When hiking in Cougar country would a 357 mag., 180 gr flatnose be adequate from a 2 inch barrel?

Question

Most federal lands prohibit firearms but to hike in areas with bears and highly predatory mountain lions I feel that one needs to carry protection on their person. Also, would a .45 long colt, 4 inch barrel, be better than a .357? What about a .44 special? I own each of these and do not want to buy another firearm so which of the three mentioned should I take with me and what load would be best?

Answer 1

For the big American cats any of the three will do as they are not as hard to put down as their African cousins.  If all you have there is Black bear that .357 Mag. w/180 grain hunting rounds would be my minimum choice.  If there are bigger bear then make the minimun the .45 (Long) Colt with a .44 Magnum or even a .454 Casull being even better.

Happy hiking.

H

Answer 2

357 is great choice for cougar country.

Cougars are stealth hunters and may attack you before you even know they are there.

You are wise to have a good knive that is easily accessible too.

From others comments, I agree. Make sure you can shoot that .357. that 2 inch barrel is not going to take much of the recoil out and may be tough to handle.

I had one with a 4 inch barrel and it was just too much to shoot well. I got rid of it because I just wouldnt carry it.

I've since opted for the Kimber .45 when I'm out in the wild.

Greg Jackson

Tigard, OR

http://www.JaxonsGottaGun.com

Answer 3

the 357 magnum looses a lot of power from a 2 inch barrel, but then cougars aren't bears, and pretty much any handgun will easily dispatch them if are able to land a vitals hit.  The same can't be said of bears.  Bears are big and thick, with thick hide, a nice layer of fat, and vitals deep in their chests.

A 44 special might be a good choice, as would a 45 long colt in a 4 inch barrel.  IF, and only if, you have a strong modern revolver (like the Colt Anaconda, Ruger Black/Redhawk, SmithandWesson 25, etc) you can get 45 Long Colt that are loaded to surpass the performance of a 44 magnum!

Even shy of that, you can get 44 special and 45 long colt that are loaded to much higher pressures. Again, longer barrels are needed to to capture these increases, so choose whichever one of these two has at least a 4 inch barrel and is strong enough to handle the pressure, and then get some 'Buffalo Bore' ammuniton

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/de...

Finally, this is a good example of why you need to name the exact model and sub-model (barrel length) of your firearms, not simply name what ammo you put in them.  What would be good advice for a Colt Anaconda will blow up a Colt Single Action and probably take an eyeball with it.

Answer 4

I agree with the others here; any of those will kill a mountain lion. A whole lot of them were killed with 44 special before the 357 became popular.

Now that 45 long colt can kill them also, a whole lot of them died in the old west from that round.

Like the others brought up, what about bears? You might consider that. If there are no Grizzlies or brown bears around then the 357 would be great or a hot 45 long colt would be even better IF your gun can handle it, some cant.

44 spl with the right round is ok for black bear, but here again it be nice to have it heavy and hot and some handguns are too light for those.

If you have brown bears or griz around; 44 magnum minimum, with heavy flat nose hard cast 320 gr bullets in a medium length barrel or longer.

The .480 Ruger, 500 S&W and the .454 Casull would be even better.

Remember being able to hit the animal in a lethal spot is the must. So if you cant hit with tha gun its worthless. Also the shorter the barrel the less accurate you will be but the longer the barrel the slower to deploy. I don’t like snub nose for dangerous animals, you don’t get the full power of the round and you have to be close. I don’t like *close* with any charging animal. I want to be able to blow it into next Tuesday, BEFORE its on me. A lion can leap over 25 feet with ease. So if it does leap, you may be shooting an airborne lion coming at you. This is where you had better practice a h**l of a lot no matter what you pick to pack.

Hope some of this helps.

Answer 5

DON"T get a .500S&W Mag. the things so heavy you'll hike around in circles.

Answer 6

Any one of these guns would do with proper ammo. I would look into ammo made by buffalo bore. They make ammo for short barreled guns. You will see that they push high speed hard cast 158 grain bullets for the 357. The speeds are impressive, and the rounds are designed for snubbies. Buffalo bore also makes a really powerful plus p round for the 45 colt. It is not good for all guns, only modern ones built buy specific gun makers; their web will explain it all. I use them in a 44 mag. If I were to choose, I would probably want the bigger bore of the 44 special or the 45 colt. Again, you can push a 255 grain hard cast lead bullet out to 1000 fps in the special with buffalo bore. Hard cast bullets tend to go faster than jacketed bullets under similar pressure. This is because they self lubricate. You dont need a jacket in a gun unless you start pushing 1500 fps or so. And even then, a gas check resolves the problem of lead build up in the barrel. Also look into Grizzley Ammo. This company also produces lead bullets for big game.

I shoot a 45 colt, a 44 mag/special, and .357. I would say that the best choice would be the larger bores then the .357.

Also it might be a better choice to pack the gun you hit better with, IE a longer barrel.

And to finish, might I suggest selling one or two of your guns to buy a 500SW mag in a 4 inch, or at least a 44 mag with a 6 inch. Both these guns put 300 grains of lead out at over 1300 fps; the 500 at a blistering 2000 fps. Lets remember that if you hike a lot, you may have an encounter. Some things are more important than saving money. A cat can be killed with all three of your guns, but they are a bit underpowered for brown bear.

Good luck and stay safe

Answer 7

A .357 with 2" barrel may hurt you more than the cougar. I have owned .357's with 2.75", 4", 6" and 8.375" barrels. I quickly traded off the one with the 2.75" barrel. Power and accuracy are greatly reduced and recoil and muzzle blast are greatly enhanced. Such a Magnum needs a long barrel to burn the powder in usual loads, so I do not advise anyone to buy .357. .41 or .44 magnums with such short barrels. I would carry the .45 colt with 4" barrel if I was you, and trade in that .357 snubbie for one with 4" or 6" barrel. They have more power than the one you own and can be protection against a cougar, but a 2" barrel is doubtful. I would not bet my life on it. EDIT: I urge you to set up NRA targets at 25 yards and test both of your revolvers to see how accurate they are. You want to shoot any cougars before they approach too closely, after all. Keep some targets for reference. i bet the .45 with 4" barrel is more accurate. Test both guns on telephone books, magazines, trees, etc. to see how powerful they are. Few people on here know much about ballistics (or accuracy), I have observed. I cannot find precise figures, but a .357 loses much power in a 2" barrel. You can see that if you test it. I do not want you to be mauled by a cougar, so I try to give you the best advice I can. I see many bad answers on all categories, and some people cannot distinguish nonsense from the truth. I see 4 people gave me thumbs down, but I say I know more than they do. 2 more gave me thumbs up. I just got a best answer in this category. I have used handguns since I was age 11, and I did not like the 2.75" barrelled .357 Ruger I owned. Now, I own a S&W "M-586" with 4" barrel that is much better in power and accuracy.

Answer 8

The 357 snubby would be the lightest weight handgun for hiking. I'm curious about the choice in ammo though. I  believe I would load up with 125 JHP.

Answer 9

Who have you been talking to? Most federal lands have no problem with firearms, legally possessed in the usual ways. Just stay out of the actual designated Parks with them, whether state or federal. Of course, check with the Forest Service or BLM rangers to see what exceptions and special situations might be happening locally, and always ask for a fire permit, whether you plan to use it or not. They will be pleased that you are responsible, and follow rules. Now the use of the big 180 grainer in any 357 is controversial, the 158 to 160 grain bullets being considered the "big ones". You will have little velocity on the big 180 grain ingot from the snubbie, and certainly no expansion at all unless bone is hit. The Felis Concolor is a thin-skinned beast, and it's nervous system is fragile. A 158 grain bullet is plenty, even from a snubbie. However, I would handload a maximum load of Bullseye powder, an extremely fast powder, to maximize performance in a vented 2 inch tube. Disturbingly, no reloading manual lists such a load, although such 38+P loads are listed widely, which shows they are safe, just not traditional.....yet. From interpolation of all data from many sources, I would use 6 grains of Bullseye from Alliant as a starting load, and work up slowly, keeping an eye on any flattened primers or other indicators of pressure. If this plan is too "rad" for you, Speer quotes 7.3 grains of Hodgden Universal Clays as a maximum load for the 158 grain jacketed bullets, which is a fast powder, with greatly reduced muzzle flash to avoid blinding yourself in poor light conditions. Now, the 45 Colt with any medium weight hardcast bullet at standard pressures will be just fine. If it is a Ruger, you can jack up the steam to create a safety margin. The same is true of the 44. May I also suggest Ham Radio? The licenses are really easy to get these days. Mountaintop Ham repeaters are everywhere, and regular cellphones don't do any good in the wilderness. A Ham walkie-talkie here at ocean beach San Francisco easily hits Mt. Diablo, for solid coverage from Redding to Bakersfield! Or another repeater with internet hookup worldwide! But that's getting into bragging. Wilderness safety cheaply says Ham Radio (ARRL.com/). Regards, Larry. (KB7RI)

Answer 10

For that cartridge you will get better performance from a 6 inch barrel. It should take out a cougar with no problem.

Answer 11

.357 is sufficient caliber but I'd be wary of what I could hit with only 2 inches of tube.

Answer 12

Yes, the .357 is enough, but I carry one of my Glocks, either the 20 or 29, because I like the 10mm power. I reload my own ammo and currently am using 190 grain bullets that get 1200 feet per second.

I will also break stupid gun laws that put my life at risk. Such laws are unconstitutional and I have no respect for laws that don't respect my rights.

Answer 13

158 grain jacketed hollow point in 357 Magnum for your Cougar.* They are short winded.* Aim for the heart & lungs.*

Answer 14

I concur with most of the other answers here. while the 357 mag would make an excellent defense sidearm for cougar, the muzzle blast  is fearsome from a 2"barrel. and with the load you suggest? I wouldn't want to shoot it! If you want to carry the snub, I would suggest carrying the 125gr jhp, the same #1 man stopper for human defense. cougars are fairly thin skinned and app. the same size as the average human. this round would give you more velocity, less recoil and muzzle jump, and still hit plenty hard for a cougar. back up shots would be quicker as well, if the need arose.

the other guns you have would work equally well, but would be harder to carry while backpacking.

Answer 15

The 357 is a great pistol but the 2 inch barrel doesn't do well for accuracy and when your life is on the line you want to hit what you are shooting at I prefer a 41 MAG with a 6 inch barrel it will hit them and blow a huge entrance hole in them and the exit wound is very large but out of the guns you listed I would carry the 45 long colt it will do the job very well