What if there was no belt system?

Question

How do you think the face of the martial arts would change?

No "belt factory" dojos, no gradings, no striving just to get the next colour.

Many people go to university to get a degree rather than an education, and many people go into the martial arts to get a black belt rather than a set of skills.

Does your art have a belt system? What are your thoughts on it? Would you train at a school that did not award belts?

Answer 1

Excellent question!!!!   I wish that it was the norm.  To have all martial arts suddenly go to no ranks might just put a lot of the Mcdojo out of business. I use a rank system in my art. To give you an idea, I have several students that have been training for more than 6 years. They are not black belts. They are also not children.  As I told them when they started, "If you are looking for belt rank, you are in the wrong place".  I also tell them, "If you reach black belt with me, you will not have to ever worry about being embarrassed to wear the rank any where you go".

As for me, I'd train where there were no belt ranks, in a heart beat. That is as long as they have something useful to teach.  Besides after 41 years, I have more belt ranks and titles than I need. They meant much to me many years ago.  Now they mean little. Only my knowledge and abilities are important.  I feel that I am only as good as what I can do.   If there were no belt ranks, then everyone would be known by their abilities. That would turn things up side down for many well know martial artists. There are many in the martial arts that are looked up to as being at the top.  Without mentioning any names, there are a lot of names that we would never even have heard of if it were not for the hype that the media and rank has given them.

Answer 2

If there were no belt system, there would be no way for the dojos to fleece the student by stringing them along stripe by stripe, dojos would lose money and shut down, and martial arts will fall back into the hands of the few as it were in the 50s/60s.

I say, give the little kids, the hobbyists, and the 'need to look good' crowd the belts since they are the ones who want it the most - for everyone else, just train.

Answer 3

I think that many people would drop out as there's no "public", "ego stroking" goal.

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'm actually thinking of stopping all gi wearing, except by an instructor with my classes. We don't go around town wearing a gi so I think that might be a formality that can stand aside.

I train in a dojo that now only consists of about six people in total from Shihan to our only Shodan. I am one of those that's in it for life and the values it bestows on my life, so yes I would continue to train without a belt.

Answer 4

I DO train at a school that does not award belts.  I LOVE it.

To clarify, the younger students get belts and wear gi - the whole tradition / discipline package.

The adult classes do NOT have a belt ranking system.  There are 2 divisions - beginner and advanced.  An advanced student can be invited to become an instructor provided they have reached certain levels of competency in a given discipline.  But even the instructors have to spend a minimum of time in the beginner class, both reviewing basics and teaching new students.  

We do have tests, which include knowledge, technique demonstration, situational response, and sparring.  This is simply to give students of different levels a focus for a given stage of their training.  It is a progressive system that is constructed for giving a solid foundation - just like many belt ranking systems are.

The problem I see with not having any ranking system is that advanced students have different needs from beginning students - You can't show advanced counterstriking methods and simple stance for punching to the same group - the language isn't even the same.  

It takes a particular kind of teacher to work effectively outside the traditional belt system.  I personally don't have anything against belts per se (I hold a traditional black belt from a previous school) it's the teachers that are the problem.  There are too many frauds, and it is too easy to "create your own system" or get a black belt and other accreditation by mail.  Black belt collectors are problematic too - they'll give someone a few hundred bucks to promote them faster...it's sickening.

Martial arts instruction is not a money making venture in most cases - replacing equipment, school maintenence, insurance, legal fees, non-paying students, etc. all make it difficult to make ends meet.  And services that provide bill collection, belt rank reminders, and so on make it easy for even a decent instructor to fall into a "mc dojo" rut.  

I wish there were an effective way to qualify a school, but there are so many organizations, arts, school groups, and break-away instructors that it's impossible.  

I say Buyer Beware - a person who really wants to learn should do some research and find a qualified, competent instructor.  Just like buying a car - kick the tires, look under the hood, take a test ride - don't just buy it because the paint job is nice - if you do, it's your problem when you break down at a crucial time.

Answer 5

Martial arts would probably be better off without a rank system for the most part, since it would mostly attrack those interested in skills more than rank.  

That being said, probably some sort of simple level system for beginner, intermediate, advanced would probably be needed just to allow the instructor and other students work on the right material.

Answer 6

My instructor tells them when they come throught the door that if they are here for a belt to go to the store. At this stage in my life I would train with or without a belt. I do beleive they have some value as a short term goal, but unfortunatly it has been abused.

Answer 7

What if there was no belt system???

Many pants would fall off.

Or they would have a system like Japan before 1882 (or Judo)

Answer 8

then we get headband systems!

Answer 9

I study at Jung's Tae Kwon Do Academy.  We have a belt system, I think sometimes we test to fast, the school branch I go to started out testing every three months but was forced to go two months between test, but the instructor only let's does test who are truly ready.  

I think at one time Judo only had two belts, white and black.  I know TKD use to only have five.  But there are now 14 belts before you get 1st Dan Black Belt.  I was told there were changes in the 90s because it use to be once a student gets a brown belt, they would work to kep on getting 6 pieces of black electric tape on their belts before going to temp. black.  But a lot of parents complained that they were paying a lot of money for testing to only get a piece of tape so they added more belts.  

It today's world, kids are being brought up that they must be awarded something.  I read about a town that got ride of the all-star little league baseball team because they didn't want anyone to feel left out.  I think MA is the same way.

I wrestled for 10 years and there was no belt for class.  I would have no problem if there was no belt system but I don't see it going away anytime soon.

Answer 10

I train in Tae Kwon Do and we have  a belt system.

As the others have said, I think that if there were no more belts, then the McDojos would go out of business. People in general like rewards and seeing their efforts rewarded.

Personally, I kind of like the belt system. I like seeing how I've progressed. My goal isn't to 'get the next color' but to improve my skills and work until I reach a new plateau. The belt system just lets me know where I'm at. But I do agree that it's more about the 'striving to get to the next color thing'. It's also too much to the point of the whole thing of being a black belt isn't so interesting anymore. The whole, "Oh, my 5 year old son/pet/whatever is a 5th degree black belt. You're only a blue belt? Well, what have you been doing all those years?" The whole idea of years of hard work --- all the blood, sweat, and tears is gone.

But I'd gladly train at a school without a belt system. I think that it would weed out a lot of these lazy and not dedicated people who want to move up through the ranks so they can get their BB in a year. Not as many people would join if there weren't belts.

Answer 11

A lot of the "popcorn" schools would fall apart and go by the wayside. Which in a large number of cases would be a good thing. Look at some of the belt systems in place in some schools now a days. 15 - 20 different belts with stripes and tabs and all of this garbage. It's just excuses to have more tests and charge more money. I have tried to run a school; and it is neither cheap nor easy, but a lot of these schools are getting totally out of hand.