What do you think of a scientist giving a public talk on all the 2012/Nibiru nonsense?

Question

I have many opportunities to give science talks to the public.

I've done talks on the Moon, Pluto, Planetary Nebula, the birth of the elements, the formation of the solar system etc...

(some are available to download: http://stardust.astro.missouri.edu/FTP/)I am thinking about doing a talk on the whole 2012 thing - with the aim of laying out the "evidence" (i.e. lack thereof) and explaining why it is all nonsense.

What do think about this? Will it help or hurt? (i.e. will I just raise the profile of this silly story without fixing it, or can I convince people of its silliness?)

If I should do it, what should be included? there are so many myths convolved into this one story that I don't think I can possible cover everything in a 45minute talk.

Answer 1

It seems apparent to you!...that these things  are nonsense.

How madam, do you know?

The only right thing you seem to say in all this, is ''how can you cover everything in a 45min talk.''..Also, I feel you are slightly-self-righteous''

in attitude.

Who cares if you have given science talks...who made you the one, to say its all incorrect?

No, your assumptions are yours alone....let people make their own minds up!  please.

Answer 2

I think it's a good idea. The truth is essential, and there are so few of us willing to stand up and say it. I would not dwell on the Mayan history stuff. I would just discuss it briefly, and then spend more time on the silly predictions about galactic alignment, pole changes, earthquakes, etc. Probably 1/3 should be devoted to the whole Nibiru thing - that really bugs me - with the stupid videos, the fake photographs showing comets, the misquoted papers, etc.

Good Luck.

ADDED: I think it's time that the real scientists push back. The people that are promoting the 2012 hoax are misrepresenting work that has been done during lifetimes of sincere effort. They are using photographs that we have taken as part of research projects and called them something else to fit their agenda. They are scaring kids and saying that it's about weird science and secret government conspiracies. I applaud your efforts and I will do the same myself. It's not the hard core believers I'm trying to reach. It's the kids and the misinformed undecideds. It really doesn't matter that you cannot fit in all the things you would like to say. What matters is your courage, your integrity, and the fact that you are articulate and knowledgable in your subject.

Answer 3

Your question is isomorphic to asking whether you should give a public lecture on the evils of creationism. Those do not tend to pan out so well because scientists are trained and used to discussing the facts and their logical implications openly and honestly, whereas creationists and conspiracy theorists have no interest in facts or logic. So historically, scientists always lose debates with creationists because scientists play by the rules, and cranks play to the audience. The same is true for Moon-Hoax-Theorists or any brand of pseudoscientific quack.

Not that this will be a debate, I understand, but make no mistake that the people attending your lecture will have watched the history channel or read the websites and there will be crazies in the audience who will stand up and argue the cranks' case for them, and they do not and will not play by the rules either. They will have no understanding of, interest in,  or respect for facts, logic, parsimony, standards of evidence, or burden of proof, but they will have a deep instinctive understanding of the appeals to emotion that *actually* persuade lay people. You will have to be very prepared to counter these arguments on the same emotional level, or you will indeed have given credibility to the cranks without destroying their memes.

And that's the point, really. Crank theories are memes, not theories, spread via emotional appeal, not logic. Attacking them with logic does nothing except spread them, like a bad rumour. That said, I think it is possible to succeed, but it's extremely difficult, and you have to concentrate on things a scientist is not trained to concentrate on: emotional appeals, ad hominems ("so-and-so is a vicious liar and a fraud, and here's why"), etc.

ADD: Please refer to the response by "oohooooh" for an illustration of this phenomenon. More lay people will be convinced by exactly that kind of "good old fashion [sic] common sense!!" than by you calmly and rationally explaining how if Nibiru had ever existed, then we would have found it by now.

ADD2: You say, "I want to engage people and show them that the "data" on which their opinions are based is flawed. This is about disseminating knowledge, not preaching." This admirable attitude is nevertheless the reason scientists fail at this. The people who consider ideas such as Nibiru, their opinions are not held based on data. They are held based on emotion. The quasi-data associated with them is merely a justification mechanism that allows the believer to feel as if his beliefs are on an empirical par with anyone else's. Attacking that mechanism does not attack the core belief. Even worse, it is taken as a personal attack on the believer himself because it is *his* defence mechanism! Thus it is much more about preaching and less about knowledge than either of us would like. Preaching will reach them (that's how they formed the opinions in the first place), while "disseminating knowledge" will make you look to them like part of the conspiracy.

Answer 4

I think it's a good idea.  The difference between good and bad science can make for an entertaining and valuable lecture.  You can sneak in some actual information about the scientific method and how it works.

Answer 5

if phil plait gave that lecture i'd pay a million to see that !

Answer 6

I'd do it, if I was you. It may not help much, but you might cause a few people to see that this stuff is nonsense. Some people love to believe silly things. They don't seem to like the truth. Maybe it's not sensationalistic enough for them. I'd begin by explaining the real Mayan calendar, because that is the root of the mess. Next, I'd show that Nibiru is fictional too. That should take most of your time. If you have time left, you can start on pole shifts, galactic alignment, etc.

Answer 7

I have to say, no, it probably won't help.  But i've given public talks on how SETI is done, it's chances and so on, and was asked questions of this sort - UFOs, and such.  The questioners seemed to actually listen.  But true believers are not generally converted.  For everyone else, it's a waste of time.

I've also given SETI talks for my astronomy club.  They generally do not ask about UFOs, aliens and such.  Sure, they've seen things they couldn't identify.  But who really cares if it's a DC-9 or MD-9?  They knew which airport it took off from.

Answer 8

at first glance i dont see it as a bad idea but if you start that than more people will know about this(lie) and start trying to prove you wrong, it could go either way though. if you want to go ahead

Answer 9

If something does happen, then you have blood on your hands!

Answer 10

I wouldn't dignify it with your presence unless the talk deals mainly with teenage gullibility and mass hysteria.  This is a psychological phenomena, not an astronomical one. Except for thinly veiled insults, I've quit attempting to answer such questions.  Like conspiracy theorists, these middle school millenialists really aren't interested in facts.  And to tell the truth I'm not sure how wide spread this silliness extends.  A lot of the stuff we see on this board are individuals asking the same question over and over again.  Dozens or hundreds of times.  It might make an interesting psychology dissertation subject to actually track this nonsense.  

Answer 11

Yes, this would be great, but please, do some research on the Mayan prophecy first.  Make sure that what you are addressing is part of the Mayan prophecies.  Don't just go on the attack based on what science you have had the opportunity to research and understand to this point.  Immerse yourself in the other, so you become credible on the topic.  Remember, our science is still in its infancy in terms of what there is to understand.   Finally, try to address all of the prophecy, including its origin and the "astronomy" behind it.

Here is some information, on the origin of the Mayan Calendar, that I have been able to collect.

Richard Shafsky, a man counseled by a Maya shaman priest, was told the Mayan Calendars were created using information about the cosmos, that is stored in some ancient Crystal Skulls.  He added, this information may be useful in assisting humanity in preparation for the difficult times ahead and for the coming New Age.



I've heard that the true ancient Crystal Skull's can not be duplicated even with today's highest technology. This anomaly points to the existence of highly advanced beings from a time before the Great Maya Civilization. The skulls seem to be a type of Time Capsule / Computer / Data Base (mass information stored in quartz crystal).



The Crystal Skulls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTOe7c0n-...



The Mayan Crystal Skulls: An interview with Richard Shafsky (part 1 of 12)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uUQOVXpY...



The Mayan Calendars end at the completion of their cycle; much like our calendar ends at the end of the solar year cycle. The ancient Maya were master astronomers, mathematicians as well as master time keepers. Those things which they predicted and their time has come to pass (black holes, eclipses, etc.) have been surprisingly right on. Their "Long Count" calendar was discovered in use by an earlier civilization called the Olmecs. The source of their knowledge of the cosmos is unknown, but thought to be "not of this world". There is no "End of the World" Maya prophecy; Rather, they predict an "End of the World as we know it". Great changes are expected to happen, including more natural disasters followed by a change in consciousness and a time of peace.

  

Here is a summary of my research into the Mayan Calendars and their predictions for the time leading to Dec. 21, 2012.

--------------------------



The following cycles are most relevant to what may occur in 2012. There is the 25,625 year "Galactic Day" and the 5,125 year "Long Count"(Great Cycle). Both of these are set to END and RESTART on the Winter Solstice of 2012 (11:00 UST Dec. 21, 2012):



Let's start with the "Galactic Day". As we travel around the Milky Way galaxy, it is my understanding that we do not remain at a constant distance nor at the same orientation in relation to the black hole at its center;  a black hole the Maya refer to as the supreme creator, "HUNAB KU". Instead, we move closer and further from this black hole.  As we move in closer, we simultaneously become aligned  with the Milky Way's equator or "The Tree of Life" as the Maya call it.  Upon doing so, we may become exposed to "HUNAB KU's" opposing magnetic forces which would cause our Sun to eject intense solar flares and Earth to experience a magnetic pole reversal (Pole Shift).  In the years that we have been furthest away from ,"HUNAB KU", we have been dense low vibrating energy and have been experiencing our dark spiritual years: These years have been part of the "Galactic Night".  As we move closer, we become higher vibrating energy and spiritually enlightened beings: These years pertain to the "Galactic Day". We are currently in transition from Night to Day. The complete cycle takes 25,625 years; approximately the same as what modern science has calculated and named "The Precession Of The Equinox Cycle".



Mayan Prophecy 2012: Entering Our Galactic Day

http://www.december212012.com/articles/m...



The Precession Of The Equinox Explanation (Galactic Day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gLO4f2lD...



The "Long Count" evenly divides the "Galactic Day" into five equal parts (25,625 years / 5 = 5,125 years). It is my understanding that this cycle also coincides with a natural rhythmic beat that is derived from the black hole at the center of the galaxy in the form of an energy pulse. This energy pulse presumably has multiple effects on us and our surroundings. It not only helps us to become enlightened beings for twenty years, but can reek havoc on Earth by creating larger solar flares which can bring drought, famine, earthquakes, volcanic activity, and tsunamis. Twenty years prior to this event, in a period the Maya refer to as "The Time of No-Time",  mild energy spurts, from "HUNAB KU",  create a shift in consciousness; from left-brain thinking to right-brain thinking (from logical to intuitive). This shift can be experienced all at once or gradually at first moving exponentially as we approach the end of the cycle.



Mayan Long Count (Great Cycle)

http://www.hanksville.org/yucatan/longco...



Long Count Calendar (The  Aztec Calendar Stone / Mayan Sunstone)

http://www.geocities.com/wwwtimto/gfx/su...



There is one more Mayan Calendar I could share with you called "The Nine Underworlds". It is one of the more recently rediscovered calendars and may be the most important one, in so far as the 2012 prophecies are concerned.  It is a calendar that has recorded the state of consciousness from the beginning of time (The Big Bang) to Dec. 21, 2012.  At which time, we will have supposedly consciously evolved to completeness to become co-creators with "HUNAB-KU":  It maps out "creation" if you will.   Humans will be exposed to a cosmic energy that will facilitate enlightenment. In this state of higher consciousness, we will recognize that all matter, plant, animal, mineral are bound as one. This realization will mark the end of wars.



The Nine Underworlds of Creation

http://www.mayanmajix.com/lab_F1.html



Secrets of the Mayan Calendar Unveiled (part 1 of 3)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...



Additional Sources



"The Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Consciousness" by Carl Johan Calleman, Ph.D.



"Solving the Greatest Mystery of Our time : The Mayan Calendar"

by Carl Johan Calleman, Ph.D.

Answer 12

You're obviously fairly frustrated by the whole Nibiru affair and want to try and make people see some sense.  I think the only problem is you will be even more frustrated afterwards.  Your target audience just will not listen.  I can guarantee that the first question you will get when you have finished is "but what if it is real?".

Answer 13

The tenuous claims about this "planet" making an appearance ever 3600 years, I think that's what they claim, isn't supported by any factual evidence we know of. If that were the case, there would have been mass extinctions on a more regular basis and more often than can be attributed to an outside or extra-terrestrial source.

I wouldn't give this any more credence than mankind being the offspring of an extra-terrestrial race. I'd put it in the same category as the Pheonix and other mythical occurances.