What do you think of chivalry? Guys and Girls both.?

Question

I can't stand it when a guy runs in front of me, to open a door for me just because I'm a girl and he's being chivalrous. I think it's rude, here's why.

Chivalry goes back to this idea that I personally hate, where women were believed to be intellectually inferior, but spiritually superior to men. Basically, people acted like women couldn't think for themselves, and so they needed a man to protect them and make decisions for them. As a result of this idea, women had no legal standing, or individual identity. They were always under the control of a man, like a husband, or a father, They weren't able to hold a bank account, sign a contract, or even get a loan, and they never owned their own wages, because they belonged to their husbands.

Chivalry reflects this mentality. It's saying that you need to be protected, and need to have a man make your decisions for you, because you can't.

Most people don't think like that any more, thankfully, but they still think chivalry is fine.

Why?

Answer 1

First, the chivalry thing was more about physical weakness (or so I've always assumed, that and wanting the females to like them so they'd marry them and have s*x with them).

Second, according to Miss Manners, it's silly to fret about origins of traditions; once a tradition is a tradition, it's just a thing of its own.

Third, Miss Manners has written that it seems to her that the s*x-based chivalry seems to be giving way to an age-based chivalry. (Not really relevant to your question. On another irrelevant note, in the workplace, s*x-based chivalry is wrong -- also, according to Miss Manners -- and things like door-opening should be based on rank, with "inferiors" opening doors for their bosses.)

Now, to actually address your question.

I don't mind all chivalry per se, but the whole breaking his neck to open the door (or, in one case, a guy got MAD at me for lighting my own cigarette, which was insane I though) drives me nuts.

Courteous gestures are bad, within reason.

But then, as a female, I'll also open doors for people (when it's reasonable, like, I'm right there), regardless of their s*x.

One final note: it is NOT rude; it's polite.

However you feel about it, please do NOT yell at or reprimand men who open doors and the rest. A given man has NO WAY of knowing that you hate that sort of thing. It's just not fair and puts men in a no-win situation, which is extremely rude. They get yelled at for opning doors, andfor NOT opening doors; many men complain about this, as there's no way out for them.

So, accept the curtesies, whatever you think about them. A smile or a 'thank you' won't kill you. The guy who just opened the door for you was trying to be polite; he was in no way insulting you, or implying you shouldn't be allowed to have your own bank account. Hammering someone for being polite is really, really rude and mean.

Oh, about why some think chivalry is fine is because people tend to like the little rituals they're used to.

Also, chivalry beats the frequently resorted to alternativ of shoving people out of the way to get through a door, or letting doors slam in people's faces.

Civility is pleasant.

Answer 2

Chivalry is benevolent Sexism. That places Women above Men in a hierarchy. Requiring special protection from the harsh realities of life. I will hold a door if somebody's arms are full regardless of whether they are Male or Female. That is called Civility. A dying concept also, being courteous to others.

I am reluctant to hold a door for a Woman. I got kicked in the shins once by a woman for holding a Door. I will no longer do so, unless it is clear that I would do the same for a Man.

Answer 3

Gestures that are considered chivalrous nowadays, like opening doors etc, go down big with a lot of women.  They don't personally interest me very much, though I do appreciate it when my husband does things for me that I can't do for myself, like carrying things that are too heavy for me etc.

I think you are reading too much into chivalry myself.  It's another example of feminism getting bogged down in trivia.  look, we've got equal rights, equal pay, equal everything, snipping at chivalry is the kind of thing that just gives feminism a bad name.  These gestures give a lot of pleasure to a lot of women, and some men seem to get pleasure out of performing them.  Let people enjoy them if that is what they like.

Answer 4

I think it's good manners for a guy to do stuff for a woman.  If you don't like it that's fine.  But you are wrong about chivary causing womens problems in the past.  Women were not considered equal to men, therefore not allowed to vote, or any of the other things.  Men were considered the stronger s*x, and providers of the family, women were the housekeepers and mothers.  Chivalry had nothing to do with it.  That's just what they called it when men had good manners.  You need to get your story straight.

Answer 5

The way modern boys describe "chivalry" is a component of a slight mental disorder called the Prince Charming Complex, similar to the Cinderella Complex.  In that, I see it as harmless acculturation that is kind of fun in courtship behaviors or in bedroom s*x fantasy.  But, in reality, so-called modern notions of "chivalry" are essentially a patriarchal threat.  The threat goes like this, as I've read many boys state here:  "If women reduce themselves and behave helpless and meek, I will not harm them and I will DO things for them.  If they fail to behave helpless and meek, I will slam the door in their face because any woman who does not comply with patriarchal male entitlement behaviors deserves to be abused."

REAL chivalry, though, within the modern context, runs more along this: "My girlfriend is struggling to get a promotion and big pay raise at work but she's expressed concern about not coming across as mature enough among the other married candidates wrangling for the promotion.  Her boss likes married settled-down people in management.  Sooooo, I think when I show up to see her at work today, I will actually not carry my skate board in with me and maybe I'll even wear shoes! "  lol

REAL chivalry goes that little step farther to helping someone achieve his or her OWN vision.  Sexist "chivalry", the male threat, is all about self-serving expectations and wants that men have for themselves.  Why should people have to behave a certain way to be treated with common courtesy?  Back when patriarchal expectations required that women wear corsets and deformed themselves to satisfy male social sexual fetishes for what they deemed was attractive, women were so crippled physiologically that they actually needed assistance in and out of carriages.  Men liked that, how meek and helpless crippled women were.  That's not "chivalry.  That's putrid.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/koreana/299...

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Answer 6

I think chivalry is kind, polite and sweet.  There have been times when I had my hands full of heavy stuff and struggled to open a door and would have gladly accepted help by a man or a woman--anyone!  I think we need more chivalry today, but not the thoughts that went behind it that you mention.  Yes, men and women are equal in many ways and women do have and need rights, but we can also help each other.  I don't think a chivalrous man today should be immediately labeled as chauvinistic--he's probably just being polite and helpful!  Good for him and may we have more like him!

Answer 7

I open the door for people. If you gave me c**p about it I'd slam it back in your face. What kind of self-absorbed imbecile is petty enough to give somebody c**p for opening a d**n door anyway.

Answer 8

Way I see it?

If a man offers to open a literal door for me, but ONLY on the condition that I don't attempt to enter other doors (such as the virtual doors that lead to career advancement, equal pay, etc)...then I say no thanks.

Courtesies, like love, should be unconditional.

Answer 9

So chunk of society still expects men to be knights in shining armour and you find that insulting when they rise to it?

Answer 10

It's not Chivalry for a men to open doors for women it's common courtesy!

The fact is women do need protection, I would never let one of my girl friends walk home alone in the dark - I'd make sure they got home safely. Yes some will say that is sexist, but then some will call us selfish! we cant win!!!!

Answer 11

I agree with you completely.  I know their intentions are good, but to be honest, I find it pretty insulting and condescending when guys are chivalrous to me just because I'm female.  It's so silly.  I can open my own doors, pay my own way, etc.  I don't need help just because I'm female.  

I don't see why we can't all just adopt a general politeness and civility towards each other--men towards women, women towards men, women towards women, and men towards men.  Whoever goes through the door first can open it for the next person.  When couples go out on dates, they can split the bill or alternate paying.  If you see someone with a heavy box, you can help them, regardless of your gender or theirs.

Answer 12

Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to be near doors if you think that it's wrong to open them for other people.

Answer 13

I feel morally obligated to uphold ideals of chivalry. There's no way you can change that. If you don't like that, prove to me you are not a lady and I will treat you accordingly.

It's not just being courteous to women. I try to be humble, generous, just and valiant.

Answer 14

I like the way you think. You have no double standards. Too many people in our society think that men must be gentlemen but women don't have to be ladies. That's NOT how you think. So to answer your question I think courtesy (chivalry that goes both ways) is OK, but we don't need to treat women like dopes,.. or men like apes anymore. That thinking is too "old school" for me.

Answer 15

Why don't we just call it something else then other than chivalry. It seems a lot of people are hung up on this old description of it.

I would be more concerned about what people are making the word feminist out to be.

If someone being courteous sets you off that much that you need to look up an ancient definition you really need to relax.

Common courtesy does not go out of date.

I have had women hold the door for me many times, it is not becasue i can't do it, get over yourselves!

Answer 16

I think your idea of chivalry is distorted.  I don't find it offensive at all if a man opens the dooor for me, when I do it for other people it's just called being courteous.  

Here's the definition of Chivalry:

chivalry

noun

1.  courtesy towards women  

2.  the medieval principles governing knighthood and knightly conduct  

The methods of training and standards of behavior for knights in the Middle Ages. The code of chivalry emphasized bravery, military skill, generosity in victory, piety, and courtesy to women.

Answer 17

most people think chivalry  is fine, even good, because they don't have a clue about what chivalry meant - all the things it implied, or allowed - in the TIME OF CHIVALRY.

Answer 18

It is just good manners and a sign that you were properly raised to respect women

Answer 19

I'm the kind of person who likes to hold doors open for anyone and everyone. In my mind it's not intended to be an insult. I just like helping others or being nice to others. Guys rarely give me a dirty look when I do this, but a few women do because they think I'm degradng their gender.

Answer 20

I feel the same way. It pisses me off more than anything. I will make concessions once in a while, though, because the guy I'm seeing is a firm believer in it and he becomes somewhat subdued whenever we split the check.

Answer 21

Well, I guess I'm the opposite of you.  Because though I can work with a man, and be equal to him, I do cherish chivalry, and I have a deep respect for it.  I respect a man who uses it, and I have my own female version of this that I do for mine, as well as for the male friends that I am close to.  Men deserve respect too.

Answer 22

I think chivalry is for ladies.  Feminists and men are on their own.

Answer 23

It's incredibly asinine and superficial, but it's quite effective in courting.