Why did Jack Johnson avoid certain fighters? Part Deux?

Question

This question is back by popular demand, I have received several emails from people asking why I didn't let it go longer. Well here it is again, Rocky Marciano gets a lot of heat from people saying he fought old men, Jack Dempsey because he avoided black fighters. Now im looking for an answer to why Jack Johnson avoided Sam Langford (yes he beat Langford as a contender) Joe Jeanette ,who said in Ken Burns book, ''Unforgivable Blackness'' that Johnson turned his back on his race when he won the title. And Sam Mcvey. In my last question I stated Peter Jackson but he passed away b4 Johnson ( Thanks for the info Galactus) Anyway why the double standard???? I love Johnson for his style and attitude. But fair is fair. People would have paid good money in Europe and Cuba to see Johnson fight these legends. So I dont want ANY racially biased replies, only honest answers from people who know the game. Why did Johnson avoid fighters who were obviously the best? Peace all!!!!

Answer 1

Johnson was a great fighter. He did however get floored by a middleweight, Stanley ketchel.  Of course Mickey Walker (middleweight) floored a couple of heavyweights also.

Johnson would say later on he agreed to carry Ketchel. Why was a heavyweight fighting a middleweight. As far as the idea Dempsey was afraid of Johnson is pure nonsense. Dempsey was a boxer counter/ puncher and had KO power in both hands. Johnson did also. Who would have won? Well, i really believe it would have been the man who landed the fist pure bomb.  I choose to leave race from this question and just say it would have been one barn burner. The only real problem is there was no money in such a fight. Fighters today do it all the time, fight the big draws for the big bucks. But, this is a good question. Why did Johnson avoid the great ones?????

Answer 2

IMO,  race did have something to do with it, along with MONEY. Johnson couldn't draw flies fighting the Sam Langford's of the day over and over and was limited by race, in fighting white fighter's as they were few and far between. Afterall, he chased Burns to Austrailer and had to wait while they brought back a retired Jim Jeffries. If it were today and Don King had Johnson on PPV, then he'd fight and probably beat most all heavyweights of today.

Answer 3

First of all my friend, Marciano never ever refused to fight anyone, never ducked anyone and feared no one at all.  He also fought the very best fighters of his era and even though some may have been a little older, that too is deceptive.  Rocky beat Joe Louis on the way to the title and it's true that the Brown Bomber was not as great a fighter as he was earlier in his career and Rocky actually hated fighting him.  Louis to his credit told Rocky that he would have been hard to beat even during his prime and that's a fact.  Archie Moore didn't win the light heavyweight title until 1952 at the age of 38 and held on to it almost 10 more years.  He beat the number #1 ranked contender Bob Baker to earn the chance at Marciano along with Nino Valdez a fact a lot of people choose to forget.  Jersey Joe Walcott was obviously the champion having knocked out Ezzard Charles and was dangerous, crafty, fast and it's quite possible that other than Rocky, no other man would have beaten him that night in 1952.  He got better obviously as he got older it seemed as well.  And Ezzard Charles was one of the best of that particular time along with Roland LaStarza and highly ranked.  Rocky cannot help the era he fought in, or the fighters he fought, but it still won them all and usually by kayo.

Now to the original question sir about Jack Johnson.  He was a very gifted and skilled fighter with defensive prowess like few fighters ever had in the ring without a doubt.  He was almost that eras version of Ali with his taunting opponents like Tommy Burns when they fought.  At that particular time in boxing history, he was a loathed man by many in the white race without a doubt with his exploits with white women etc and many wanted a white champion, thus the Great White Hope.  Jeffries who he later beat, was a retired fighter that they urged to come back in 1910 having lost some 80 lbs to get into shape was no match.  The actual best fighters of that time were McVey who Jack fought several times but never for the title, Langford once and never for the title and Joe Jeanette several times but never for the title.  It very well may have been for financial reasons why these fights never took place as I'm not really certain as to why.  Johnson instead fought Stanley Ketchel a true middleweight, Al Kauffman,  Jim Flynn a decent fighter, Jim Johnson and Frank Moran before losing to Jess Willard instead of the black fighters.  It is fair to say that he avoided the very best particularly Langford.  He like Marciano though are all time greats and legends regardless and I rank both of them in my own personal top 10.  Great question and thanks for posting it again.

Answer 4

In contemporary times, it's very hard to determine who is ducking who.  I see Cotto fans screaming for a Mayweather fight, claiming FM is ducking MC.  I don't see Cotto as anxious.  As far a ducking done way back when, I think it's impossible to determine that...the only thing I believe from that era is what was recorded on film.  Why did Jack Johnson avoid certain fighters?  I don't think that's provable.  Some guys will scream for a fight, but then not agree to a fair cut, then blame the other guy for "ducking", Bernard HOPKINS, I'm looking right at you.

But anyway, I don't believe there is enough film evidence to judge who were the best, who was ducked and who was treated fairly.  It's a lot like looking at a Dino's skeleton and saying that it's skin was green with strips and triangular scales.  Its my assertion that the only thing that's real in boxing is what happens in the ring, and even that is sometimes staged.  The judges are biased, the commentators promote and shill the "company fighter" like Lampley promotes De La Hoya, the organizations shake down the fighters.  The fighters  say things they dont mean in order to sell pay-per-views.  Reality only starts when the bell rings.

Answer 5

Everything in life is about money. He was not afraid of Sam or Joe but if he can make more money fighting lesser opponents, why not. That is why I always place Jack Johnson below Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey and Larry Holmes.

Answer 6

After he won the title, Johnson spent money like water or wine, women & song. His expenses were huge & Jack realized that there was no money in fighting other black fighters  in the US especially since he could a lot more more as Champ by fighting white fighters.  Johnson was not alone in these economics. Dempsey signed to fight Wills & the tickets were even printed up ( they are collector's items today ) but the fight never materialized due to lack of ticket sales. It was common place among many fighters then, such as my favorites Jim Jefferies & Bob Fitzsimmons , to fight many black fighters before they became champ no black fighters after they became Champ simply because both Black & White Champs recognized the fact that there was no money in fighting Black Contenders.---- Check out the record of some my other favorite fighters who  true great Black old-time Champs like Joe Gans, Original Joe Walcott & George Dixon and you will see that they  all did the same thing as the White Champs did.

Answer 7

Interesting question, I missed the first one.   Clearly Toughguy is on the right track, money played a role in the choice of opponents, but the truth be told it was so long ago it is all but speculation as to why Johnson chose the opponents he did, and slighted others.  Racial tension so colored (pun intended) Johnson's legacy that almost no one questioned why he never gave worthy Black fighters of the day a shot at the title.  I think politics played a role, the White establishment was pretty much dedicated to seeing Johnson lose the title to a White fighter so that might have had something to do with it, but you would think Johnson would have had more of a say in his opponents, so Jack is at least partially responsible for Langford and the others not getting a shot.  The legal problems that Johnson encountered played a role as well, but in the end, only Jack Johnson could accurately answer why he fought who he did.