Why are the adoptive parents the enemy here?

Question

Everyone makes a big point to say they are not anti-adoption. However, why are we adopted parents considered the enemy in this category? Should the anger and hatred really be directed towards us? I recently posted a question that was intended to help adoptive families & adoptees find out more about newborn screening to test for genetic disorders - which could save a life - and I still received insulting responses. I'm curious for those who are so vindictive, what point are you truly trying to make? Doesn't it hurt your cause to be so disrespectful?

This question is not to "bait" anyone either - it's simply to try to understand what it is you want us to hear because I'm apparently missing it through all of the hostility.

Answer 1

Thankfully Adoption has always been a part of my life.  My great Aunt adopted two children, my Aunt adopted 7 older foster children and myself adopting two children, so it has been such a positive experience.  In my community I am very involved with the adoption community.  Many of my friends are adoptees, my cousins are adoptees and i have other adoptive parents to talk with adoption issues.  Most of the adoptive conversations are wonderful positive and quite informative.  

I was quite shocked to hear such negativity here.  It is obvious that there are some people on this website that are opposed to adoption.  Thank God, I have a strong foundation to know that this is not the norm.  Some people must have had a negative experience with adoption and that breaks my heart.  I pray they find the healing and support they need.  I know people can say and do stupid and hurtful things without meaning to we are all human.  

I do and will always defend our birthparents!  I do and will always correct anyone who (intentionally or unintentionally) asks adoptive questions that belittle or are hurtful. I try to educate and not blame.  I also try to have a open heart knowing that i still have a lot to learn myself.

thanks for asking this question.  I was wondering about all the hostility myself.  I am beginning to think this website at least the adoption part is not for me.  I wanted to expand my horizons in regards to adoption in a postive way, not to defend my family.

Answer 2

BPD Wife---

I was on my profile shutting it down and saw here you asked this question. I just want you to know...

YOU ARE NOT THE ENEMY!!!

I have always respected you and your answers. I just wanted to say this before I leave for good.

Thank you for opening your heart and home to your son.(this also goes for your husband)

peace,

healing

Answer 3

i am a believer that people are individuals.  when i see people lumped together based on a similar agenda, life event, race, gender, et al., i get antsy.

i wouldn't say that aparents are the enemy.  as a matter of fact, there are several aparents (including you) who i've dialoged with off-line, without any mud-slinging.

the issue, i venture to posit, is that the "aparents-as-enemy" belief is that many (not all) aparents do not look at the not-so-good parts of the adoption system.  also, many (not all) are not educated on bmother coercion and adoptee loss. why? because these are not their experiences. and unfortunately, many lack empathy for b/n/f-moms and adoptees who speak out.

example:

i do not shop at walmart or sam's club. not because i don't think they have good quality merchandise; yet i don't like the unfair labor practices associated with these companies' "low prices."

now, i don't work at walmart or sam's club, and i'll never be a child laborer. yet, i am *empathetic* to the conditions that these children and workers go through; hence i do not spend my money there.

--------------------------------------

the word of the day is "empathy."  and many aparents (such as you, cowboy-fan, and several others on other blogs) at least try to see the other side and empathize.  

unfortunately, those who lack empathy are usually those prospective and current aparents who:

-agree to open adoption agreement and then close them for bogus reasons.

-complain that there are too many abortions; hence, they can't have a baby.

-call a f/n/b-mom a "scammer" because she decided not to place her child, instead to parent.

-want "made to order" babies, yet complain when the wait is too long.

-mock their adoptive child's origin (eg. "made in china").

-openly discuss how "cheap and easy" it is to adopt  black or bi-racial children because they are the "bottom of society." -note: if i read that again, i will report the person who writes it!

-co-opt pregnancy/childbirth/post-partum experiences into the adoption lexicon.

-opening demean b/f/n-mothers (eg. she was a crack-head w***e who was stupid and got herself pregnant.)

-marginalize physical pregnancy and childbirth.

-blog extensively about how they "hate" pregnant women.

-call pregnant women "birth mothers" before relinquishment.

-using the "wrong tummy" argument.

-not share birth records with adult adoptees.

-call adoptive children 'ungrateful' if they become curious about finding their first-families.

these are the paps and aps many loathe. and it's not to suggest that all aparents fit these categories.

Answer 4

Personally I think they think that everyone is unaware of some of the problems involved in adoption. The problem is they attack instead of trying to get their point across in a reasonable manor. And I think they sometimes think that because they are unhappy with their experience  (meaning with the system and or their parents) that everyone is. Which is not the case. The thing is they say they support adoption but not the way it is currently run, but yet they seem to slam anyone currently seeking to adopt and those who are not bitter about their adoption. They need to learn that just because others do not share their beliefs they are not wrong. I know I will listen to someone who is reasonable before I will to someone who is nasty and and negative in their responses. I think instead of attacking they should be informative in how to get involved to make the reforms so that it is a better situation for all parties involved. This is just my opinion. Knowledge and facts not hatred is what should be used to try to make the reforms needed.

Answer 5

I really think people are ignorant [not stupid, just really don't know] about adoption.  I think adoptive parents are angels--particularly, my own.  They didn't get the cute little newborn fresh from the hospital.  No, they got the older, the abused, the abandoned, angry children and tried to provide a "normal" life for children whose lives were far from normal.

I hear a lot of anger in Y!/A from the adoptees.  I understand, to a degree, there isn't a much worse feeling than the feeling of rejection, like you weren't good enough.  I wish they would understand that it wasn't that they weren't good enough, or even that their biological parent wasn't "good enough".  I still believe that it takes more courage to give your child up than it does to keep and raise a child you're incapable of raising for whatever reason, whether its finances, mental issues, too young, too old, etc...  I see so many children that are with parents that should have had no right whatsoever to have them.  While there are those out there that aren't able to have children and would provide a safe, warm, loving environment for children.

Answer 6

That's an odd assumption...  Why do you think that?  I don't think of adoptive parents the enemy.  As I've said (and apparently have to keep saying) I love my adoptive parents.  They aren't my enemy.

If you think that you are the enemy because of hatred and anger directed toward you, then I think adoptees must be the enemy, since I've had a lot more anger directed against me than I've seen against you.  But let's not turn this into a contest.  

The point is, there's been a lot of anger here.  I see adoptees attacked on this board every day.  Sometimes by adoptive parents.  Sometimes by birth parents.  And sometimes by other adoptees.  

I, myself, don't think attacks are appropriate.  But I think attacks against fungible groups are even more inappropriate.

I see a lot of people saying they wish we could all get along and just respect each other's points of view.  But when adoptees speak up, they get slammed.  I think, perhaps, you feel hurt (and maybe rightly so), but I don't think that the majority here treat adoptive parents as the enemy.

P.S.  Healing, I'm sorry to see you go...  Maybe you might visit us at http://www.adultadoptees.org/forum/index... ?

Edited to Add:  Actually BPD Wife, the more I think about it, the more I realize you are right.  Adoptive parents are treated like the enemy here.  EVERY TIME an adoptee says something pointing out a problem with adoption, they are told that they just had a bad experience and not everyone is the same.  EVERY TIME.  Since adoptive parents are largely responsible for the experiences of their adoptees (I don't know if I believe this, but since those who chalk it up to bad experience cannot blame the relinquishment itself, because then all adoption would be bad...)  As I was saying, since adoptive parents are responsible for the bad experiences, ADOPTIVE PARENTS ARE BLAMED EVERY TIME AN ADOPTEE SPEAKS UP ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WITH ADOPTION.  That's always been very upsetting to me.  I feel very protective of my adoptive parents.  Maybe, if we want to stop blaming adoptive parents, people could recognize that there is a problem with adoption itself?  Just a thought.

Answer 7

NO ONE should be the enemy in this forum.  Most on here who want to see reform are able to communicate their feelings in a diplomatic, educational manner but there are a select few who can't seem to set their own emotions aside to give an answer that would be beneficial or make anyone understand their point.  Don't they understand that being rude, disrespectful, or demeaning to those they want to "change" is just counterproductive?  I asked a question yesterday about making true changes in the adoption system and got many responses that said in addition to the gov't things they're involved in, they also see it as a change that has to happen from the bottom up.  That makes sense to me.  So, if they are really on here to EDUCATE, shed light, etc....then does it make sense to alienate, push away, and otherwise insult the very people who you're wanting to educate?  Would a teacher have much of a chance if she walked into a classroom and proclaimed "you're all a bunch of idiots and everything you do is wrong"?  No.....her students would immediately hate her and wouldn't listen to a word she has to say because she STARTED from a position of being angry & hostile.

Answer 8

APs are not the enemy.

That said, I'm not into soothing their feelings either.

I can honesty say my feelings have never been hurt here.  Do you know why?

Because I survived through losing my entire family at birth.  I had to make my way in a family that I had nothing in common with.  I had to endure a LIFETIME of questions, comments, and harassment from the land of the non-adopted about growing up adopted in America.

Your son will have to do the same.  He needs a mother who doesn't get hurt feelings all the time.  He needs you to ACT as strong as he needs to BE.

Answer 9

Dear BPD Wife,

I've been answering questions here for several months now and I can't help but notice that you are very sensitive to the answers here.  I have seen you post many times asking why there is what you see as baiting and hostility.  You seem to be taking it very personally.  I'm wondering why that is.  Do you really think that everything is directed towards you personally?  

I sometimes wonder when I read how hurt you sound about answers, if you take it so personally because it attacks your own view of yourself.   You identify yourself as a policeman's wife and a mother to a sick child on your profile...are you expecting for everyone to always send you praise and view you as a saint for these things?  Is that why it upsets you so much if they don't?

I don't know you, but I'm just saying, there is something about the way you seem to need to view yourself as a really, really, really, good person, and that it seems like you can't handle it if someone doesn't, that makes it seem that you have a bit of insecurity going on there.  

People aren't always nice and it's not always about you.  And that's not just here in Y!A Adoption, but in life in general.  My advice...toughen up a little bit.  I did after realizing that there is something to be gained even if people here are disagreeing with each other.  My voice can still make a difference, and so can yours.

Answer 10

I applaud you for trying to understand people's motives better on this forum and definitely don't see this question as baiting.  I too would like to know the answer to this.  I look forward to the responses.

Answer 11

Take care healing, we'll miss you and your voice here.

And since adoptive parents hold the most power and control in adoption, then that's why the do receive most of the heat.  Adoptees certainly don't have a choice in our own adoptions, many times n-mothers don't have much choice either.

So yes, adoptive parents, while not the "enemy", are still held to a higher standard.

And it's especially annoying when some adopters take on the Superiority attitude...talking down to people and scolding as if we are children really doesn't do you much good, either.

Answer 12

Maybe because the ultimate goal for some people is the total abolishment of adoption and the only real people standing in the way of the that are adoptive parents. Afterall, without them there would be no adoption agencies (no $).

Answer 13

They aren't.  Not universally, anyway.

I would love to have some genetic screening BTW, as I'm really tired of all the extra mammograms and stuff.

Answer 14

Once again, I believe you are being oversensitive, and over dramatic.

Answer 15

I fully admit I am tough on adoptive parents and potential adoptive parents.

Because of the exploitation of mothers like me both domestically and internationally, I always wonder about people who can take children away without giving any thought or effort into resolving why the children were relinquished or abandoned.

Because of the denial of so long of adoptee feelings of loss, or the belief in the ideal of perfect parenting replacing that loss, I am suspicious of parental intent.

And most importantly, I really feel adoption isn't the best idea unfortunately adoptive parents and potential adoptive parents take that opinion personally regardless to their true intentions of why they chose the adoption path.

So yes, I'm pretty tough on adoptive parents and potential adoptive parents.  I have very little willingness to give someone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their intentions when it comes to adoptive parenting.  It is one situation where I wait for someone to prove good intentions and not say the hurtful things to mothers like me, or people who have been adopted.  Until adoption changes to be less exploitive, and less oppressive to those being adopted, I will continue to be hard on those who choose to willingly step into adoption.

Edit to add in reply to the additional details:

Welcome to the club of getting defensive.  Would you like your official membership card?  Both birthmothers and adoptees have long had to participate in the experience of getting defensive about our experiences in adoption.  I can't even count how many times in the last eleven years where I have been asked to explain my experience relinquishing my child, show details of how I feel I was coerced, questioned about personal responsibility when it comes to choosing adoption, questioned about how I feel about the loss and whether it affects other parts of my life, let alone being questioned whether I should ever be allowed to have children again because of placing my firstborn for adoption.  That isn't even addressing the usual crack w***e comments.

I'm sure you are well aware now of what adoptees get put through with regards to their own stories.

Here's the thing though, sometimes it gets really tiring putting my story out there of what I went through in hopes of educating others.

Answer 16

your definatly not the enemy, dont listen to other people, you have a big heart if you can adopt a child.

Children with out birth parents need good homes too!!!

Answer 17

This problem is a good reason to further divide categories under the Adoption heading - like "Adoptive Parenting," "Considering Adoption," "Adoptees," "Relinquishing a Child," "International Adoption," "Foster-to-Adopt," etc., etc. etc.

"Adoption," like "Politics & Government," should not be confined to one category.

To address your specific question:

First, there are Adoptive Parents, and there are Prospective Adoptive Parents - two different categories.

Under the category of Adoptive Parents, there are those who have adopted a child they have fostered, those who adopt from the foster system without fostering, those who adopt older foster kids, those who adopt within their family, those who adopt older kids internationally, those who adopt younger children & infants internationally, those who adopt infants out of the foster system, those who adopt infants "fresh" from their mothers, etc.  VASTLY different forms of adoption.

Adoptive Parents are at least as different as the sources they choose for obtaining a child, as different as their motivations to adopt, as different as their experiences with adoption (no matter how limited or extensive), as different as their ability to empathize or choose to willfully ignore.

SOME adoptive parents, from ANY informed perspective, are indeed the enemy.  Adoptive parents like you would see them as such.  Many adoptees can spot them a mile away.  There is dangerous propaganda out there, spread by the adoption industry, that does every single party to adoption a disservice.  

I can tell you from over a decade of experience that it can be a challenge not to respond to parroted propaganda in anger.  Some people are at a stage of healing that can only produce abject horror at a naive statement or assumption.  Others find an uneasy tolerance and try to enlighten.  

In any case, I think that most people who have educated themselves about the realities of adoption or who have awakened to the repressed realities of their own experience are, at times, going to throw people, though perhaps undeserving, into one or more of the above-mentioned categories.

Yahoo Answers is not an educational venue where well thought out responses are important.  It's an impulse venue, and you will get impulsive answers especially when only ONE category - "Adoption" - is assumed by Yahoo Answers creators  to describe us all.

Answer 18

You are definitely not the enemy, BPD.  You are concerned not only about the usual parental concerns, but also about the adoption issues for your child.

I actually didn't look at the question, only because I figured that it was for parents only, and I am not a parent.  So, I just went and looked at it now.  I don't think that the people who had disgruntled answers were mad at you or PAP's in general on this.  I don't think they were mad at adoption in and of itself on this one, either. I think they were mad at the closed records system.  

You have an open adoption and are very realistic and caring about your child's adoption issues.  

Actually, after reading the question, I would think that this kind of testing would be beneficial to people even if adoption wasn't part of the mix.  You never know when illnesses can show up.  It could be something from several generations back or even something that has never shown before.

Answer 19

Adoptive parents are not the enemy -  I 'm actually quite fond of my adoptive parents!

There are a few ignorant and hurtful adoptive parents who could use an education but I don't know that you are one of those

Please don't take things the wrong way

Answer 20

Actually, I have nothing against adoptive parents in general.  I have the upmost respect for the couple that adopted Baby Z.  You, like them, want to understand your child more to help them on their journey thru life as an adoptee.  You're a kind and wonderful person and I honestly do wish there were more adoptive parents like you and them.

What gets most of us natural moms and adoptees in a tizzy is the ones that feel that natural moms aren't worthy of being mothers, or that adoptees should just be "grateful they weren't aborted".  The potential adoptive parents that want that blond haired, blue eyed infant and are willing to sink to low levels to obtain said infant.  Granted, the above mentioned are relatively few, but enough of them exist to make all AP's and PAP's seem that awful.  Lots of people fail to understand all of our circumstances and are quick to make snap judgements.  Rest easy in knowing that many of us have lots of respect for you and the other adoptive parents who try to work in helping their child, try to work in understanding their natural moms (depending on the circumstances), and try to work in helping reform an industry that has gotten completely out of control.

Answer 21

adoptive parents are not the enemy. But I too have noticed there is alot of anti- adoption ppl on here. Adoption is a beautiful thin and can be for all involved. I believe some ppl either have no real knowlegde of adoption or have had a bad experience.  There are truly good adoptions and adoptees who grow up happy, healthy and well adjusted. Most adoptess are not depressed or crying the boo-hoos.

Answer 22

I totally agree.  I got two thumbs down on answering a question about adopting and having bad credit.  People need to understand that not all of us are "out to get people", we are all part of a bigger picture and if some of us could learn to get along and respect others opinions...well, I guess we would live in a third world, cause there is no way to get through to such rude people.

Answer 23

I'm an adoptive parent, and I haven't felt like the enemy here at all. In fact I've apparently been lumped in with those that are termed "anti-adoption n***s" and been blocked by the same person. All for standing up for the rights and voices of adoptees -- like, um, my daughter? Okay, more than that, I consciously try to stand in solidarity with adult adoptees. But I still seriously do not get how anyone can think that is wrong.

But it doesn't take that to not be seen as an "enemy." Witness all the answers you have gotten. Even disagreement does not make most on Y!A think of you as an enemy (though it may generate thumbs down, but if someone can't take that, they need serious conseling). The only thing that I have seen make someone an enemy is insulting and ridiculing. And you don't do that, so you are not "the enemy." So while many on this section of Y!A have strong opinions, I think it is the rare person who has enemies.

I'm sorry people have sent you insulting emails. That is pointless and sad. Use the delete button liberally and move on.

Answer 24

I think it's the difference between good adoptive parents and lousy adotive parents. Some her have had not just bad experiences but actually bad adoptive parents. I think you all get grouped together in general by the people who did not have such good parents (experiences). If they were to admit that some are good and some are bad it would force them to tone down their anger and they aren't ready for that yet.  Some say that every adoption is a lousey experience and most of us agree no matter which angle we come from. We all see the hurt that it causes. It is lousey. This creates the myth that all adoptive parents cause the bad experiences and are in general bad adoptive parents. There is no satisfaction blaming a system that doesn't work to them. They can't sink their teeth into it.They need blood. They need  to have a breathing person they can take it out on. I think they chose you (adoptive parents) because you listen when maybe others in their lives don't.

Answer 25

To be honest, your other question didn't really read like a question, it read as an informative post, which is NOT what this forum is for.  This community is for asking questions that you need answers to.  I'm sorry if someone hurt your feelings as I have nothing but respect for adoptive parents and I hope to be one myself one day!  But please, ask questions here, answer questions here, if you have a story to tell then find another place.

Answer 26

I don't have a problem with adoptive parents.  I have many friends who are adoptive parents and mine are ok for the most part.  The people my age who have adopted are people I care for and respect...and they respect me too.  I can honestly say I like many adoptive parents.  I have no problem with most people who adopt.

I do however have a problem with bossy people and hypocrites.  People who tell people off for "chastising" them when they say something completely out of line but then go around chastising anyone they disagree with.  Sound like anyone you know?

I am actually confused as to why some adoptive parents here seem to think it's ok to chastise and call out adult adoptees.  It's almost as if they are trying to assume some kind of sick parental role with adoptees here.

Well, I already have a mom, two of them in fact and I don't really need anymore.

Answer 27

Okay.

I am anti-adoption. I haven't denied that ever. That doesn't mean  I'm against adoptive parents at all. Do I think that adoptive parents need more education on separation issues before going into an adoption, YES. Do i think that adoptive parents are a major fueling of the adoption industry, YES. Does this mean I don't like them? NO. I think adoptive parents are often scandaled by the same industry that scandals expecting and surrendering mothers, as well as the same industry that absolutely violates and takes advantage of adopted children and adults.

This doesn't mean however that I have to agree with everything you say, and I may give you a thumbs down from time to time because I disagree with  you. It doesn't mean that "adoptive parents are the enemy" and it doesn't mean that you are an enemy it means I disagree with you. For example, last night, I got a bit flustered at the comment you made in another thread about it taking a perfect world etc etc. and I posted the question about it taking a perfect world for adoption to be happening less. Thats a very dismissive comment and its one I come across often by...ADOPTIVE PARENTS and it frustrates me.

Onto anger and hatred being directed towards "adoptive parents" lets address what I've been called since posting on this forum, anit-adoption hater, n**i( more times than I can count), anti-adoption bigot, adoptive parents hater and the list goes on and on really. I get thumbed down on EVERY SINGLE POST i make, but you know what,  you don't see me complaining about it, i don't take offense to it, noodles can call me what she wants, in the end i think it makes HER look worse than me. In the end, i know my truth, i know what i'm saying is accurate, i can quote sources, links, statistics and facts in my sleep with my eyes closed I know what I'm saying in accurate and on target.

In all honesty, not much "reform" is going to take place by posting on yahoo answers. We're not speaking to the masses when we post here. I post here to help searching adoptees and mothers find one another, and to advocate for adoptees and our rights to give them strength to come out of the woods and unite with us( which they are doing.)

Adoptees are continually dismissed on this forum and in everyday life, and everyday society as well as mothers who have surrendered. Its clear as day, the blanket statments of gratitude we should have for not being aborted, the gratitude we should have for being adopted, the gratitude we should have for being treated as second class citizens, dismiss after dismiss after dismiss, welcome to MY life as an adoptee.

Absolutely nothing you could say could really change my heart on adoption, nor could it change my goals for reform. I do PLENTY of adoptee rights reform work offline and other places online, i dont see much hope for reform coming from yahoo answers. My reform goals are focused in other areas.

Answer 28

BPD…I agree insults are uncalled for.  When emotions run high, they are bound to happen.  I know that I have unintentionally insulted some people just as others have expressed that you have insulted them without meaning to.  It is going to happen.

It is fair to call out an insult directly when you see it and hopefully the person will explain their intent.  Everyone on this board it trying to help solve the riddle of adoption.  Sometimes things break down, but eventually we all enter into a constructive phase again.  These cycles will occur (we are nearing a low now).

As for your specific question…the problem is that some adoptive parents are easy targets.  They often have not given as much thought to the issues as adoptees and thus inevitably spout well-intentioned but misplaced ideas.  Again, one can try to restrain answers, but when emotions run high an insult is bound to occur.

Best to just call it out and move on.

Answer 29

First, you are not the enemy.. get that out of your head. It takes strong people to adopt or to relinquish a child. If they  cant handle their situation and take it out on people who mean well they are just vindictive and spreading their negativity.  You are taking an extra step for your child for their well being.

I don't understand the people who enter the 'adoption' area/forum (call it what you like) and answer questions about it when they have no knowledge of the subject matter. If they do they should put it in the 'source' area.

GO EARN TWO POINTS ELSEWHERE!!!

I understand everyone has their point of view, but really... you mean no harm!!!!!