Why? Is sake a beer?

Question

Beer is also made from rice. American Budweiser, Coors, ETC...

Answer 1

All right, everyone have a beer/wine/sake and cool down.

Actually, many good points are being made here. On the other-hand some way-out statements have been made as well.

In no way is Sake a wine! Cider and mead are far more wine-like than is Sake.

I have always considered sake a beer. Mainly because of the grain issue but also it is processed closer to how a beer is than other alcohol beverages are. If it were distilled,… well that seems like an interesting idea, I may try that.

I suppose it comes down to all things considered. {Ingredients, processing, treatments, aging}

From the ingredient perspective it is a beer.  The fermentables being derived from a grain. I do agree to the above that hops are just a flavor source such as juniper berries in Gin and other herbs in other drinks such as Ouzo or Absinthe.

Considering the processing (starch conversion) this lends to both beer “the mash” and the idea of its own special category mentioned above-Sake. This is similar to the beer-to-whiskey idea or wine-to-brandy. Both Whiskey and Brandy were other alcoholic beverages before being converted into something more unique through distillation. Yet Sake is not distilled. But naturally occurring organisms will degrade starch in barley and rice into sugars. Each seem to have closely related processing aging, filtering-or not, and packaging methods as well.

The fact is barley or rice would both ferment in nature under the proper conditions that promote it. Naturally occurring yeast, molds, and bacteria will ferment the sugars (in some cases starches by breakdown on the cell surface) of these grains. The same over time will degrade the starches to those fermentable sugars. With rice it would take a while and a unique set of conditions but it will indeed occur naturally. So it seems the natural products are a beer-like beverage. It is only through human intervention and ingenuity that they become or became distinct products.

The ingredients in both can naturally be converted to sugars and fermented. Man can expedite this process by adding enzymes or molds to either. They fermented in controlled environments and are not distilled.

I think it is valid if one chooses to think of Sake as a unique alcoholic beverage on its own basis. I like the idea of a special category of beer for Sake it is a fitting one.

Answer 2

it's not

Answer 3

Sake is rice wine.

Beer made from rice??? Are you insane? Beer is made from malted barley and occasionally includes wheat in it as well (yuck).

Answer 4

No. Beer is usually brewed with barley, wheat, or corn. It ferments the starch from cereals. Sake is a spirit brewed from rice.

Answer 5

Sake is not a beer, it is actually a wine made from the fermantation of rice.  It is served hot and cold...I enjoy it hot

Answer 6

its a fermented grain?

sake fermentation is simmilar to beer.

beer is any grain that is fermented basically.

Answer 7

Depends...

In Japan Sake means alcohol. Any kind. In the US Sake is a distilled rice wine that the Japanese call Nihonshu. It is closer to a vodka than it is a beer...in that it is a fermented grain that has been distilled for purity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sake

EDIT:

Sorry, I went back and reread teh sake article...it had been awhile and I got a little mixed up. Some sakes have distilled liquors added. My mistake.

But it still isn't beer. The starches in beer become sugar during the boil process, in sake they become sugars do to mold.

Answer 8

YES

Any fermented beverage derived from a grain is a beer.

Wine is a fermented beverage derived from fruit.

Answer 9

Sake is sake, it is not beer or wine.

The process involved in making sake is unique to sake.

If you really wanted to compare it to beer and wine it is more like beer than wine.  The difference between beer and sake is that in beer the starches are converted to fermentable sugars by mashing (heat plus natural enzymes) while in sake the starches in rice are converted to fermentable sugars by way of an enzyme rich mold (koji).

Before somebody hops on the semantics bus I'm also well aware that sake typically refers to Nihonshu here in the states.

EDIT:

The "if it comes from grain it must be beer" is on the right trail but it misses the mark.  Beer is derived from cereal grains but a key determining factor is that in beer the starches are converted to fermentable sugars by way of its own enzymes via a process called mashing.   In sake the enzymes used to convert the starches to sugar are directly added to the product and don't come from the rice itself vs. a rice beer which would use a heated mash to activate its own latent enzymes hence the difference.  Sake uses third party enzymes, rice beers (which do exist) use naturally occurring enzymes.

It blows my mind the number of people who refuse to listen to reason.  Live on in ignorance peons.

EDIT:

Saying something like the source and application of enzymes in beer vs. sake doesn't matter is like saying that wine is the same thing as beer because they both contain yeast and sugar water.

Answer 10

No sake is just a rice wine, Whiskey is distilled grain, And you got a badge work with me Man....

Answer 11

Yes Sake is a beer made from rice. It is a specail catagory of beer a style orginating in China and populartized by Japanese Sake style.

The method of grain converision from starch to fermentable sugars is not the correct definition of beer. The only concern is the fermentable sugars are derieved from grain and thus it is an alcoholic beverage called beer. Whiskey begins as a beer and is distilled. Sake is not distilled and it is madse from grain it is a rice beer.

[From a recent answer I gave about rice in beer]

The definition of REAL beer is an "fermented alcoholic beverage processed from grain." That grain used to produce a beer may be barley, wheat, rice, corn, millet, triticale, oats, and others. To denounce one is to denounce all. With no grain we have no beer. Some people just do not think about this when they talk ill of rice used in beer.

Also consider any beer flavor is a matter of preference. Beer sure would be boring if we had beers brewed from only barley grain and no other.

*Rice gives fermentable sugars while producing a light flavor profile.

*Rice was used and increased in the grist bill (brewer’s term for grain bill or ingredients) during times of war. Barley availability was decreased and rice was easily obtainable.

*Women during WW II were a large part of the beer drinking community and demanded a lighter beer flavor.

*People have demanded lighter beers over the years and the brewers have responded.

*Rice is a (usually) cheaper grain than many others and so is beneficial to the profit line of business.

Rice beers including Sake, yes sake is actually a beer as it is made from grain, are not inherently bad or evil.

Some people have a limited understanding of both the art and science of brewing and so they denounce the use of rice. Some think that the German laws included a control on the ingredients used in brewing to those of Barley, Hops, and Water. This is just an urban legend. Germany lead by the Bavarians used a decree during the time of great disease in Europe to set laws for food purity. When the end of the disease plague came the laws were used only as guidelines and thus became a tradition. This also forced other German brewers to follow or be ridiculed for risking public health. This gave the Bavarian brewers a marketing and business advantage. Later the “guidelines” were amended to include yeast and wheat. Today, many German brewers are fighting those guidelines both with and against public opinion and industry traditionalists.

In an ironic twist and a sign that those that denounce rice in beers, do not fully understand beer and brewing, drink beers brewed with many added adjuncts. Most people do not know that the beers the consume contain adjunct grains and ingredients for example, corn (Miller, Rodenbach in Belgium), sugars (both fermentable and unfermentable) in many craft brewers, fruit and other exotic ingredients are used as well.

Another consideration is the fact that many who consider beer in the course of history dating from Mesopotamia do not know or choose to ignore the fact that these beers contained ingredients other than the often stated standard 4 of barley, hops, yeast and water. And so beers’ ingredients have evolved over time from fruit and spices to grain and herbs.

Most if not all-large brewers do use adjunct grains in their beers. These beers are known for a light satiating flavor profile. They are perfectly good beers and should be enjoyed. Do not take too serious amateur beer drinkers with over inflated egos about their seriously lacking beer knowledge that denounce them.

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In brewing a beer such a Bud Light rice is included in the grist bill in determing the final desired parameters of the beer. The rice is cooked until it gelatinizes and enzymes are added. The enzymes, same ones in the barley, break down starches in to fermentable and non-fermentable sugars. Traditionally, this was done by mixing a portion of the barley-mash to the rice. But today many brewers can add purified commercially produced enzymes to the rice.

After the starches of the rice have been converted it is added to the main barley mash and the brewing is continued.

Answer 12

Sake is also referred to in English as "Japanese rice wine," but the characterisation implied is not accurate.

Wine is made from the single fermentation of plant juices (other than sparkling wine, which can be a double fermentation to create the carbonation).

Sake is produced by multiple fermentation of rice, which is similar to the way beer is produced.

So I would say it's a beer though it looks like wine.

Answer 13

No, it's not beer.

It contains no hops and no grains besides rice.  It does not malt the grain. It is not stored for secondary fermentation so as to retain carbonation and carbonation is never added to it.  It doesn't skunk if served at room temperature, and is usually clarified before bottling.

To put it another way, sake uses a starter mold to convert the starch into sugar for fermentation, in addition to the yeast that ferments the sugar into alcohol.  No other alcoholic beverage known to science uses this method.

Additionally, sake is normally fermented to a similar percentage of alcohol (10-20) as wine, and is typically served in smaller portions, similar to wine.  Sometimes it does contained a small portion of distilled alcohol to enhance the aroma.

In other words, it's not made like beer, it's not bottled like beer, and it's not consumed like beer.  If you still think it's beer, then you have to concede that bread, cake, spaghetti, and my grand-dad's '57 DeSoto are also beers.

Answer 14

Whatsoever the theory is sake is Japanese rice wine.nobody called them a beer.It is like the process of malt whisky .They called them whisky not a beer.

Answer 15

More like wine.

"Japanese rice wine."

Answer 16

No, sake is wine made from rice.

Answer 17

Sake is in fact an unflavored-beer.

No herbs or spices etc.

h**l thumbs up or down I know beer and I know sake is a beer. Too many beer want-to-be experts here.

I would say Alesmith is the most ignorant one here. "Live on in ignorance peon!"

NO. The key is not the enzymes it is the grain. The dude above explained it well but you still can not understand-thick head.

Mayor I am surprised you think like that about beer. You usually answer with a nice knowledge base on topics about beer. But starches in beer brewing are converted in the mash and not the boil. The grain is key to beer and not proteins.

Ying:

Hops are for flavor-bitterness-aroma thus it is an herb and is no concern for definition purposes. Carbonation is a new parameter to the brewing process. It is only a sensral effect due to capping a container. In no way can a reasonable correlation be made to beer and bread in the final product.

If your criteria (as you and others have stated) define a product then whiskey is indeed beer. We  may as well call it fermented-beer.

FYI: Skunked beer is not caused by heat but by uv light.

If sake is wine then you must concede that anything you decide to be so is. In no way is sake made like a Zinfandel. Restated your asnwer by comparing Sake production to that of wine. There is your Desoto comapison.