What do you make of this article?

Question

This was published and written today by a feminist columnist, and I have to say I think it's the sort of thing which gives feminism such a bad press in the modern age. I personally haven't come across such an ill thought out piece of garbage in a long while.

The full article is here:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/cath_elliott/2008/05/so_angry_i_could_strip.html

The highlight is about men wolf whistling or looking at womens chests which apparently is sexual harassment amongst other things...

"And don't men just know it - how easy it is to undermine our new found self confidence? That's why sexual harassment isn't going to go away any time soon, and why we have to find new ways of dealing with it; because reducing women to the sum of our body parts is all a part of the backlash; it's the patriarchy fighting back against women's bid for autonomy."

Answer 1

In a lot of ways, she's right. But she presents her argument in a way that makes women seem like constant victims.

Answer 2

I find it interesting that what she refers to as "self confidence" can be undermined by anyone other than self. She makes no sense. If your sense of confidence is determined by how strangers treat you, you're not very confident at all.

I just looked at her picture.

I doubt she's ever been "sexually harassed" in her life.

Answer 3

so does it all just come down to s*x.....or not?

are you saying that a man looks at a woman, sees her physically attractive to him, or not?

wolf whistles or not?

would a man wolf whistle at a woman wearing a burkha?

why do some women wear veils?

how many girls/women have been sexually abused by men?

is an "ugly" woman lesser than a "s**y" woman?

Is s*x drive a base animal instinct?

is pack behaviour a base animal behaviour?

"them" and "us" mentality? Base?

....

of course it is sexual harassment!

Answer 4

"sexual harassment" ? LOL!

Plain and simple..

If women don't want men whistling and/or starring at them then they need to stop dressing and/or acting like wh*re.

Answer 5

I think you missed the point of the article...which was:

Despite all the gains that feminism has made we've yet to overcome this most tenacious expression of s*x discrimination; the one that tells women that no matter how intelligent we are, no matter what heights we rise to in our academic or professional careers, at the end of the day we will be judged on our physical not our mental attributes; the one that says "forget all that learning, love, it's not the size of your brain that matters, it's the size of your chest." And as the latest depressing figures for cosmetic surgery show, the message is obviously getting through, as more and more of us appear to be opting for that plastic Barbie doll look.

All very true. Men objectify women...not all men...but too many. We then propogate that by undermining our own self-worth and intrinsic value, instead opting for cosmetic surgery or other enhancements in order to please men....I think she is blaming men exclusively for this...or mostly....but it is equally our fault...but still very much happens.

Answer 6

Well, she is being quite forthright about it, which you would expect from a columnist looking to get a reaction, and I guess there will be a lot of "Oh I don't mind blokes looking at me like uncovered meat" responses, but she makes a good point.

Wolf whistling, cat calling, ogling and similar behaviour is not complimentary.

It is offensive, intimidatory and mostly unwelcome by normal thinking females.

It's especially horrible when you are alone and vulnerable.

Most women who have experienced this behaviour know it is often followed up with further comments, gestures and behaviour of an obscene kind, regardless of how the woman actually responds to it.

Women keep saying this, and blokes keep dismissing it, which feels a lot like the experiences and opinions of women about this are being considered invalid. Why is that?

No-one, male or female has said that people shouldn't look at a nice looking girl or guy, but most of us know where the line is between looking and leering, and people who have good manners and consideration for others don't cross that line.

People who are constantly exposed to the concentrated, unwelcome and malicious attention of others may eventually get a little paranoid about it (I'm thinking Princess Di, Tom Cruise, Richard Gere and Madonna, as well as the many women who could form an 'ogled at by bricklayers' guild).

Maybe they react a little over the top about it, but that doesn't invalidate the underlying issue.

Cheers :-)

PS: Re-reading, I also note the columnist is pretty firm towards women too ~ pointing out that wimping out and just copping it, or getting all agitated and stripping off (!!! good grief !!!) is no way to convey the message this behaviour is unwelcome. She is letting women know good and strong "No mixed messages", which is excellent advice!

Answer 7

Actually I agree with a lot of what she is saying. Wolf whistling IS sexual harassment, and actually in the UK many councils and building firms are threatening their workers with dismissal if they wolf whistle or otherwise harass passers by. I get really tired of this behaviour myself, and can see how it could be considered threatening, especially if someone has been recently attacked. I used to ignore it, but this didn't seem a particularly effective response, and my policy now is to report it to the relevant council / building firm. I encourage all women to do the same if it annoys them. For those that say 'it's a compliment', forgive me for not taking it as a compliment that some gross chav builder with a beer belly wants to **** me. Jesus, they'd probably **** anything that moves if they had the chance.

Amorphophallus - yes, certain immigrants / guest workers definitely harass women more. The average Englishman, excluding builders, doesn't leer at women in the street, but Africans and Middle Eastern men seem to think it's perfectly acceptable. They shouldn't be living in countries they can't respect. Fortunately shouting and calling attention to their stupid behaviour seems to be pretty effective and they usually scarper off with their tails between their legs.

Gun fanatic - that has to be one of your most ignorant comments, and that's saying something. I've been harassed even when wearing jeans, baggy overcoat and no make up whatsoever. How do you explain that?

Answer 8

Whats sad is how often this is true......

"forget all that learning, love, it's not the size of your brain that matters, it's the size of your chest."

Answer 9

Wolf whistling and leering shows a lack of class and good manners. These are not compliments and women should not be flattered. It is commenting on a stranger's body parts and is just plain rude. Why do some men have a hard time understanding this?

Answer 10

Could be a lot of truth in it.  I gave RoVale a thumbs up.

Answer 11

One time when I was an older schoolgirl, 4 of us were walking back to school after going out for lunch.  A man cycled past on a bike and one of us shouted 'oi s**y a*se' - when the man turned round and saw us, we then proceeded to shout all sorts of things basically commenting on his body and telling him what we would like to do to him.

Imagine how embarrassed we were when he turned out to be the supply teacher for the afternoon.

So yeah, it is sexual harrassment - it's crude, it's designed to be intimidating, it's like pack behaviour, it has very little to do with s*x or being attracted to a person, and almost everything to do with being loud, vulgar, gobsh*tes.  I don't think it has to do with the patriarchy, but  think it is all too commen in some men, and a few women, and it ought to be stopped :-)

Answer 12

Articles like this... books like this... feminist professors in women's studies programs like this... and so on and so fourth.

Anti-male attitudes like this are everywhere within the feminist order.

Many women would read things like that & not even realize just how sexist that is.

Anti-male sexism goes unnoticed quite often.

Some people think that men cannot be discriminated against.

...And so it goes.

EDIT:

Some women agree with the message of "men shouldn't stare at women" but neglect to see the generalizing and sexism.

If a white person wrote an article about how "blacks are too loud in movie theaters" and cited all sorts of examples and anecdotes...

Most people would accuse them of generalizing and racism.

BUT...

When feminists take aim at men?

Generalizing and sexism is A.O.K.

Answer 13

I've lived in the country almost my entire life.  Because of that, I've rarely been the "victom" of borish behavior of men.

I remember once riding when I was out riding my horses with my best friend from High School.  We rode past the local lumber mill.  The men outside putting trees through the big mill began to wolf whilstle, shout and wave at us.  We were teenagers, so we looked at each other, cracked up, waved at the guys (some hardly older than us) and continued riding.  It didn't seem in the least bit threatening....it seemed much more like, "Dear Lord, I'm so very bored, please pretty girls riding buy take just a seconds notice of me, and give me something to think about other than jacking the big trees around, and not getting one of my limbs sawed off."

I realize perfectly well that in some countries, that the sexual harrasment of woment is extreme.  Fortunatly, I live in the U.S.A.  I've rarely had a problem with it.  I do not simper, preen, giggle, or look at the floor, if a man says something inapropriate to me.  I look him square in the eye, and say, "That comment was inapropriate, is there some work related issue I can help you with, otherwise, good day."  

There's no reason to be rude, or yell, or scream at men if they are borrish.  Just bring them up short, in a no-nonsese kind of way, and I've never had a problem after that.

The idea that patriarchy (at least here in the U.S.A.) is fighting back against women is pretty funny.  Everywhere you go, there is the media to remind women AND men just how stupid men are, and completely incapable of taking care of themselves they are.  Only if the product they are trying to sell is beer, haircolor for men, or deoderant for men, do men suddenly become smart, and virile.

By the way, has anyone read a follow-up article on the young woman who caused the articles and media attention in the first place?  She's a complete flipping looney.  Not for the stripping incident....but rather for getting in a fight at a bar, and putting a cigarette out on someones face.  She did that some days after the stripping incident.

Here's a link:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,237...

~Garnet

Permaculture homesteading/farming over 20 years

Answer 14

I find that most women feminist or not don't mind if I appreciate their looks.  That being said though, there's a tasteful way to do it.  Let's call it the unofficial five second rule.

I empathize with the message that the author is trying to convey because huge packs of males whistling and staring would make me uncomfortable also.  

That last paragraph you  high-lighted is  kinda reaching and over-dramatizing though.  It's not as though "all" men practice this type of harassment.  She  makes it sound as though the vast majority of our gender is in on a conspiracy to oppress all women and move back into a time in which women are treated as nothing more than s*x objects.  That's a bit demeaning to males in general.  

"Sexual harassment isn't going to go away anytime soon"?

That sounds a bit maudlin and pessimistic.  I prefer having a little bit more faith in my human race.

Answer 15

I think the author of the article was talking about leering, wolf whistling and lewd comments being made, and yes that meets the criteria for sexual harassment.  However, I have found that this problem is much, MUCH worse in Europe than it is in the US and Canada.  It was horrible in Germany and Austria - these creeps were groping us and directing the ugliest comments to us on the street.  I observed how Viennese women dealt with it: they did nothing, but all were visibly shaken (of course).   What could they do?  We were repeatedly victimised, over and over again.  These learned  behaviors were reinforced each and every time they got away with doing them.  They had no fear at all.  I must say that by "these guys" I am referring primarily to Turkish "Gastarbeiter" (guest workers) who are all muslim.  Why did they behave so horribly towards us?  I hooked up with a Turkish woman traveling on her own (yes that's correct what you just read) while traveling in London: she told me that it was because they were taking out their anger on us women.  Continental Europe can be pretty racist and these Gastarbeiter are not loved by huge segments of the population.  They feel the brunt of racism, and feel emasculated, powerless.  In order to feel better about themselves they put others down - and the easiest targets are the local women.  *The behavior is designed to harass and degrade*.  I once got so angry at one of these pigs I kicked him in the shin.  He was positively astounded, didn't know what to do and I felt GREAT!  It was just one pervert too many on that particular shopping trip. I had been fantasing about doing this and then before I knew it the opportunity presented itself.   Perhaps that's one guy who thought twice about it the next time the compulsion to engage in the behavior came over him.  If each of us women would take a kick at the dude harassing us the harassing behavior would promptly cease.

The author wrote: “reducing women to the sum of our body parts is all a part of the backlash”

Wrong. It never went away in the first place.  It never got through to those men who do this that the behavior is unacceptable.

*The behavior is designed to harass and degrade*

And to humiliate.  Did I mention humiliate??

*And look at the thumbs-down by persons who have no idea about how devastating this is.  They have no empathy, because they have never themselves been victimised in this manner.  THEY DON'T CARE about how we feel about the harassment we are forced to endure.  The 'thumbs-down' speak volumes about just how seriously this social problem is taken by society.

*Sam wrote "shouting and calling attention to their stupid behaviour seems to be pretty effective" and I did that too.  Make a fuss!  That's the last thing they want: a public humiliating.  Don't you feel better when you decide you no longer wish to be a victim and actually DO something about it?  Anything - whatever it takes -  just to ruin their day, lol!

*guns,  that's the most asinine post yet.  You don't understand the dynamics of this social problem, do you?  Harassment has NOTHING TO DO WHAT WOMEN ARE WEARING. I was wearing a thick, warm winter coat and boots while walking around the pedestrian areas, shopping.  Dress has nothing to do with it so your pathetic strategy of "blame the victim" remains unconvincing.  Give it up!