Who won this argument?

Question

I had an argument with a friend, I said that racism towards african americans stemmed from slavery, and the reason racism is so strong toward african americans as opposed to other peoples is because of slavery and the way slaves were treated. My friend says that I am basically saying its ok to be racist because I gave them a reason for it. He says I will turn into a racist pig if i continue to believe that, but I retorted that if you don't understand where racism comes from then you can't combat it. He said you can't ever understand it without experiencing it yourself.

who do you think won this argument?

Answer 1

I think both points are valid.

But the real issue was basic human rights.

Black people were not given these rights, which resulted in their treatment as a sub human class.

They were treated and viewed as animals and personal property.

But they were human either you must agree that every human has basic human rights or the reasoning behind human rights falls apart.

Clearly black people are human beings.

Clearly this means they should be every bit as entitled to human rights as people that are not black but are still human.

To me the issue of racism stems from the idea that not all humans are entitled to the same basic rights, that is what makes it irrational.

Answer 2

I feel like I am treading on eggshells here as, being a Brit and not an American of any colour, I don’t understand in any sense and to any depth the American experience of slavery. So I will treat this as a problem about the nature of understanding.

It is important to realise that there are two sorts of understanding, which get confused because there is only one word for them in English. There is understanding *about* something (French ‘savoir’, German ‘Wissen’), which is largely an exercise of intellect, and there is knowledge *of* something by personal acquaintance with it (French ‘connaitre’, German ‘Kennen’) which unless you have direct experience yourself is really an exercise of imagination. The English words ‘understanding’ and ‘knowledge’ cover both types.

You and your friend could not have had this argument in French or German, because it would have been clear you were talking about different things. You say you understand (‘savoir’,’Wissen’) racism, your friend says he understands (‘connaitre’,’Kennen’) racism – and the two positions are not in conflict. There’s no argument. Nobody won.

Answer 3

Racism stems from the human desire to group people into 'us' and 'them.'

It takes a lot of forms (sexism, xenophobia, etc.), but in the United States racism has traditionally been the dominant form because of slavery. I don't know what your friend is talking about. Of course we can understand racism enough to combat it without having to experience it, just like a doctor can combat HIV without having to acquire it. Having a good historical understanding for why racism exists is essential to finding a way to rid ourselves of it.

As far as I'm concerned, you won.

Answer 4

Well no one. You both remained as you were, having different opinions. Historically explaining the root of racism, which slavery was actually a result of at the time, is not same as providing whites with any excuses for modern racism which actually seems to stem from an old "I hate'em cause they different" and relatively recent "I hate'em cause I hurt'em".

Answer 5

You did.  He gave it up at the end.  Saying that he "experienced" racism.  Everyone has.  Whites especially (mostly behind our backs).  But hey, who cares if they don't like us.  And he did show a sign of racism in the end.  Saying "your people" haven't experienced racism.

Answer 6

Most definitely the latter...."you can't understand it without experiencing it yourself".

Answer 7

Neither of you won this one because your arguments on both sides are flawed. Racism doesn't stem from slavery either as master or slave. Slavery did not originate in this country, by the way. It still exists in many African countries. One tribe goes to war against another and the losers are captured as slaves of the winners. If you believe that racism against Black people is worse than against other ethnic groups, open your eyes and look around a little more. Yes, I said Black people rather than the politically correct "African-American" because to use that term is itself divisive and incorrect. Egypt is on the African continent, and therefore all Egyptians are, in fact, Africans too. There are many native Africans who are not Black. Read the two articles listed below in sources and then make your same statement that slavery and racism are related.

Answer 8

Neither.  Both fall short of being convincing to say the lease.

Answer 9

I don't believe either of the arguments BUT if I had to choose, I would say you are right.

Answer 10

you cant win if your both mad still, fight it out

Answer 11

i think he had good points and so did you. but i don't think you will become racist by finding the source.

i think in your search for the source, you missed an important point, the racism, granted began from slavery in terms of attitude towards black people, but also, because of slavery, a large portion of black people in the US are poor. the main reason racism persists, is because the united states continues to have a high division of wealth, and most blacks are poor. this creates a large difference of culture highlighted with color. it's basically a poor/rich thing. but it looks like a race thing because the rich/poor division is also pretty much a black white thing (there's other races too obviously and mexican is growing in improtance but that's another story). if you want to fix racism you need to start with fixing poverty. voting for obama is a step in that direction.