What is dishonest about this challenge?

Question

Here is the application and all information including a log of challengers.If it were crooked wouldn't he be sued by psychic lawyers?

http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html

Answer 1

Look at number 6 of the official rules. Why the h**l do you need a preliminary test? Either you do something paranormal or not. Then it even says that to date no one has passed the preliminary test. They have "independent experts" who assess the results of these test to determine if a person would preform as they claimed in a "formal" test. Wtf? Either you do something amazing or you don't. To me this sounds like a stone wall that is build to block anyone and everyone who might attempt this.

Then number 7 says that you have to pay for any transportation (eri if you read this BUY ME A d**n PLANE TICKET! :-p ). I just think if a person seems like they are the real deal and if I were in the business of trying to prove the existance of paranormal phenomenon and I were rich enough to give a million dollars to anyone, that I would be interested in doing anything possible to make sure a credible person has the opportunity to attempt to make history.

Then with rule 12 the offer isn't even open to anyone. You have to not only have some kind of media attention, you need a signature on a document from an accademic who wittnessed the event. What the h**l is that? "My name is George from the University of Coolige and I hear by do detest under penalty of pergery that the claims made by this person are real and legitimate." Just one more hoop to jump. Its non-sense.

He doesn't specify what constitutes as paranormal activity. He doesn't even set any grounds for what would be involved in any preliminary or formal testing. Just that all parties involved need to agree on the testing.

Is it legally crooked? No its solid like a rock. Solid enough that no one who even attempts it will ever make it past the preliminary test after "independent" experts rule out anything paranormal.

Its a bad joke. A poke in the eye at all who dare to believe in something outside the realm of current science. Its set up so no one can win and at the same time add the fact no one has won so it makes it seem like nothing paranormal really exists.

So buy me the d**n plane ticket so I can go try my luck! I need a vacation anyways.

[edit]

Why not set up walk in centers? If knowing the truth about the paranormal is REALLY that important, then why isn't it a bigger deal?

My point isn't about the money. I'm sure they have the money - if you proved a paranormal ability and he didn't pay up, thats when the psychic lawyers get sicked on him.

My point is that if you're going to realistically prove anything paranormal, you need to have the ability to test Joe Blow on the street corner who doesn't have any connections or is otherwise known in the world. A potential test subject could even be potentially mentally ill. I mean think about it. What kind of life would you have if you could do things without explaining it, but no one believed you? Some people would probably go nuts.

Honestly its not the integrity of the money that sends up red flags in my mind, its the limitations set down by the rules that make me think its pretty fony.

Then I think some people who believe they have special abilities (weather they actually do or don't) don't want that kind of attention. They don't want to prove anything. They just want to live their lives like normal people and not have everyone look at them like they're freaks or insane. And if it works for them, why should they even need to prove anything to anyone?

Answer 2

It is not the test itself that is in question as that no applicant has ever been able to have Randi agree to actual test conditions. It is the preliminary process. Of course the documented dishonesty (last link below) of Randi is also an issue in any test that he may help create or have to approve.

As you will see by the links below Randi has at least been accused of editing the logs of perspective challengers.

Several links below.

Psiexploration

Answer 3

Race said it all.  Hard to improve on that answer!

Answer 4

The rules look completely reasonable to me.

Charlatans are full of tricks and their shameless dishonesty knows no bounds.

Randi looks to be covering all the bases.  He's great!

Answer 5

I would like to add that a couple of other noted errors are that the payment in bonds is rather confusing.  And many people have been turned down the moment of contact, no "preliminary test" involved.

Answer 6

The dishonest part is that he is offering a prize for something which is impossible to do, not because of the terms and conditions of the challenge but because it is just not possible for people to levitate, dowse, read minds or whatever else it is that they are claiming.

If you really could do those things you wouldn't need Randi's stamp of approval - it would be self evident.

Answer 7

It is not a matter of dishonest, but very limited: Rule # 12.

It is also very foolish on the part of the applicant to accept if they have a functional method of controlling mental abilities: Rule # 4, any information in reference to the testing becomes property of the randi organization to do with what they please. That would be the equivalent of giving them free access to a patent that one holds.

As for legal action, Rule # 8: "..., the applicant surrenders any and all rights to legal action..."

The rules are so subjective that the randi organization cannot loose even if they had to pay, they can profit either way. If someone were to "win", they then have control over the "winners" information. If there is no "winner", they have the publicity of saying no one met their challenge.

You would have to be a "looser" to accept and "win" the challenge, due to everything you would forfeit.

It is not dishonest, simply calculated control and shrewd business.

Answer 8

The link doesn't tell me if Randi is honest or dishonest. I think he knows that psychic stuff only happens sometimes. He could make a test nobody could pass. I don't think he is crazy and wants to just give away a million dollars. This guy has been sued sometimes too. There is one thing I am sure of. He really needs to lose some weight for his own good. That million ain't gonna help him if he dies from a heart attack!

Answer 9

James Randi doesn't have a million dollars to give away, so don't think you'll ever get the money. Randi also has been known to ignore mountains of evidence presented to him over the course of his life. Don't expect him ever to admit he's wrong if he sees something he cannot fit into his model of reality.

It's a very serious and sad thing to see people like Randi bring interesting research-worth phenomena into disbelief by pretending to hold up scientific rigor, and dismissing them on pure prejudice.

Answer 10

There isn't anything dishonest about the challenge. They simply work out in advance what you claim to do and how it can be proven. Both parties agree to the terms beforehand.

The bottom line is that nothing paranormal has ever succeeded.

Answer 11

Read it carefully, it is full of conditions that make it nearly impossible for just about anyone to apply.    It clearly says, "This offer is not open to any and all persons".   No applications are accepted by anyone that doesn't have a media presence.  Ok, that lets out about 99.9% of people that would accept the challenge.    How can you say this whole thing isn't crooked?

Answer 12

The terms are very clear, it is scrupulously honest and fair.  Challengers AGREE to the rules when they apply

The million dollars exists in an escrow account at Sachs Goldman.  It isn't Randi's personal money, most of it came from donations from skeptics.

Why in the h**l should he pay the airfare of every spoonbender who thinks they can fool a master illusionist?

Randi simply asks paranormalists what it is they claim they can do, they agree between them in advance what a fair test of that would be and a preliminary test is done. If they pass that, then the formal challenge is done.  Most people don't even get past the preliminary phase because they can't perform their magic when they don't control the setup.  (eg. Geller can't bend spoons if he is prevented from having access to them ahead of time.)

They use controls so that people can't cheat, but the controls are agreed to by the paranormalist in advance.   The tests are conducted by people other than Randi, because paranormalists often claim they fail because skeptics give off "negative energy"

Randi still has his million because no paranormalist has ever succeeded in doing under controlled conditions what they claim to be able to do.  

For all the bitching and  whining the psi community does about Randi, and the sour grapes , if one of them would just step up to the plate, and do what they claim to do every day...they could take Randi's money, make him look like a fool, and donate it to charity if they like.   They would become the most famous psychic in history.

If you claim you can douse for water or metal or whatever.  What is unfair about having you actually do it under controlled conditions where neither you nor the tester knows where the water may be hidden?  Look at some of the Youtube videos of tests Randi has done in the past.  Read about Project Alpha that made a fool of the psi testers in the 1980's

If there really was anything to psi, after studying it for 150 years, you'd think there might be something solid by now.   Look at the progress made in physics alone in the last 150 years.  Psi experimenters are still having people guess symbols with success rates no better than random guessing would predict.

Answer 13

People don't seem to be really understanding how this works.  First of all, he's got solid proof of the money right there.  Don't believe him?  It's in an escrow account at Goldman Sachs.  Ask them.  If you win, they turn it over to you, not him.  The test is set up so that the answer is evident - no judging required.

The preliminary test is to rule out someone getting lucky.  A one in a million chance might happen once, but not twice.  So the test would be done twice.  If you can do what you claim, that wouldn't be a problem.  If you're counting on getting lucky, it will be a problem.

Look at the logs.  Everyone who has been tested proposed what they could do and fully agreed ahead of time that the testing conditions were perfectly fair and were convinced they would succeed.  And they lost, every time.  Because they had been fooling themselves.