Who thinks Tim Ambrose should have been dropped before the last test against South Africa.

Question

I think that Tim ambrose the Warkwickshire and current England wicket keeper is out of his depth at international test cricket and his batting is woeful so far and hes been pretty average with the gloves too.Surly its time to have a look at other wicket keepers and maybe give another chance to Chris Read, Geraint Jones, Paul Nixon, Matt Prior and Phil Mustard as I'm afraid Tim Ambrose is a weak link in the England line up at present.

Answer 1

England's wicketkeeping position has been under debate since the retirement of Alan Knott. We have had a succession of 'keepers, both short and long term, and England have never been able to settle on whether they want a batsman-wicketkeeper, or just a good wicketkeeper, regardless of his batting.

Ambrose, Prior, Read, Jones, Foster, Stewart, Russell, Rhodes, Hegg, Blakey, Richards, French, Downton.... these are all 'keepers who have represented England over the past 20 years.

Australia have had in the same time period: Dyer, Healy, Emery (for 1 match as cover), Gilchrist and Haddin. They clearly have a settled selection policy when it comes to choosing their 'keeper, and back that player when he is picked.

England firstly need to establish what they want from their wicketkeeper, and then stick to whatever they decide they want him to be. Too many times in the past they have picked a wicketkeeper on his wicketkeeping abilities, and then changed their minds and decided they want a batsman who can keep. It needs to be one or the other, they can't have both.

As for Ambrose, he shouldn't have been picked in the first place, as he is nowhere near ready for international cricket. However, not that he has been picked, they really need to stick with him, and develop his skills. He is not a bad player: he can bat, and his 'keeping is decent at county level. But he needs to be more consistent as a batsman, and his wicketkeeping needs a lot of work if he is to thrive and international level. I just wonder what Peter Moores is doing with him: he was his coach at Sussex, and now for England.

Answer 2

I'm not the greatest fan of Tim Ambrose (actually I think he's rubbish at international level), and like The Oracle said, he shouldn't have been picked in the first place as he's not up to international standards, his batting is often woeful and his glove-work has been poor. However, I'm not a fan of continually changing the team around, it's been done too often in the past and the results are hardly ever productive (it'd be like it was in the 80s/90s with people being 1 test wonders! and the team would be in total disarray). Once players have been selected they should be given the opportunity, and an extended run in the side, to not only settle in but to see if they can cement the role in the team they've been given. At the moment I don't think he's been given long enough, not long enough to have evolved as a player that's for sure, he needs time to grow into the role. A few weeks ago I was saying that he should go after the SA series but I'm not so sure, maybe he should be given until the winter series, he can bat and keep pretty well for his county after all. But I think he'll go as they've called up Prior for the ODIs.

As both The Oracle and Kinney have already stated, the role of W/K has long been a contested and contentious issue. The selectors want a Stewart, a Gilly or a Boucher but we just don't have that in our county system at the moment, what we do have are a few consistent performers (Mustard, Read, Foster, Prior etc etc), they are either excellent specialist keepers who can bat competently enough (or not at all) or great batsman who can't keep properly, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground anymore because they’re expected to score centuries every time they play and if they don’t they get cast aside quickly.

One of the problems is that the W/K is too much the focus nowadays, if the top order batsman and the middle order were more consistent then I’m sure people would barely notice the W/K and he could get on with his job of scoring a vital 30 or 40 runs without too much consternation if he didn’t get big 50s or 100s.

I don't think the W/K role will ever be solved in the short-term, people will always disagree over it. I'm sure if and when the next guy comes in we'll be having this same, exact discussion.

Answer 3

I feel sorry for Ambrose but like the last 3 or 4 wicket keepers who we have tried, they are good wicket keepers but not great keepers. There are not many in the Adam Gilchrist league and we just keep going round in a continuous circle. I personallyy feel though that Geraint Jones should be given another chance

Answer 4

Yep,we are not short of wicket keeper/batsmen.He looks like a boy in a mans game.Simon Jones in,but Strauss needs to go.We are not getting enough runs,Flintoff,cook,strauss,ambrose are all dodgy

Answer 5

Yeah, Bring back Alan Knott lol

Answer 6

yeah! i think paul nixon should deserve a place instead of him

Answer 7

i think prior was good. but england now a days shows very urgency to find a keeper.. they give too little chances to prove any keeper

Answer 8

Agree. He's not class.

I don't know what Foster did wrong to lose his place, other than to be injured for best part of a season.  

Answer 9

I think Matt Prior thinks he should have been dropped.

Answer 10

ow my god i totally agree the only runs he got were the first hundred he got on his dabue and the most annoying thing is he cant not bat he also cant catch . i think matt prior should be on the team why did he get dropped anyway he was awesome

Answer 11

The position of the wicket keeper is always a hot debate within the England team. As The Oracle has already mentioned, the selectors seem to constantly change their minds on what they would prefer: a stronger keeper or a stronger batsman.

It's a difficult role for any player to have. Few people take notice of wicketkeepers until something goes wrong. When they are keeping tidily you don't tend to acknowledge them, unless they take a spectacular catch. These days the keeper position has to be held by somebody who can perform like an extension of the top 6 as well as ballerinas behind the stumps.

As with all the wicketkeepers appointed since Alec Stewarts retirement, the focus is often on the new incumbents weaker suit anyway. Currently its Ambrose's lack of runs. However if our batsmen were making some decent scores, he wouldn't even be under this much pressure. He is being used as a scapegoat just like Prior after the Sri Lanka tour. Yes okay Ambrose isn't a top international player, however being a Warwickshire supporter myself, I for one know he can keep and bat well and thats why England chose him. He was seen as a compromise between Read and Prior.

Whoever comes in to the squad faces an uphill struggle because their performance in a world class arena is compared with their counterparts playing at county level! So expect the debate to run and run.

Once England get away from the obsession of trying to find our version of Gilchrist, the better. We will never have a keeper that great, nobody is really a stand-out candidate for the job. We need to pick one and stick with them, and I think that should be Ambrose for the Tests and Prior for the ODI's. And hey heres a crazy idea for the English fans, how about we actually support them for once instead of constantly picking on their faults?  :)

Answer 12

A wicket-keeper's job is wicket-keeping; not scoring runs for his team. He should be excellent behind the stumps. Batting if any is a bonus. Australia had the greatest luck with Adam Gilchrist who is a great wicket keeper and an explosive batsman. When such a player is not there, the second best situation is to have an outstanding keeper. Not an average keeper with average batsmanship.

I think that they ill-treated Geraint Jones whom I consider as the best English wicket keeper. Amongst players who have played atleast 20 test matches, he has a career average of 3.91 catches per test match (Chris Read has 3.60 catches per match). the other greats have the following figures.

RC Russell - 3.06; RW Taylor - 3.05; APE Knott - 2.83; AFA Lilley - 2.63; JT Murray - 2.62; Herbert Strudwick - 2.57; George Duckworth - 2.50; PR Downton - 2.50; JM Parks - 2.48; TG Evans - 2.41; Alec Stewart - 2.08; LEG Ames - 2.06; etc.

Steven John Rhodes took 4.45 catches per match but then he just got 11 matches. They blamed it on his poor batting ! A keeper has to keep wickets ?

Answer 13

no

Answer 14

he is a rubbish wicket keeper too.