I am speaking with respect to Christ and the congregation. 33 Nevertheless, also, let each one of YOU individually so love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband."

This shows that even though women are subject to men, their are to treat us as gently and lovingly as they would themselves.  Men are not obeying God when they abuse their power or position.

God values women as much as men.  We each have strengths that compliment the other.

I hope this helps.

**Edit**

Thanks to the Bard, I now have the Scripture I couldn't recall.

Philippians 2:5,6:

"Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. "

We are all members of the same body (men and women).  Our hands, for instance, aren't resentful of hands :)  Both are necessary and valuable.

Answer 9

Jesus didn't write the bible, others did.

He didn't approve everything that went in there.

Answer 10

The bible is  just a book that should  be written in the front ....

imspired by God, written and edited by man ( for his own evil deeds)

Answer 11

God didn't write the Bible, man did....guess what men are sometimes idiots. Good news, most christians ignore the stupid bits.

Answer 12

Sounds about right.

Answer 13

Should Women Be Pastors and Elders?

In a social climate of complete equality in all things, the biblical teaching of only allowing men to be pastors and elders is not popular. Many feminist organizations denounce this position as antiquated and chauvinistic. In addition, many Christian churches have adopted the "politically correct" social standard and have allowed women pastors and elders in the church. But the question remains, is this biblical?

     My answer to this question is, "No, women are not to be pastors and elders." Many may not like that answer, but it is, I believe, an accurate representation of the biblical standard. You make the decision after reading this paper.

    

     First of all, women are under-appreciated and under-utilized in the church. There are many gifted women who might very well do a better job at preaching and teaching than many men. However, it isn't gifting that is the issue, but God's order and calling. What does the Bible say? We cannot come to God's word with a social agenda and make it fit our wants. Instead, we must change and adapt to what it says.

     In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, the garden of Eden, and Adam and Eve. He put Adam in the garden and gave him the authority to name all the animals. Afterwards, God made Eve as a helper to Adam.(1) This is an important concept because Paul refers to the order of creation in his epistle to Timothy when he discusses the relationship between men and women in the church context. Let's take a look.

     "But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression" (1 Tim. 2:12-14 -- all quotes from the Bible are from the NASB). This passage has several interesting areas of discussion, but for our purpose we will focus on authority. At the very least, there is an authority structure set up by God. The woman is not to have authority over the man in the church context. But this does not extend to the political/economic world. In the Old Testament Deborah was a judge in Israel over men. Also, in the New Testament, Phoebe played an important role in the church at Cenchrea (Romans 16). There is no doubt that women supported Paul in many areas and were great helpers in the church (Act 2:17; 18:24; 21:8). But what Paul is speaking of in 1 Tim. 2 is the relationship between men and women in the church structure, not in a social or political context.

     When we look further at Paul's teachings we see that the bishop/overseer is to be the husband of one wife (1 Tim. 3:2) who manages his household well and has a good reputation (1 Tim. 3:4-5, 7). Deacons must be "men of dignity"(1 Tim. 3:8). Paul then speaks of women in verse 11 and their obligation to receive instruction. Then in verse 12, Paul says "Let deacons be husbands of one wife..." Again, in Titus 1:5-7, Paul says, "For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might set in order what remains, and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, namely, if any man be above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward..." Notice that Paul interchanges the word 'elder' and 'overseer'.

     In each case, the one who is an elder, deacon, bishop, or overseer is instructed to be male. He is the husband of one wife, responsible, able to "exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict" (Titus 1:9). We see no command for the overseers to be women. On the contrary, women are told to be "dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things" (1 Tim. 3:11). Why is it that it is the men who are singled out as the overseers? It is because of the created order of God that Paul references (Gen. 1-2; 1 Tim. 2:12-14). This is not merely a social custom that fell away with ancient Israel.

     Additionally, in the Old Testament in over 700 mentions of priests, every single one was a male. There is not one instance of a female priest. This is significant because priests were ordained by God to hold a very important office of ministering the sacrifices. This was not the job of women.

     Therefore, from what I see in Genesis 1-2, 1 Timothy 2, and Titus 1, the normal and proper person to hold the office of elder/pastor is to be a man.

What About Galatians 3:28?

     "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus," (Gal. 3:28).

     This verse is often used to support the idea that women can hold the offices of elder and pastor because there is neither male nor female in Christ. The argument states that if we are all equal, then women can be pastors.

     Unfortunately, those who use this verse this way have failed to read the cont

Answer 14

there is no such thing as god.  

Answer 15

I agree with them--it doesn't mean that women are dirt, but it's simply not their place.  Men were given the authority to rule; women are their helpmates, equal in dignity, but naturally submissive to men's authority.  If men are kings, women are queens. This shows a difference in the roles between men and women.  They can't teach, but they can still be holy; not however, by usurping the roles of men.  

Answer 16

Thank you for asking this question. I've written these down so I can study them more later.

I'm Mormon. In our church, men hold the priesthood. Men are the bishops, and presiding officers of the church. Men are the ones who when it comes down to it, make the decisions regarding the wellbeing of the rest of us.

We women have our own organization within the church, through which we strengthen one another, help one another, and as is said in a song, "comfort the weary and strengthen the weak". I have never held any ill will towards the men in the church for this, as I believe it is the natural order of things, and the way it is meant to be.

I do feel, though, that there are some men who take advantage of their authority in inappropriate ways, but they will pay for their sins in the end.

Answer 17

I am a christian woman and this doesn't offend me the least cause I know what is being taught here.

  In 1 Cor.14:34-35,This is a figure of speech and mistaught often.You've got to remember that the whole church is the bride of Christ so the order was given in the feminine gender.No one should chatter in church while the teaching is going on.There is nothing more important than what is being taught,if you got to ask something,wait till service is over to ask.

Remember,the subject here is learning!

1 Tim.2:(11)When the Word  is being taught  there should be respect for the Word and the one doing the teaching.(12)The word "suffer" is used here because of what Paul was doing to those women prior to his conversion.Paul was dragging women out of the church in the street,stripping and beating them,some to death.He knew how dangerous it was to preach the Word at that time.Paul was excusing the women from preaching because of this.(13)This is true,Adam came first.But man is suppose to be over the woman as Christ is over the man.Christ gave everything for His bride & wife.Christ put His children first in everything.How many men do you know that put their wife & children before anything?Not too many I suppose.This changes the whole thing that Paul was teaching here.(14)In a far out way this is true but we know that Adam followed along and fortook of the same thing that Eve did.(15)This is still talking about Eve here.From umbilical cord to umbilical cord,through Eve Christ would be born.

1 Cor.11:9 This is not aimed to put superiority in this.But the man & woman were created to work as a team.God created each for the other.The woman created for the man and the man for the protection and well being of the woman.

Edit...Just wanted to remind you that in 1 Cor.11:5,13 Paul was telling the women to pray & teach in the church but to always have the veil of Christ on her at all times.

Answer 18

Are you also resentful that you must repent for your sin?

Answer 19

As others have stated, this seems be a verse addressing a specific group of women who were causing commotion during the service.

I'm not sure I fully understand what impact it has on me, as a woman and a wife.  But, because I am very passionate,  I tend to be quite vocal (among the people I'm comfortable with).  My husband is a quiet man, I have to "check myself" to make sure that I'm not always stepping on his toes, stealing the converstation, and making decisions without making sure I've really come to an understanding of what he's thinking/feeling.  Sometimes, it's really hard balancing out the "need to share" what I think/feel/believe, with the fact that I am in subjection to my husband, pastor (a close friend), etc.  I know that there were, in fact, women who had major roles, even prophetesses, in the Bible.  So, somehow, it all fits together.  It is a matter that should be taken to God in prayer, asking Him how this applies (or does not apply) to you, personally.

Also, make no mistake! "Subjection" does not equate to "decreased value."  Just because we have different roles, doesn't mean that God loves us any less.  Just as our children are in subjection to their parents and elders, yet, we know just how much God loves them!!!



"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

-Matthew 18:1-3

Edit: While I have a deep respect for Xyleshia and her beliefs, I do disagree with her understanding of the verses she supplied.

The Son, while in submission to the Father, was still equal and still fully God....

However, He laid down the glory and honor that He rightfully deserved as our Creator, and lowered Himself to become man.

"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Philippians 2:6-8 KJV)

In fact, this is an excellent time to make another point on inequality vs submission.

Jesus submitted to His earthly parents, yet, IN NO WAY were they superior to Him.  Just as when we submit ourselves to our husbands, pastors, etc, our value is in no way diminished.

Answer 20

Why are you resentful?

Vot has never been one to take the lead in anything, so it's fine by me. Even if women could hold those positions, I wouldn't vie for any.

The Bible shows that God values women, we are precious in his eyes. But every organisation needs order to function, and it's only fair that the older creation gets a position of responsibility, just as an older child gets to be in charge of younger siblings.

Anyway, that's just me. No problems with it at all.

Answer 21

I think our culture has changed, and I don't think God wants you to feel inferior. I think back in the day this really was the case, but that doesn't mean that God wants you to bow down to your boyfriend or husband! I, for one, am no feminist, and am happy to serve my husband in any way that I can. In turn, though, he serves me as well, and it creates a loving bond between the two of us.

Maybe you need to translate this a little differently. Maybe silence stands for meekness in our day. There is nothing wrong with a meek, humble woman--or man!--who is charitable and kind to others. As women it is, whether or not you want to believe it, our nature to be maternal. We have the power to do something more great than anything else in the world. We create life. We give birth to children, and with that wonderful, beautiful gift, comes the responsibility to nuture. You can still be a powerful business woman in this world of ours, but if you're caring and nurturing, I think you'll find that you'll enjoy being a woman a lot more.

Answer 22

I do not understand what the problem is? After all it is your bible and if you do not agree then chuck it or realise your place in society. All religions treat women as second class, so why take it. Stand up and be counted.

Answer 23

those scriptures have nothing to do with domination. you have to read the history behind each scripture. if you take it for face value...you're not going to understand it and jump to conclusions. those women were being disruptive in the church. if anyone is being disruptive, i tell them to be silent also.

you can not be resentful for something you do not understand. read the history behind each verse. that helps you understand more.

Cross Cross: where did you come up with Jesus not approving? please tell me. you are incorrect.

Answer 24

unfair unjust stick with the new testament, Jesus went aginst their stuff so can you for the greater good ok so don't beat your self over things liek that

Answer 25

I'm an Atheist, but...

That's one of my main problems with Christianity. It treats women like we're garbage. If the Bible was written the other way around, do you think Christianity would have spread the way it did?

Answer 26

I ask Jehovah God this:

"Why do you consider woman less than men?"

and

"Why do i have to be a woman?"

I prefer to skip these verses when i read th bible.

Answer 27

Doesn't this raise the question: How much of the rest of the bible is hateful, hurtful and useless?

Answer 28

It's amazing how some people will say things like "oh, just a cultural thing of the time", and "we don't pay attention to the stupid parts".....

...yet the bits about homos are still treated as gospel truth, even though THAT was a product of cultural practices at the time too. Funny that, how we pick and choose which parts we think are stupid, and which are not.

Answer 29

St Paul wrote them...there's some debate about just how truthful he really was about the claims to authority he made...