What would it take for you to change your mind?

Question

Theists: You always tell us atheists that we cannot prove there is no god. However, the burden of proof is not on us, but on you. And for many reasons, I think we can say with 99,99 % certainty that there isn't one. But that is not my point..

My point is this:

What WOULD you take as evidence that there is no deity..? Would there be anything that could make you change your mind and become atheists? And if there isn't.. Wouldn't that suggest that you're holding on to extremely irrational beliefs, which are not connected with reality in any way?

Personally, i would always be open to change my mind if new evidence came to the surface. All it would take for me to become a theist would be a tiny bit of divine intervention.. Let god(s) show me a true miracle! Disobey some natural laws! Or give me ANY other sort of definite evidence that a deity exists..

Can you say you are equally flexible? Or would you still believe NO matter what..? If you cannot take earthquakes, tsunamis, birth defects and grotesque diseases as evidence that at least if there is a god, it probably doesn't give a d**n about us, then I don't know what would be sufficient...

(Actually, if the existence of a deity was proven and I were to become a theist, I would probably have to become a maltheist instead of a regular one because of such things.)

Thoughts?

Answer 1

"If you cannot take earthquakes, tsunamis, birth defects and grotesque diseases as evidence that at least if there is a god, it probably doesn't give a d**n about us, then I don't know what would be sufficient... "

The problem here is that people define God as separate from us.  God is in everything and in all of us.  

Answer 2

As your fellow questioner, I remind you that the burden of proof is also on you.

Rather, according to the laws of logic, one cannot prove OR disprove the existence of a deity.  It takes just as much faith to believe that there is no God as it does to claim the opposite.  Absence of evidence is not proof, just absence of evidence.

I think that no matter what evidence either side offers, the true believers on both sides will stick to their guns for the most part.

Many other people I have spoken with (on both sides) have been open minded and eventually been convinced that the other side makes more sense.  The thing is, the things that changed their minds are largely personal, so there is littler that their stories can do to help you figure out where you stand.

Philosophy is an endeavor that is equal parts empirical and rational, each without the other is mostly useless.

Answer 3

Exactly. It seems as if science keeps proving them wrong time and time again, but they're still holding onto these beliefs.

It's because that's how they were raised to believe, or it's just how Theists think. The Bible teaches to believe no matter what...so in their minds, why should they stop?

It's a sad, sad world...but I guess it's how some of the weaker people stay put together. Imagine how many people would just assume there's nothing to live for if they finally understood that God doesn't exist.

As for me, I'm very open-minded. If I ever saw proof of God, I'd believe. But since there IS no proof and it's just irrational, I just can't grasp Christianity, or any other religion for that matter. It doesn't make sense...so the day I see something to prove God's existence, that'll be the day I start believing.

Answer 4

Interesting in your, what I perceive to be, forcefulness. Much as a thesist insistence on a god.

I am pretty sure none of us will know until we die who wins the argument.

I am more concerned about what I do know. Or what I think I know. And I am going to try and live my life on that information.

If there is a  god I am his/her/its worry. I am sure I am not its.

Be there a god or not I must try, as best I can, to make myself as best I can, to care for others and make this world a better place.

I do not know, if believing in a god would serve me any better.

Answer 5

There is no burden of proof for God. If there is, one has simply taken his throne. I don't need to prove my faith to anyone but myself and my God. I have no responsibility to provide evidence of what I believe, other than through my acts and deeds. Those matter the most. Just because I could draw a picture of God, that doesn't mean someone else will see the same picture. But, it is really a waste of time anyway, since the second commandments forbids us from making images. What picture of God would satisfy you? How would I know how truthfully you are seeking him? I can't read your mind.

I believe that I have as much evidence as I am going to get for my faith. And, even another Christian can rightly or wrongly disagree with my view. I think God has shown a miracle in that I have presence of mind to carry out my desires, wants and needs, as sinful as they may or may not be.

I'm flexible. But, I don't want to be fickle. Let us remember the .1% chance, in your view, that there is a God. I look at it differently. Logically, I would require a mounatin of evidence to prove there is no God because of my zeal toward my faith. And, if God didn't care so much, he would not have created the people that die in the first place. The earth was cursed in Genesis.

I, unlike many Christians, don't doubt the intelligence of others. I doubt intentions, sincerity of heart, open displays of piety, and most of all, people who say that there IS a God, but it can't be the Christian ones. The latter is not motivated by hatred. Rather, they have as little evidence to support their boisterous claims as I do for my own. And, the Bible tells me to trust God over mere men. This is how the Roman Catholic Church as going tragically wrong. It's all human doctrine based on opinion of God's word. It's like any other religion. But, faith, intrinsically is more important that extrinsic worldly religion. If the truth is not in me. Then it's all meaningless.

Therefore, I'd rather shine a light in the darkness of this earth while I can. If nothing else, I can see where I'm going, instead of walking entirely in darkness and pretending to know it all.

Answer 6

I used to be an atheist. There is no way I would ever go back into that darkness.

Answer 7

In religion they are told to have faith and believe in what they cannot see,

I went to church from 5years old until my early teens.

Later on I stopped going because I questioned some interpretations of the bible, and wondered how there can be soo many religions when there was only one book of God.

Was it a way to control the masses? Many of the population are better people because of religion by following the ten commandments, and that can't be a bad thing.

Logically I can't prove that there is a God and question his existence as portrayed in the bible.

I believe we as human species caused many of the problems we have now through polluting the world, and eating substandard food laden with chemicals.

I never believed "God" was up there with a magic wand deciding who was to be tortured in this life and who wasn't, it's something we control as a whole.  

I was taught that the lord was here to teach us love, patience and understanding, and acceptance of one another and that we were to continue living by those teachings. (whether he was a pot smoking passerby who knows! lol)

I was also taught that what I was to pray for was strength, understanding, hope etc, not to win the lottery or win over a lover.

So I am in a dilemma about my beliefs, in one way I could not imagine what the state of this planet would be without people who follow the word of God etc. Although I cannot even prove to myself that he exists.

  

Answer 8

A surprising number of posts above rely on confirmation bias:  God did good things in my life, so he must be good.  Of course, they ignore all the bad things that happen in their life.

A bunch of them say they don't need reason because they only need faith to believe in God, which is just ridiculous.  I have no idea how they can swallow that claim: it's like their God is a fantasy being that doesn't have to follow reality.

One uses karma, which also results from psychological biases.

A couple say that atheists also have a burden of proof, which may be true, but that doesn't prove that God exists.  Otherwise you could also say that the FSM exists.  You can however use Occam's razor to show that all the gods extremely unlikely.

Also, atheists can prove the Christian God completely false, because the bible goes against scientific evidence, yet Christians still try to use the "you can't disprove God" argument as if they believed in a pantheist or deist God instead of the ridiculous Christian God.

Btw, you have mail. :D

____

Answer 9

This is one of those arguments that gets us nowhere.  To begin with, there is an assumption that I have to prove the existence of God.  It's not my job to prove any such thing.  My belief in Him is between us.  If you have a question, such as this one, I will do my best to answer it as well as I can, with respect and charity.

Second, there is a problem with the term "reality."  For believers, reality does not consist solely of what we can perceive around us with our senses or our technology.  I can make a good case for that.  How many elements have been added to the periodic table in your lifetime?  In your parents' lifetime?  There is endless evidence around us that there is more to existence than what we know.  Even now we stumble upon new kinds of matter that we didn't know was there a few years ago.

Perhaps some day our scientific tools will enable us to prove the existence of God.  Perhaps not.  I have enough proof for myself.  I didn't just pull some lame notion out of the air.  But, it is not the type of empiric proof that is of use to anyone but myself.  So, I just answer questions to the best of my poor ability and let God take care of the rest.

Hope this helps.  God bless.  But since you don't believe in God, how about Good Luck?

Answer 10

You cant please everyone. there would be always some people who do not view the same way as you.

i believe in God but i am not narrow minded like some christians tend to be these day. i am also not your typical christian coz for 1 i am g*y

Answer 11

Outstanding question, and just to back you up and to prove how irrational christians are, I too would believe if there were any proof that god existed, but there isn't :(  Everytime we ask for proof we get stupid answers like : "Bullsht 3:16 says that god is real", or "look around you, thats proof god exists"

Great Gig - Why?

Answer 12

So I've sat here and stared at your question for a good while now.  I'm trying to consider what exactly it would take to turn me into a non-believer.

I don't exactly have a down pat answer for you, because I don't know.  But I will say, with complete honesty, that if my husband ever started beating me on a regular basis again it would seriously call into question my faith.

You see, the day my husband became a Christian he never raised a hand to me again.  That's really all the proof I need personally to believe that Jesus Christ is real.  We've been married 9 years now.

So...that's all I can give you right now.  I really hope people don't give me a thumbs down because I'm just being as honest as possible here.

Answer 13

God has done so much for me for me to ever believe that He is not real.

Let me elaborate for some of you who have emailed me.  God has...

*forgiven me of my sins,

*saved me from eternity in h**l,

*healed me of asthma as a teen,

*put my husband and I together,

*healed my womb and my husband and I had a son after the doctors said it was never going to happen,

*healed my mother and grandfather of cancer,

*healed my dad from a sever heart attack,

*delivered me from alcohol and drug addiction and self mutilation,

*saved my sons life when he became tangled, choked and dragged by his neck at 3 years old,

*set many of my friends free from similar bondages that I was in

*gave my family a beautiful log home on 8 1/2 wooded acres (and when I say gave...I mean gave as in $0.00 spent)

*gave me a car (for $0.00) so that I could start college

*got me through college so that I became the first in my family to graduate college

*kept me safe while in the Army

I could on and on, but I think I've said enough for now.  I'm not going to argue w/ those that don't believe there is no glory it.  And getting "thumbs down" does not bother me.  I'd rather have God's approval then any of yours'.

P.S.

to Cfiziksh [Atheati Overlord] ...

All the bad things in my life came from my own doing NOT God's.  I made my choices and I answered for them.  It was God that delivered me from them NOT the One that caused them.

Answer 14

This, is a well thought out and articulated question. I agree with you wholeheartedly... all it would take is one small divine intervention, or proof that god is real.. and i will happily admit that i have been wrong and humbly apologize.

The proof, that has been offered to me thus far, is not infact proof at all, a book that says that god is real is not proof. There has been no divine intervention at all (or at least that i know of, and i am pretty sure if there was i would know about it) Prayer has been proven not to work.

So what else is there?  

I find it interesting that most atheists would happily admit to god if the idea was credible, where as many christians explicitly deny any arguments that go against religion.. "there is a god, there is there is there is, i dont care what you say", i hear them cry.

And you say us atheists are the narrow minded ones..

sorry for my rant... excellent question.

Answer 15

What harm is it to believe, no one is pressuring you to believe. If proven wrong I have lost nothing, but, if proven right, I have everything to gain and you have lost everything, most importantly your soul. So I'm in a win win situation. How about you. God bless you.

Answer 16

That is beautifully worded question. I too am open to change. If God were to reveal himself to me inexplicably i would have to believe .Or except that my mind has finally gone.

I already know the type of answers youll get. God did this and God did that. Thats just people equating good things that happen (to everyone) with God.

Answer 17

No, I really couldn't say that I'd be flexible.

Like, a lot of people, their belief in God is ingrained into them since they were old enough to talk.

A child has trust in everything, and sometimes that trust can carry on through their entire life (trust in God, I mean)

Me, I'm not very religious. I sometimes go to church but I usually can't be bothered. I try not to take the Lord's name in vain, but I do. I try to be good but I'm not.

But if any proof came up, I'd still believe in God.

Oh, and all those malformation things, man, it's like karma. Their parents probably did something bad.

Yeah, and I'm probably the only Catholic who can admit that we've all been spoonfed our beliefs and manners and ways of thinking.

That mindless trust is cute, but it's not necessarily a good thing. I'm sometimes scared to NOT go to churh in case something bad happens to me.

But yeah, whatever happens, God all the way.

Answer 18

Yes, I am flexible, but the fact is since I have experienced the divine, I don't see how I will one day unexperience it.

BTW, my faith is not dependent upon the gods "giving a d**n about us."  My religion is not an attempt to find some happy fairy god to add sprinkles to my life.  Its about seeking out knowledge of what is out there, relating to it and dealing with it.  Reality can often be harsh.  It is perfectly reasonable to presume the gods are the same.  I don't see the gods as generally malicious, just as I don't see a hurricane as malicious.  It simply is.  Humans are not the center of the universe, and oftentimes they get swept up in grander forces than themselves.

Jessica: Science does not prove the gods wrong.  It merely proves certain (usually narrow) views of the gods wrong.