Why aren't HFC cars available on the market just yet?

Question

I know the answer to this one but wanted to hear your answers as well. Gas here is 3.50 cents a gallon and that's for regular gas and I live in California. Carbon Monoxide has tore a hole in the ozone layer. So, I know the technology is there for Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars (or HFC cars) so the question is this?

Why aren't they on the market yet?

The fuel that you use is water (If I am not mistaken) and the emissions are water vapor so it'd be good for the enviroment. People have said try boycotting gas stations on a certain day but that does not work folks ... and here's why. The people who run the gas stations, already paid for the gas. The gas companies don't care if the person that bought the gas goes under.. they've made their money already!

So what can we do? How can we get these cars out on the market today and stop the gas wars? How can we fight big industry and stop paying $3.50 a gallon for gas?

Answer 1

not cost effective yet, people don't buy hybrids because they have very few models and the cost is still not worth it even with the gas savings

Answer 2

You're slightly wrong on your description of how Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars work. HFC's take gaseous Hydrogen (H2), and put it with Oxygen (O2) and then adds a spark in a combustion reaction, with the end product being water (H20). Now, this seems great, since this would be free, readily available energy.

Now to answer the question. H2 gas is not a naturally occuring thing, that is, we can't just go to the hydrogen mine and go nuts filling up tanks. We either have to make it by running electricity through water, breaking it into H2 and O2, or by doing complex chemical reactions to synthesize it. If we use electricity, we have to get it from somewhere, and that somewhere is usually coal power plants and usually produces MORE pollution than just burning gasoline. The same is true for chemical methods - you put more in than you get out. So, we scientists are actually struggling with not only finding a way to make it viable to have large-scale production of hydrogen (Remember, America alone has about 300 million autos), but then to build an infrastructure to support it. We can't just put a hydrogen pump in, dust off, and be happy. We need pumps, trucks, cars, routes, and manufacturers of all of these.

So, while the prospect of a hydrogen-based economy is a tempting one, it's not quite so awesome and clean-cut as you might like.

Hope that helped. Cheers!

Answer 3

#1 - Hydrogen does't appear anywhere in nature in free form

#2 - Producing hydrogen requires tons of energy, usually from coal, oil and natural gas

#3 - There is no infrastructure.  America is having a hard time with an E85 infrastructure.  It will be 20 years before we are close to having a hydrogen one.

#4 - Cost

Since the Hydrogen in the HFC car is more of a form of energy storage than an energy source, recent advances in ultracapacitor technology will far surpass what hydrogen can do.

Therefore, although they have been telling us for the last 15 years that hydrogen cars were only 10 or 15 years away, they are still 10 to 15 years away and in 10 years will probably be 20 years away.

Answer 4

First, CO2 (carbon dioxide) emitted by human activities is the global warming gas that we're worried about.

The fuel required for HFCs is hydrogen (H2), not water.  The byproduct is water.  Hydrogen fuel is not so easy to come by.  One way of making H2 is to use chemical reactions to remove hydrogen from hydrocarbons--in other words, oil.  But this requires putting in a lot of energy, and one byproduct of that process is CO2.  Not much benefit there.  

Another way of making H2 is splitting water using electricity.  If the electricity is generated by solar cells, this could be an efficient process.  

Even if you can make H2 without using oil and without using tons of energy to begin with, there is the problem of storage.  H2 is extremely flammable and explosive in air.  It is also a gas (takes up a lot of volume) unless cooled to -423 degrees F or compressed under very high pressure.  Furthermore, H2 is an extremely small molecule and therefore difficult to contain.  It diffuses through materials more quickly than larger molecules, so you'll be gradually losing fuel.

Many researchers are hard at work trying to overcome all these challenges.  But it'll probably be awhile before HFC cars are on the market.  Dust off your bicycle!

Answer 5

As always, the best way to force new technology onto the market is to build it yourself, drive it yourself and become an evangelist simply by proving it works.

Hydrogen is hard to work with.

Biodiesel and electric are a lot easier to work with, and these technologies have been around for 100 years.  The very first diesel ran on vegetable oil while the streets of New York were full of electric cars. Those technologies work and can be built by common citizens.  As can strong-hybrid PHEVs.

I seriously distrust hydrogen as a fuel.  It still faces several very difficult engineering challenges (on-vehicle storage, for one.)  Because of this, I believe it's a "pie in the sky" technology not unlike "cold fusion".

I'm really concerned that HFC is being thrown as a distraction, a snow job.  So people don't pursue more realistic options, and we keep buying gas and gas cars in the short-term.

Answer 6

Big oil and Government.  I represent a co. that sells a patented hydrogen fuel cell garanteed to increase milieage by 50-100%. [e-mail], send an email and i will forward the info to whoever wants it.  thanks

Answer 7

This engine has been known about for almost a century,

Rudolph Steiner ,who invented it ,was assasinated for his genius ,

at a time when petroleum was just taking off .

When the illuminati cannot make  money any more  on petrol ,and when they have figured out a way of charging for Water ,Air ,wind and Sun

we will see more of Alternative energies

Answer 8

Several years ago I decided to jump on the hydrogen band wagon and get a car converted to run on it. I wanted to produce my own hydrogen so there would be no (or little) cost. What I discovered in doing research is what very few people mention when talking about hydrogen. Yes it is produced from water but it also requires electricity - a lot of electricity. Hydrogen is produced by running an electric current through water and breaking the H2O bond into hydrogen and oxygen. Unfortunately electricity is primarily produced by burning coal (at least in my part of the country). And it takes much more energy to produce hydrogen than it does for an equivalent amount of gasoline. Also we cant produce enough electricity to meet demands now. So you would replace the car emissions with higher electric generator plant emissions - and the cost would be higher to boot. Iceland has a great program because they produce electricity from thermal vents and they have lots of fresh water. In the US that is not feasible at this time. Until we get electric power generation converted to less polluting methods, it really doesn't make sense to try converting to hydrogen. Perhaps Iceland could mass produce and begin exporting a cheap hydrogen?

Answer 9

Hydrogen is out of the question right now.  It will be more expensive then gasoline, and there are other very good way to power a car.  Electric power is one and it is being used right now in a sport car.  Tesla is electrically powered and all are sold for '07.  Orders are being taken for '08. at a hundred thousand dollars a copy.  A sedan is in the works of the same company, and is said to be in the sixty thousand dollar range.  The only catch is, it's not good for more than two hundred mile without a charge, but it can be charged in three hours.  I would think that other manufactures will see the light and get on the bandwagon....we will see.

Answer 10

The answer is not easy to assimilate but is possible to deduce.  There are two paths right now with the HFC cars.  One that is already implemented and one that is still in research.  The CH4(Methane) method has been created and implamented in PennState where most of the research is being done.  The other is carbon nanotubes.  This is a new science that it's concept is to deliver the Hydrogen directly to the cell.  The reason is politics.  The Oil manufacturers of the country control almost all the auto industries and they have their hands in everything.  Secondly, PennState is way too stingy to give the patten up to mass produce the cars.  And lastly, the cost of a fuel cell is so astonishing it would not be feasible to create if no one can afford them before we can perfect the mass production.