Who do you think is older? Anne Boleyn or Mary Boleyn? And why do you pick that person?

Question

HISTORICAL FACTS (The Tudors and The other Boleyn Girl have many inaccuracies to the history line of events):

Queen Anne Tudor nee Boleyn- Is supposedly born between 1500-1507.

Lady Mary Carey-Strafford nee Boleyn- Is supposedly born between 1499-1508.

-In 1512 Anne is sent to the Netherlands and is called "La petite Boleyn", due probably to her young age. The typical age was 12, Anne was reportedly younger then that. In 1514 she left for France.

-In 1514, Mary Boleyn who is between the ages of 07-15 she is sent as maid-of-honour to Princess Mary Tudor, who was going to Paris to marry King Louis XII of France. After a few weeks, many of the Queen's English maids were ordered to leave but Mary Boleyn was permitted to remain, probably because of her father's connections as the new English ambassador. Mary Boleyn stayed at the court of the new king and queen, Francis I of France and Claude of France.

-In 1520 the Field of Cloth of Gold, a great tournament where King Francis I of France meets King Henry VIII is watched by Anne Boleyn. This is the first time Henry may have seen Anne Boleyn, but wasn't taken by her.

-In 1519 Mary returns home from France, it widely believed she had an affair with Francis I of France. On Feb/4/1520 she marries William Carey. She is most likely 18-21 years of age. (Had she been in an later date such as 1508 and up she would had been a child when she had an sexual affair? with Francis I of France.)

-In 1522 Anne returns to England after 7 years in France and

becomes lady-in-waiting to Queen Catharine of Aragon.

March 1: The first documented appearance of Anne Boleyn at the English Court when she was listed amongst the players in a masque pagaent.

-1525? Henry VIII has a brief affair with Mary Boleyn. Mary falls pregnant with child. In March if 1526 Mary bores a son. Is disputed that her son is infact the King's other b*****d son. However like his acknowledged b*****d son, Henry doesn't regard Henry Carey as his son. Possibly because he is in passionate love to point of obsession with Anne Boleyn and may want nothing to do with Mary or "their" son.

-Between 1522-1524 Anne meets and falls in love with Henry Percy a nobleman who served in Cardinal Wolsey's retinue. The couple become betrothed but are split up by Cardinal Wolsey on the orders of King Henry VIII who wants Anne for himself, who he begans to lust for.

-1532 Lady Mary Carey, who is now the widow Carey (her husband died in 1528 of the sweating illness) was one of thirty ladies who accompanied King Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn on a visit to Calais in France known as 'The Field of the Cloth of Gold'

-1532 Anne get the title of Marquess od Prembroke and in December or possibly Janurary 1533 Anne is pregnant with her first child.

-1533 Mary becomes lady in waiting to her sister, Anne the Queen of England.

-1533 Anne give birth to baby girl: Elizabeth on September 7th.

-1534 Mary secretly marries William Strafford. Anne banishes her from court. The two most likely never see each other again.

-1534-1536 Anne suffer about 2 or 3 miscarriages. In 1536 Henry is no longer interested in Anne, but her Lady in waiting Jane Seymour. Anne is arrested on many false charges including incest with her brother George, witchcraft and treason. She is beheaded on May 19th, 1536. She is 29-35/36 years old.

-Mary Strafford lives out her life in the country side with her husband, William from 1533 until her death in 1543. She possibly has 2 or 3 more children, aside from Catherine and Henry Carey. They unnamed children are William, Edward and Anne. Mary dies July 19 1543 at the age of 35-44.

-1558 Princess/Lady Elizabeth Tudor, Anne only (living) child with Henry VIII becomes Queen of England, she is know as "Good Queen Bess" or "The Virgin Queen". She reigns for 45 years and brings England into the "Golden Age".

-In 1597, her grandson—Lord Hunsdon—claimed the title of “earl of Ormonde” on the grounds that he was the Boleyns’ legitimate heir. According to the strict rules of aristocratic inheritance, if Anne had been the elder sister, the title would have belonged to her daughter, Queen Elizabeth I—since a title descended through the eldest female line in the absence of a surviving male line. George Boleyn had no son and daughters.

So who do you think is eldest?

I think its Mary Boleyn-Carey-Strafford, because IF she did indeed have an affair with Francis I of France and subsequent promiscuity at the French court, for which she is generally thought to have been dismissed from the French court, shaming the Boleyn family. So she most likely is around 16-20 years of age.

Answer 1

There's no "think" about it. Mary was Anne's older sister.

Answer 2

I think from all my research and reading, that Mary was the older Boleyn girl

My friends and family call me CherBear - my name is Cherish. Just thought that was kinda funny!

Answer 3

I think that Mary was the older sister, even though there is still some dissent among historians.

One small piece of proof I question is here, in the Wiki article on the film "The Other Boleyn Girl", which we know is not accurate in the first place:

"... I [Philippa Gregory], and historian Alison Weir believe that she is the youngest. Anne was the first Boleyn girl sent to France, Mary followed. Anne is listed in a Boleyn will and Mary is not. Anne is named in a letter as Mistress Anne Boleyn and Mary as Mistress Boleyn which indicates Anne’s seniority."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_B...

I have an argument with that, as I believe that the eldest daughter would be addressed as "Mistress Boleyn", and the younger ones as "Mistress Mary" - think the Bennets in Jane Austen's "P & P", where Jane (eldest daughter) is "Miss Bennet" and Elizabeth is "Miss Elizabeth", etc.  (I'm pretty sure I'm right in this example.)

http://englishhistory.net/tudor/citizens...  This article maintains that Mary was the younger sister, but even for those days it seems rather unlikely that Mary was married off before Anne at the age of 12 - to a 28-year-old man.  I wonder how old she was when she received the title of w***e and mare in the French king's court as mistress to the king and others.  Surely she can't have been very young then, even if those reports are exaggerated?

Answer 4

The chronology above is very patient and detailed, well done. A lot of it concurs with the factual biographies I have read of Anne and her family.

The problem we have is that there is no absolute proof that either of the sisters was the elder. Thomas Boleyn, moaning about the high cost of living, wrote to a friend of his wife"every year she gave me a child"and even allowing for a couple of still births or infant deaths, that adds up to more than the three Boleyns who survived to adulthood.

There is no factual support that I know of for Mary to have had an affair with Francois I. They had no mutual child, which was likely to happen in the days of no reliable contraception - witness Mary's two children with Henry VIII. GOSSIP alone would have led to Mary being sent home - if some jealous mistress wanted it.And BTW children of eight or even younger were part of every noblewoman's train of companions..

From what I have read, George their brother seemed to be the youngest of the three, but not by more than two or so years. Anne's miscarriages may have related to her coming into menopause, when women have less opportunity to conceive or carry to term, which would indicate that she was in her 30s at least around 1535.Mary was still having child/ren around 1540, which to my mind would make her the younger sister.

My time scale would be Anne 1502-3, Mary 1504-5 and George 1506-7. But as I said, I have never seen any evidence of a definite date for any of these Boleyns.  

Answer 5

Mary Boleyn was the elder sister