What do you think about Greek veto on Macedonian entry in NATO ?

Question

BUCHAREST, Romania (AP) - NATO will not invite Macedonia to join during this week's summit, alliance officials said Thursday. A Macedonian official called the rejection «a huge disappointment» and warned that it would destabilize the Balkans.

Latvian President Valdis Zatlers said NATO leaders agreed that Macedonia can join once it resolves a dispute over its

name with Greece.

Greece has a northern province that is also called Macedonia, and contends the former Yugoslav republic's insistence on being known as Macedonia implies a territorial claim.

Macedonian official Nikola Dimitrov told The Associated Press that NATO's rejection will undermine stability in the Balkans.

«This is a huge disappointment. It goes against the obligations of Greece,» he said.

«It goes against the values that stand behind NATO. It's very much against the stability in the Balkans. It sends the wrong message in terms of the moderate politicians and the radical forces.

«We are being punished not because w

Answer 1

It was inevitable... not only do you insult us by stealing our name and history but the world community and this is what NATO leaders had to say about the FYROM's disrespectful behavior:

The European Union’s enlargement commissioner, Olli Rehn, said: “NATO membership for Croatia, Albania and FYROM will help prepare those countries for EU membership as well.” Earlier Rehn had criticized posters in Skopje streets showing the n**i swastika superimposed on the Greek flag. This is hardly in keeping with the principles of good neighborly relations, he remarked.

Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, Nato Secretary-General,announced the compromise deal as one of a number of issues which he claimed were the summit's main achievements. He also cited the invitation to Albania and Croatia to join the alliance, but then had to admit the bitter disppointment over the decision to postpone a similar invitation to the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM). He said this would not be possible until the question of Macedonia's name was resolved.

Mr Scheffer said negotiations would continue to resolve the dilemma as quickly as possible. Greece objects to the name because it is the same as its northernmost province, which was the birthplace of Alexander the Great.

When Mr Scheffer announced during his press conference that FYROM could not yet be invited into Nato, a troop of FYROM journalists walked out in protest, waving their notebooks. So much for journalistic neutrality and professionalism.  But this doesn't matter since the FYROM newspapers print whatever propaganda they want anyway.

This is how the imposters behave, they should be dealt with harshly.

Macedonia is a historical and geographic area that was home to the ancient Macedonians; the most prominent of whom Alexander the Great.

Alexander’s empire propagated a period in history that is known as the Hellenistic (Greek) Age.

The ancient Macedonians spoke Greek, worshipped the ancient Greek Gods, and participated in the Olympic Games (an event restricted to Greeks at the time).

The overwhelming majority of the ancient territory of Macedonia, including important historical sites, are found in Northern Greece (in a geographic region bearing the same name).

On the other hand, the population of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is 30% Albanaian; with significant minorities of Serbs, Bulgarians, Vlachs, and Gypsies.

The dominant racial group of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia is Slavic in origin which can be traced to the region from the 7th century AD and onwards. Alexander the Great and his countrymen where not part of the great Slavic races of Europe.

Any recognition of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia with the name would be an act of historical injustice.

There are no ethnic Macedonians as a separate, distinct, and self-identifying cultural identity anywhere in the world. To this extent, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia should not be allowed to misappropriate a historical identity that is more closely related to the Ancient Greeks then any other people in the world.

How can a predominately Slavophone (a dialect of Bulgarian) people with origins since the 7th century AD be staking a claim to a culture that predates its very existence in the area?

The name and cultural aspect of Macedonia is an inalienable part of Greece’s history that must not be allowed to be usurped and misappropriated.

And it is even more amazing to here what so called “Macedonians” of FYROM believe about themselves. We in the west have completely rejected history and allowed a “country” like FYROM to portray themselves as victims. Having spent time in FYROM I must confess that this highly problematic, far from democratic country is continuing its communist propaganda about their ancestral home which would include parts of nowadays Greece. I am only sorry for the reaction of my own country the US which I believe is not misinformed in its actions but rather egoistically using the situation to benefit politacally against a former friend Greece.

There is no justification for the rape of Greece at this moment by the US and FYROM, for the rape of history and for the rape of logic. The populations of all these countries have through history suffered tremendously but that has never allowed any one of these countries to steal the identity of somebody else, to re-write history, fake research (the scandalous DNA-articles by FYROM scholars) to gain support for a political cause.

FYROM as a country lacks minimum stability yet it acts as a raptor due to the support of my country. The tide will turn and the tremendous economic investments primarily made by Greeks will suddenly be remembered again when this nationalistic euphoria of the FYROMians has settled. Remember, US is not your neighbour. Your neighbours are Greece, Bulgaria, Kosovo and Serbia. And your behaviour at this moment against all these four countries is by no means the behaviour of a neighbour.

If any cultural support for the identity of the FYROMians can be found anywhere, it can be found in Greece.

The VETO is justified

but why ask the question when you have no intetion of putting this to a vote as you have shown before... but I can't expect you to because you see DEMOCRACY also has its origins in Greece as did Macedonia,Alexander, the Verginia Star, Aristotle, etc.

if you have the courage as a True Greek Macedonian would put it to a vote... but you won't because you are as fake as your nation.

You are being punished for Identity theft!!!

And you have attempted to report this answer because it is true but it does not violate Y!A guidelines because it is the truth and correct

Answer 2

Greece interferes the Ancient history in 21st century.

It is out of question to debate about Ancient Macedonians and today Greeks - THERE ARE 23 CENTURIES BETWEEN THEM !!!

Comedy: Greek by Name

By Hans Lothar Schteppan

February 12, 2008

The satire "Greek by name" from December 12, 2007, is characterized as successfully funny and even humourous, sadly however reality is seldom a "comedy".

If for the Greeks the "name" issue REPRESENTS "Support for the State Philosophy" which is overly excessive, then for the Macedonians it represents a risk of "losing their country and ethnic existense".

Macedonians have been using this name for at least 1,500 years or since many tribes settled the Balkans and mixed with the indigenous people. Greeks on the other hand have gained Macedonian territory, specifically their northern province which for the longest time they called "Northern Greece" only 95 years ago when they took possession of 51% of Macedonia in 1913. Only in 1989 did Greece change the name of its northern province to "Macedonia" under the motto "Attack is the best defense".

It is absurd that Macedonians are even talking to the Greeks knowing that they have little chance of making progress in these unfair negotiations. Thanks to Greece's threat of veto and its irresponsible use of it as well as its position in NATO and the EU it has all the help it needs from the European Community to hold Macedonia back as long as it wants.

Greece very cunningly and abruptly rejected Macedonia's name in 1992 in Lisbon before anyone had a chance to "examine the facts". This rejection also came with misinformation and confusion leading the unaware European ministers to come to the wrong conclusion. Greece lead the European Community into believing that the name "Macedonia" was of no importance to the Republic of Macedonia because allegedly this was a name created by Tito when Yugoslavia became a state of republics in 1944. Thus Greece's strong objection to the name was laid on a foundation of lies. The EU states, without consulting historical data and without examining the facts, were quick to take Athens's side. A similar scenario was repeated in 1993 when Macedonia applied for membership into the United Nations. It seems that justice is not important these days and the sacred Greek might is always placed ahead of Macedonia's right.

If we examine past approaches to the name issue taken by our American "mediator" of the UN, we will find that the whole process is biased in Greece's favour. Actions taken during briefings in Skopje in 1994 and 1995 at best can be described as "desperate".

With the exception of naming the Skopje Airport "Alexander the Great", every gesture Macedonia made in Greece's view should be positive but from what experience has shown Greece has been relentless and has, without thinking twice, used all ammunition delivered to its hands against Macedonia.

Macedonia on the other hand has a great heritage which modern Europe considers to be the cradle of western culture. Ironicaly even though it is well known that Alexander the Great was Macedonian, no one complained when Greece named its airport "Alexander the Great" in late 1989. What justification did the Greeks have? That Alexander the Great spread "Hellenism" to the world during his expeditions? If that were true, and no one can deny that modern Europe in its entirety has profited immensely from Hellenism, then why is there not a single European nation (besides Greece) Greek today? Why is there not a single nation outside of Europe, where Alexander ventured, Greek today?

When Slav tribes were settling the Balkans in the 6th and 7th centuries AD the ancient Greeks had already abandoned Greece and others settled in their place. For well known reasons the Greeks left Greece at the end of the 4th century but the descendents of the ancient Macedonians remained all while Macedonia was a Roman province. Thus the descendents of the ancient Macedonians lived in Macedonia as the descendents of the ancient Thracians lived in Thrace and as the descendents of the Ancient Epirians lived in Epirus.

In time these people assimilated with the Slav tribes who in turn adopted those lands as their home and left their genetic markers in the modern populations. So today we have Slav and ancient Macedonian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Macedonians the same as we have Thracian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Bulgarians and modern Turks living in Eastern Thrace. The same can be said about the modern Greeks and Albanians who carry in their blood the genetic markers from the ancient Epirians.

Even though it is well known that the Turko-Tatar Bulgars settled the Eastern Balkans 150 years after the Slav tribes and took the Slavic language from them, does not prevent the modern Bulgarians from asserting that today's Macedonians allegedly speak "Bulgarian".

Further forward in time, during the 9th century according to George Shtatmiller author of the book "History of South-Easter Europe" the Greeks, drawn by the Slav settlements of Greece, returned to their former fatherland and assimilated the Slavs and Albanians settling that region. So how can the Greeks then claim to be related to the ancient Macedonians?

Contrary to any Greek assertions, Greeks in reality never settled Macedonian territories, not in ancient nor any other time until the 20th century. Macedonians on the other hand have conquered and have occupied Greek lands. The ancient Macedonians, through the League of Corinth, held hegemony over the Greeks for over 120 years during which time they also occupied Athens for a short period.

Thus prior to the 20th century Macedonia was never Greek, not during Roman times when both Macedonia and Greece were Roman colonies, not during the Middle Ages, not during Ottoman times and certainly not until after the 1912, 1913 Balkan Wars when Greece, for the first time, by virtue of conquest, was awarded Macedonian lands including Solun and parts of Thrace. And this Greece did not do alone but with help from its neighbours Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro and with the blessings of the Great Powers. Thanks to the Great Powers, Russia in particular, for their support of the four Balkan monarchies which united and declared war on the Ottomans without themselves being swallowed up by Austro-Hungary or Romania.

Let us also remind the world that the Thracians and Epirians disappeared after 1913 only as a result of brutal hellenization at the hands of the Greek state, brutal Bulgarization at the hands of the Bulgarians and Islamization due to Ottoman influence. The Macedonians occupied by Serbia to some extent survived Serbian attempts at assimilation and began to regain their Macedonian consciousness under the cover of Yugoslavia.

It is sad to say that Macedonia's annexation in 1913 happened with the blessing of International right which now reminds it of the shame it committed. It is not fear of the Macedonian hammer that Greece is afraid but of the fear of facing its own shame in public.

As protectors of the European heritage which has flourished for centuries, European Union parliamentarians should be ashamed of forcing Macedonia, a state which in the past has done so much for Europe, to accept a farcical name like "FYROM". This again proves that Europe values business and money far above justice, truth, etiquette and morality.

If this small country has learned anything, it has learned how unfair Europe can be. The 2001 Ohrid Agreement was forced upon it by Brussels bureaucrats without even examining the facts or consulting history. Europe has shown no care for the dangers under the sword of Demiclis it has created for this young state. With this kind of attitude how does Europe expect to hold a united existence?

The only option Macedonia is left with to protect its rights is to present its case to the international community.

Hans Lothar Schteppan is a former German Ambassador to the Republic of Macedonia and author of the book "Macedonian Knot"

Answer 3

Greece made a huge mistake!

Answer 4

Greece talking to Macedonia:

Well, we can be friends, after you change your name.

But not any name, just the name I like. :)

Joke, but so true.

Answer 5

it just shows greek nationalism, ethnocentrism, frustration and hypocrisy. i don't see this as our defeat, cuz behind all those pressures from their side we didn't give up our name and i hope we never will, even if we never enter NATO or EU or whatever. I do believe that sooner or later justice will win, but in the mean time Greece will be sanctioned

Macedonia forever!

Answer 6

Greece needs to grow up and act like the elder state she is.

Name implies to claim to land? That's not worth comment.

Answer 7

The answer is already given by our Greek fellows: just read their words and you can recognize the huge fascism, nationalism and chauvinism.

They have abused the right to veto and we will never forget it.

They still deny our right to self determination.

Shame for the old EU member states, they have shown lack of capabilities to foresee the future.

Answer 8

Greece has right

the ancient Macedonians spoke Greek

they had Greek names

Greek writing

they worshipped the 12 Greek Olympian Gods

Answer 9

I whole time sow how they lie Macedonians and support the greeks. I'm in those Macedonians who do not like in NATO. I sow whole time that strange happy ironic smile of Dora Bacoyani after meeting with Condolisa Raiz. I  want ask the Macedonians where is them proud, why they bay greeks products, why they allowed greek to enter in Macedonia only with personal documents, 40 old Macedonian women day in the Greek factory in Macedonia, why you don't care and again going in Greece?

And for all our enemies who stole our History: Macedonian were and will be, we are like grass pirey.

Answer 10

This is the most ridiculous thing i have read.. can you not think of anything better.. i believe the Veto against Macedonia will hurt Greece more than it will effect Macedonia..you say you are proud people! what do you call us we will not back down on this WE are the one & only MACEDONIANS, i refer to this recent quote

"Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis said her country would like to see Macedonia join NATO in the future. But she reiterated the position that Macedonia must change its name first."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2008-...

Even your Minister Dora  refers to us as Macedonia!!!!

Why do you bring our other neighbours into this the Bugarians & Albanians have accepted us and we have moved on. And as for your stupid comment as to us speaking Slav makes us Bugarians is ridiculous as a lot of European countries speak Slav.. it does not make them Bulgarian (ie Russia, Czechoslavakia, Serbia, Croatia

Answer 11

I think of Greece and NATO the same as  when China vetoed Taiwan's membership in the UN.

Answer 12

First of all..whoever wrote this article must have napped through history class, and beyond that, he didn't do his research on this topic. Why should Greece be put in the position to negotiate their identity with a Slavic people who only entered the Balkans as illiterate, barbarian invaders in the fifth century?!!. Macedonia has been Greek since before Alexander the Great. Alexander is a Greek name, Phillip is a Greek name, Aristotle was a Greek philosopher, the sun of Vergina(the symbol of Macedon) is Greek. Where as Alexander spoke Attic Greek, and was schooled by Aristotle, these Slavic people need to accept their obvious illiterate Slavic roots.

I whole heartedly support Greece on this veto(as did Germany, France, etc.), and I'm appalled that this issue is even being discussed as such. All the lovers of western thought owe a HUGE debt to the Greeks, and should preserve it's heritage and it's birthplace. Greeks speak one of the worlds oldest languages, and have one of the worlds most consistent cultures and histories in the world..not to mention that Greeks are one of the wolrds most educated and progressive minorities. To put them at a table to "negotiate" their identity is diagraceful.

Answer 13

Why can't this new country (FYROM) call itself whatever it wants?

Let me explain the problem. When Marshal Tito of Yugoslavia changed the name of his country's southern province in 1944 from Vardar Banovina to the Social Republic of Macedonia, he did it to stir up disorder in northern Greece in order to communize the area and to gain an outlet to the Aegean Sea for his country.

This policy was also linked with the Greek civil war that at the time claimed more than 100,000 Greek lives, brought untold destruction to our country, and delayed the post-war reconstruction for a decade.

The name "Republic of Macedonia," therefore, is not a phantom fear for Greeks. It is linked with the deliberate plan to take over a part of Greek territory that has had a Greek identity for more than three millennia and is associated with immense pain and suffering by the Greek people.

Greeks believed that when Yugoslavia dissolved and FYROM declared its independence in 1991, its leaders would recognize their sensitivity to its use of a name it adopted during the Communist era and change it, as the Soviet Union did, to make a clean break with its past.

Not only did they fail to do that, but for 17 years now, the authorities in the country have continued to try to undermine Greek sovereignty over Greek Macedonia, which they call "Aegean Macedonia," and to portray it as "occupied" territory that will one day be "liberated."

While government leaders declare that they have no designs on Greek territory, they refuse to remove such claims from textbooks, speeches, articles, maps and national documents. In fact, by insisting on the name Tito gave the area, they perpetuate the goal he pursued.

Most distressing for Greeks is that the leaders of FYROM insist that their country use the designation "Macedonia" in their country's name without any qualification - in dramatic contrast to international practice and common sense.

When parts of a historical region fall into two countries, the newer area uses an adjective to distinguish itself from the older one - New Mexico and Mexico are one such example. But the leaders of Skopje have so far rejected all possible designations to do that proposed by current UN mediator, Matthew Nimetz.

Greece does not dispute that a part of historic Macedonia lies within FYROM and is prepared to accept a compound name. But FYROM insists on being sole claimant to the name of a whole area, the largest part of which lies outside its borders.

This intransigence comes in spite of Greece's efforts to maintain good relations with FYROM and to support it economically. In the past dozen years, Greece has made the biggest investments (more than $1 billion) and created the most jobs (20,000) in FYROM of any country in the world.

Greece has also made great strides to try to resolve the name issue under UN auspices. It has sat at the negotiating table since 1995 and has shown willingness to consider a solution that the UN mediator advocates - a composite name that includes the geographical designation of Macedonia but attaches an adjective to it to distinguish it from the Greek province with the same name. That's sensible, reasonable and fair to both sides.

FYROM leaders declare that this is a bilateral issue with Greece, and it should not affect their country's prospects for NATO membership. But alliances and partnership can only be fostered among countries if there is mutual trust and good will. The best way for FYROM to show both is to settle the name issue now.

Greece has unilaterally gone more than halfway on the issue, closer to two thirds of the way, I would say, and FYROM would have started moving toward Greece by now. But they have not budged from their hard line. Not one inch.

Greece cannot go any farther. As long as the problem persists Greece cannot and will not endorse FYROM joining NATO or the European Union. No Greek government will ever agree to it. No Greek parliament will ever approve it.

Answer 14

Well it is like this I am a Slavic Macedonian and i really don't care if our name is changed coz today's Macedonia( I'll call it like this coz i don't want to have any connection with the ugly already non existing country of Yugoslavia) has only one common thing with Macedonia from the time of Alexander the Great and that is the geographical factor. The thing we r now on the territory were he lived doesn't give us the right to think that we r that same nation. I would do the same thing i was on Greece place yesterday. Stop being so irrational and live with the fact that we r the same people as Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Czech Republic, Serbia, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Slovakia.. U can not connect Alexander to us coz he lived almost 10 centuries before Slavs inhabited this area of the Balkan peninsula. Some would say that have mixed with those people that have lived here and that we r mix of Slavs and Macedonians but that is also wrong coz before Slavs came here there were many changes in the ethnicity of the inhabitants, many other nations like the Byzantine Empire existed here and they were maybe even greater than the Alexander's empire. So forget About Alexander the Great and be proud with people like Tsar Samuil, St. Kiril and Metodij etc.

Answer 15

I send letter.