What should Andromeda galaxy look like in 4" refractor?

Question

I "think" i found the Andromeda Galaxy for the first time in my 4" Refractor scope. I basically found a fuzzy glowing blob. I was expecting at least a little bit of detail on the spiral arms, but i tried my 25mm, 15mm, and 6mm eyepieces and all I got was the glowing fuzzy slightly oval shape. Should I be able to get more detail than this? I double checked on my Stellarium star chart program, and it shows a very very small nebula cloud near Andromeda, is it possible i was looking at that instead?

Answer 1

It should look just as you have described it, like a faint fuzzy oval. Your eyes cannot absorb light like a camera does. The photographs you see are time exposures takin any where from a few minutes to a few hours.

Answer 2

M-31 is a huge glowing oval with a star like nucleus, but the disk around the nuclear bulge is quite diffuse and faint. Spiral arms are subtle in this galaxy, look for the sudden drop offs in brightness where the dust lanes are. You need a very dark site to see the dust lanes, without one even a 10 or 12-inch will not reveal them from a light polluted or hazy site. Bigger telescope do make seeing the dust easier, but they have been spotted with 4-inch refractors. There are two satellite galaxies orbiting M-31 that are visible in a low power eyepiece at the the same time. M-32 is small but bright, whereas M-110 is about the same magnitude but is much larger than M-32. That means it is fainter and more diffuse. The very small nebula you saw was most likely M-32, but be aware M-110 is on the opposite side of M-31. Look for it next time you observe M-31 from a dark site, you might see it's not quite elliptical shape due to M-31's gravity tugging at it. When you get a chance, look at M-31 with a large telescope and check out NGC-206 in the southwestern end of M-31, which is a massive star cloud. You can also start to see M-31's globular clusters as well, the brightest called G1 might be just visible in a 4-inch refractor.

Answer 3

It sounds like you've got it right.

You're not going to see the same detail in a 4" refractor that is visible from a long-exposure photo taken with a much larger telescope.

Even with my 10" short-focus reflector, the views don't begin to compare with published photos. The difference is that YOU are actually SEEING the real deal.

I've shown many people the planet Saturn through my telescope. And even though the view through a small refractor can't compare with a two-page spread in National Geographic, they're always impressed with having actually seen the real planet with their own eyes.

Answer 4

That's about right: a fuzzy blob. It's the same for the best globular clusters, too. Fuzzy blobs, all of them. I use a little 8x40mm monocular, and on dark nights I can see M31, M4, M22, NGC 6523, and suchlike stuff. I can split double stars down to about 35 arcsec. I'm waiting for winter so I can see the Pleiades. On the next Mars opposition, I'm going to make observations for figuring out its orbit with the method of Gauss (just for the exercise), unless I find an asteroid to do that for instead.

Answer 5

First, congratulations, you've found the Andromeda Galaxy.

It depends more on your skies than your telescope.  I get a fuzzy blob in my 10 inch reflector from home.  My driveway, the Mercury Vapor Observatory, is inside the light dome that is Detroit, has a street light next to it, and across the street are the flood lights of a grocery store.  A 20 inch scope won't do better.

But a 4 inch in very dark skies will let you see the expansive elliptical stretch of the outer parts of the galaxy, with m32 and m110 as bright as day.  Under dark skies, i've seen m31 naked eye.  You only get to see the blob, though.

It's all about contrast.  If the surface brightness of the bit you want to see is not as bright as your local sky, you simply won't see it.

The clear dark sky clock has a light pollution map feature.  Find an observatory near you, and examine the map for darker skies.

I've not found a light pollution filter that will help you out.  Galaxies are rather broad spectrum.

You may be able use a Lumicon oxygen 3 filter with your 4 inch to see the Veil, and lots of other nebulae under high light pollution.

Answer 6

With a 4" objective, you're doing very well to be able to see a fuzzy blob.  You don't have that much light-gathering power with a 4" objective, so your skies must be very dark and clear.

I've used a 10" reflector, and not seen much more than a fuzzy blob.  But then again, I live on the northeast coast of the U.S., and the skies aren't really dark anywhere near me.

As others have said, to see the kind of detail you'd see in photos in astronomy magazines, you need a MUCH larger objective, plus a long exposure to bring out the fainter stars.

Answer 7

You are probably seeing the Andromeda Galaxy. Despite being close by, the Andromeda Galaxy shows very little detail except in a very large scope. Generally the most I can see in my 11" is a dark band where one of the spiral arms passes in front of the nucleus. Most of the time, all we can see of Andromeda is the bright featureless nucleus; the spiral arms which appear in images are too dim to be seen visually with small telescopes.

There are many galaxies which show much more detail than Andromeda, such as M82, M51, and M104.

Answer 8

yes, that sound about right. what was the basis for your expectations?

m32 and m110 should be apparent. you'll need a lot bigger scope to see anything: i can see the main dust lane geoff mentioned clearly in my 12", and hope to go globular hunting next star party with my 18".

how good are your skies, btw?

Answer 9

I think it should look like an Omlette.

Answer 10

your guess might be correct because in some ways the Adromeda can be described as the way you have illustrated it so your very good:)