What do you think of the Wash. Posts article about "...anti-microbial soaps breeding tougher bugs"?

Question

Personally I have theories that over-cleaning things (ie sterilizing, bleaching, using other harsh anti-microbials, anit-fungals, anti-biotics, vaccines) we are possibly breaking down our inborn, natural true tendencies to protect our bodies.

[ie our overzealous application of "anti-" super products could possibly cause us to lose all our natural resistances, leaving us incredibly vulnerable to any kind of chemical / biological attack. How well are we REALLY protected?]

Do you believe this?

How clean is your home? (Describe briefly what products you use but not name brands or anything, just like bleach or sanitizing wipes etc)

How often are you or anyone in your household ill? stuff like colds & flus & ear infections and whatnot.

Thanks...

Oh and just for curiosity are there any mental / development / physical issues or special situations with anyone?

I appreciate your answers

Answer 1

I believe wholeheartedly that anti-bacterial soaps are only going to create tougher strains of bacteria. People don't use these soaps properly anyway, washing for a full thirty seconds, then rinsing thoroughly, etc. This will only lead to faster mutations. If the bacteria aren't completely killed, they will adapt! (The whole point of washing our hands is to wash the germs away, anyway, not to try to destroy them.) The same goes with the use of antibiotics. Doctors prescribe them too often and people do not take them for the full prescribed time period. Bacteria then mutate rather than dying as intended, hence leading to antibiotic-resistant tuberculins, etc.

Sanitizing wipes are about as useful as anti-bacterial soaps, in my opinion. 30 seconds of sanitizing may be enough to kill your run-of-the-mill staph infection right now, but that still leaves behind many other germs that don't die after that 30 seconds or so, leaving them the opportunity to adapt and mutate.

Normally, my home is somewhat cluttered. Dusting and keeping everything in its proper place, for instance, is not a high priority. I focus my cleaning mainly on the germiest areas, e.g. kitchen and bathroom, once weekly or so. I don't use sanitizing wipes or antibacterial detergents at all. We do wash our hands thoroughly with regular soap and water frequently.

Now sterilizing non-porous surfaces is a different story. If the sterilization process is done properly and effectively, we are not necessarily giving our immune systems the opportunity to become weaker at protecting our bodies from illness. (If anything, vaccines for instance actually help our immune systems to become much stronger.) We are, however, reducing the risk of NEEDLESSLY infecting ourselves with serious, potentially deadly viruses and bacteria, such as salmonella or flu. If you've ever known anyone who had a salmonella infection, you would know the suffering that people go through with such infections is absolutely horrendous! (My two-year-old son contracted salmonella poisoning from an unsanitary restaurant last year and barely lived through it.)

You needn't worry about weakening your immune system, though. Your body is constantly bombarded with bacteria, viruses, and fungi in the air we breathe and every surface we come into contact with, not to mention nearly every bite of food we eat. Your immune system gets a workout on a daily basis. How many times in your life have you touched a tree or handrail then inadvertently touched your face? Did you know that every scent your nose registers, you are actually breathing molecules of that substance directly into your nasal passages? Consider that the next time you take a walk and come across smelly doggie-doo. You're actually BREATHING IN POO MOLECULES when you pick up that stench! Gross, huh?

The point is that if sterilization of household surfaces is performed correctly, it greatly reduces the risk of infecting ourselves with germs unnecessarily, considering that we are constantly being attacked by these microscopic parasites every day. They are unavoidable unless you try to live in a bubble! ;-)

True disinfection requires bleach, ammonia, or isopropyl alcohol applied for a good 10 minutes or more to surfaces such as the kitchen sink (the dirtiest place in the house), the toilet bowl, doorknobs, counter tops and tile floors, etc. I'm not a germ freak...once a week of true disinfection of these areas is MORE than adequate, unless someone in the house is sick with a contagious virus. Being a mother, if disinfection is carried out daily during the course of the illness, no one else in the household will usually catch the virus. If I become lazy about the daily disinfection, then the virus spreads readily to others in the household.  

For your last question, people in our household usually catch a cold about once or twice a year. We live in a large city and exposure to communicable diseases is unavoidable. You know what's most interesting is that the healthiest person in our household is my 70-year-old father. My child can sneeze right in his face and he doesn't catch the cold! His immune system has had 70 years to build such strength and immunity that he only gets a cold once every FEW YEARS, if that, even though he doesn't go to any extraordinary lengths of cleanliness other than thorough hand washing with regular soap.

Answer 2

I agree with you. We are born with the best anitbodies and with all these pills, and "anti biotics are more hurtful than helpful.

Well in the 1980's my father's landlord sprayed some pesticides to stop roach's from reproducing and now my sister and I both can't have kids.

Answer 3

It's important here to distinguish selective microbial agents from non-selective.  Anti-biotic is a drug like penicillin that directly targets germs and bacteria like a selective poison.  Triclosan which is the main ingredient of anti-bacterial soap is an example of this.

Bleach, Ammonia, and salts are non-selective and pretty much kill anything if there's enough exposure, even humans.  The problem with selective poisons is that just like drug addicts build tolerance, so too can bacteria build tolerance to antibiotics.  

Although it's possible (given enough time) for bacteria to build resistances to chlorine bleach, it's definitely much more difficult to do.  Strong bases like bleach destroy the molecular bonds that hold organisms together.  It's a totally different mechanism than an antibiotic drug that targets and poisons bacteria to deliberately disrupt their metabolic functions.  

So it's less likely that disinfective and anti-septic cleaners are breeding stronger bacteria.  It's more likely that misuse of antibiotics is the real culprit.

Answer 4

All living things want to survive and propagate, so they adapt to their environment to do so. The faster and more prolifically a species can reproduce, the faster mutations will develop in the gene pool with a better adaption to survive. Gee, bacteria and viruses reproduce the fastest so I'd say your concept is spot on! I'm sure you've heard of super bugs out there now like killer staff and a new non-treatable TB. In the plant world we've created super weeds that can not be killed by herbicides because they have adapted. Ammonia is a good cleaner still, it kills just about anything and evaporates, unlike bleach which is chlorine and can be persistent in the environment in many forms after it goes down the drain.

Answer 5

I have heard this is one of the main reasons we are seeing an increase in allergies and asthma,

I have a friend that doesnt use soap at at. My mum always told me about native flora on your body, and i am an advocate for much less washing generally than we  do, as well as eating more (good ) bacc'ers eg raw milk.,

Answer 6

Every action has a reaction.Every person I've known over the years that are obsessive hand cleaners and dusters are always sniffling and sick.Same goes for those that run for flu shots and pills.

Answer 7

I have been seeing the super bug phenomenon coming ever since they began advertising all of this super antibacterial cleaning stuff.  Run around after your child spraying a bleach solution on everything he touches, etc...  It's crazy.   Children develop their immune systems by exposure to germs,  If there are no germs to expose them to as infants, when they get  in to school, they are going to catch every little cold, and sniffle that comes along.  

I have to admit, I am not supermom.  I worked full time the entire time my kids were growing up.  My house was not filthy, but it wasn't clean either.  I have firbromyalgia, and I just couldn't keep up, so my kids grew up in a cluttered, but not dirty gross, house.  Guess what?  They have been very healthy kids, and they are all grown up now.  My oldest daughter was hospitalized for the 1st time, with pneumonia, at the age of 27.  All 3 had their little bouts with ear infections and sore throats, and colds when they were little, and in day care, but otherwise they have all 3 been very healthy kids, and hardly missed any school due to illness.  My mother was essentialy the same way.  Worked full or part time, and had 5 kids to raise, and we grew up on a farm.  I have a very healty immune system, and rarely get sick from colds, or flu, etc...

I think we are asking for big trouble with the merchandising of antibacterial soaps, sprays, you name it.  It is dangerous, and will result in many bugs, mutating to the point where we won't be able to kill them.  It has already started, and is only going to get worse, especially if the media keeps advertising all this antibacterial c**p.   Somebody needs to step up and seriously address this issue, all over the media, and the sooner the better.

Why in the heck someone like me, with a little college education under my belt, (not much at all) can figure this stuff out, but those who are so highly educated don't see it until 5 - 10 years after I say it's going to happen?  I just don't get it.  Do these super educated people have no common sense or logic????   Have most people forgotten how to think for themselves these days, and just believe whatever they see on TV or read?

Answer 8

Fantastic, & interesting question!  

First background on me:  I don't have a spleen, and am HIGHLY suceptable to every cold, sinus, and flu bug that comes down the road.  I've had spinal meningitis 5 times thus far in my life.  I do not have a germ phobia...my fears about CERTAIN germs are totally based in reality for myself.  

This is one of the reasons I rarely venture off my farm...CERTAIN germs the average person carries are deadly to me, and me alone.

We live on a farm as I stated.

To clean, we use :

orange/citrus cleaner

Simple Green (sorry don't know how else to describe other than by brand name)

Baking Soda

white vinegar (kills 95% of germs)

bleach

homemade laundry soap

homemade goat milk/lye based bar soap (for hands/face/body)

liquid mint soap (all natural)

commercial soap for dishwasher (have not get formulated good homemade soap)

I'll use vinegar, or baking soda (but not both at once) to clean counters/sink.  I usually alternate.

Because we live on a farm, and do some "dirty" things I'll use bleach at times.  After we butcher an animal, and I've been processing the meat, I'll clean counters that had blood on them with bleach.  A doe had her baby kids born in the freezing rain two days ago.  I ran in with filthy tripplet kids, and dumped them on the kitchen counter, and filled the sink with hot water, so I could warm them up the fastest.  Again, all was wiped down with bleach, because they had barnyard manure stuck to them.  (they all lived and are doing fine)

I'm not at all likely to wash my hands after I've been outside feeding, or petting the animals however.  I'm constantly exposed to tiny amounts of fecal matter, with anything from a baby goat putting it's hoof directly in my mouth (accident), microscopic amounts on my hands, to wind-blown particles.

My home is tidy, but I know some people would freak out, simply because of the animals, and what can be tracked in that way.  I do not keep my house sterile, by any means.

I completely belive that we are breeding superbugs, because of our overuse and missuse of antibacterial products.  

During the raw spinach recall that happened about a year ago, I was eating that exact spinach in salads (I forgot to plant spinach in my garden!).  I didn't get ill in the slightest...because I'm constantly exposed to the germs from the animals.

I can pull a carrot dirrctly from the soil in my garden (fertilized by the manure from my rabbits) wipe the dirt off and eat it.  I'm constantly eating the foods we grow, and eating them outside without having washed them.

We also drink raw goat milk.  We are constantly exposued to this wide range of germs here on our farm.  Because of it, our immune systems are stronger.

When we have company (city people) I have to change the way I cook, and foods I cook with.  They simply do not have any natural immunities to stuff I'm exposed to constantly.  

Last year both my husband and I caught a cold.  He was ill for three days (normal immunities to colds).  I was ill with the same cold virus for 10 full weeks....I simply cannot fight them off easily.

Despite my ultra weak immune system for cold/sinus/flu I still refuse to overclean with anti-microbial products.    I know beyond a shadow of a doubt it would make the problem even worse.

I've actually never been healthier, or stronger than when I became exposed to all the farm/animal germs.  Also, because we eat organic fruits/vegtables/meats we grow ourselves, and are not eating chemicals, steroids, and antibiotics they give commercially grown plants/animals.

~Garnet

Homesteading/Farming over 20 years