Why do Grece wanna change our name?

Question

Why don't they change their name ?

MACEDONIA forever!!

Answer 1

Greeks must be afraid of consequences on Macedonian membership everywhere: as a member state Macedonia would be in position to fight over about minority rights of Macedonians in Greece, about the property left there, to claim re-compensation, etc...

Oppressive measures in the period following World War II

The Greek policy towards Macedonians in the course of the Second World War had a dual goal: to maintain the process of the assimilation and de-nationalization of Macedonians and the prevention of the creation and development of a Macedonian liberation movement with a Macedonian national programme in the Aegean part of Macedonia. With this aim in mind, the Greek right wing formed a variety of nationalist and chauvinist organizations in the Aegean part of Macedonia, such as the Protection of Northern Greece (I'VE), the Pan-Greek Liberation Organization (PAO) and others such, as well as a variety of military formations which persecuted the Macedonians, using terror, murder, Mass court proceedings, deportation, plundering, confiscation of property, clearances, resettlement, etc. In the given period 3,482 houses were burned down, 80 villages consisting of 1,605 families were plundered and 1,045 head of large live-stock and 23,382 head of small livestock were confiscated. In order to put the anti-Macedonian persecution on a legal basis the Greek authorities passed laws, decrees and other enactments by which Macedonians were subjected to large-scale persecution. We shall mention only a few such laws: Law N2 453 and Law TOD of July 1945 "on the securement of public safety"; Law 509/1945 "on public order and banditry"; Law 543/45 against organizations and individuals acting in favor of secession from the Greek territories", etc. The anti-Macedonian harshness of these laws surpassed the Compulsory Law S2 2366 of 7th September 1938, passed by Metaxas' regime and aimed at erasing every possible trace of the Macedonian national character of the Aegean part of Macedonia. Under these laws Macedonian men and women, members of the Macedonian national democratic organizations, the National Liberation Front (NOF), the National Liberation Youth Association (NOMS) and the Antifascist Women's Front (AFZ) were proclaimed bandits. As soon as a person was proclaimed a bandit his or her next of kin and any other people who could be suspected of helping him or her were interned, in accordance with the regulations of these laws. Law 543/45 "against autonomist activity" helped rig thousands of charges against Macedonians accused of co-operation with Bulgaria and Yugoslavia in activities aimed at the secession of the Aegean part of Macedonia and similar offences. Special commissions formed in every village or other populated place preferred mass charges against Macedonians to the District Attorney's office, with groundless accusations of collaboration with the occupier, autonomistic activities and the like. In the Kostur region alone 4,500 Macedonian men and women were accused of autonomistic activities, even though most of them were on active service with ELLAS. According to the information available, in the period from 1945 to the end of 1974 9,924 Macedonians were remanded in custody and 4,203 were convicted. 23,811 Macedonian men and women were interned on the basis of decisions of the special Security Commission. It was becoming clear that the Greek authorities were resolved to continue the oppression of the Macedonians, notwithstanding the cost, and thus to force them to flee across the border. The wave of refugees was growing daily. Under the pressure exerted by the Greek authorities entire villages fled across the borders. The most -typical examples of forced migration of Macedonians are to be found in eastern Macedonia, where Greek terrorist bands killed 29 and imprisoned 3,100 Macedonians and expelled 600 Macedonian families across the borders - and this in the period from February to the end of March 1945 alone. The situation was no different in the other areas of Aegean Macedonia. In 1948 the majority of the Macedonian population of western and central Aegean Macedonia fled to Yugoslavia and Albania in order to save their lives. More than 60,000 Macedonian men and women were forced to seek, refuge outside the country, fleeing across the border. As well as all these methods and measures, the Greek authorities attempted one of the greatest crimes against the Macedonians. In June 1946 a group of Greek Members of Parliament suggested that the Greek Parliament issue a decree for the forced deportation of all Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia, a suggestion which was justified by their alleged activities, which were said to be a threat to the integrity and sovereignty of Greece and a danger to the peace. In the period before the announcement of the suggestion and during the debate in Parliament a campaign of slander against Macedonians was carried out by the entire state and propaganda machinery, this being aimed at preparing domestic and international public opinion to regard the eventual implementation of this suggested action as completely justified. Thus Macedonians were described, among other things, as the "Sudets of the Balkans” and it was said that for as long as they were present in Greece they would represent a cause of war and a focus of war among the Balkan lands: or in other words, there would be no peace. For certain reasons both internal and external the Greek Parliament did not pass a decree on the exile of the Macedonians, but the Greek right wing clung to its policy on the exodus of the Macedonians. One of the Crimes committed by the Greek monarcho-fascists was the forced resettlement of their villagers and the dumping of them in special camps in urban centres, which had begun as early as 1946. According to the statistics, 213,000 people were forcibly exited from the Aegean part of Macedonia. The terror, mass murder and other forms of repression proved ineffective when it came to breaking the spirit of Macedonians. Indeed, the Macedonian national liberation movement grew into an important and in certain periods even a decisive military and political factor in the country, one with clear and defined strategic goals. More than 20,000 Macedonians served in the ranks of the Democratic Army of Greece (DAG) and its auxiliary services. The liberated territory, covering mainly the territory of Aegean Macedonia, had popular rule, Macedonian people's schools, a Macedonian people's printing-house which published newspapers and other material in Macedonian, cultural and arts groups and other Macedonian institutions. Faced with the stand taken by the Macedonians the Greek authorities tried yet another cunning manoeuver. In order to shatter the unity of the Macedonian people and of the Macedonian Liberation Movement the Greek government passed, on 23rd May 1949, a strictly confidential decree by which the Macedonians, until then considered "Bulgarians", and other non-Greek elements which were to be uprooted, were renamed "Slavised Greeks", and were to be treated as such by the Greek authorities: they were thus to be granted all civil rights, and included in all sectors of political and state life and the like. Their being called by the names Bulgarians or Slav Macedonians was strictly prohibited, and the name of "Slavophone Greek" was the only one permitted. The governmental agencies were instructed to adapt themselves and to help the Macedonians in every way possible to develop trust in the state and to seek its protection, so that they would begin to approach government representatives freely for the solution of their problems. This attempt on the part of the Greek right wing also proved to be a total failure. The decree had no effect on the Macedonians. They carried on with their struggle for national liberation and for the affirmation of their national identity with even greater intensity. As a result, the Greek authorities continued and even reinforced the violent repression of the Macedonians. On 20th January 1948 the Greek government passed the "M" Decree ordering the confiscation of the property of those individuals who had taken part in the Civil War on the side of the Communist Party of Greece (CPG) and NOF, and of those who had assisted these organizations and whose Greek citizenship had been revoked. In addition to this decree, the "N" Decree was passed on 2nd April 1948. This decree revoked the right of inheritance of all those who had taken part in or helped the Civil War. In view of the fact that large numbers of Macedonians had taken part in the Civil War, the consequences of this Decree and other regulations were borne mostly by them, but, after all, that was the main intention of the decrees. The implementation of these laws and decrees continued even after the Civil War had come to an end, for they were supported by enactments issued by the Ministerial Council of Greece: Nos. 944/1950; 253/1951; 826/ 1952. All these regulations were sanctioned by article 105, inserted into the Greek Constitution in 1952. The aim of this was to prevent Macedonia ns returning to their homes even after the end of the Civil War. Commissions for the confiscation and expropriation of refugees' property and for the allocation of this to new owners were formed in every district. The property confiscated and expropriated from the Macedonians was allotted to people loyal to the regime and to those who had distinguished themselves in the struggle against DAG and particularly against the Macedonians. Most of these people were brought in from the Greek hinterland. On 23rd February 1953 a meeting of the Greek military and administrative authorities in Macedonia was held in Thessaloniki at which it was decided to propose that the Greek government pass a law on the resettlement and re-inhabiting of the s

Answer 2

Macedonia, Macedonian!

Always, Forever!

Answer 3

you can bark as much as you want!

MACEDONIA IS GREEK

Answer 4

Greeks want to change our name to justify the genocide they did to Macedonians after 1913, after the Balkan wars.

Comedy: Greek by Name

By Hans Lothar Schteppan

February 12, 2008

Source: Forum Plus, Number 123, 01.02.2008

The satire "Greek by name" from December 12, 2007, is characterized as successfully funny and even humourous, sadly however reality is seldom a "comedy".

If for the Greeks the "name" issue REPRESENTS "Support for the State Philosophy" which is overly excessive, then for the Macedonians it represents a risk of "losing their country and ethnic existense".

Macedonians have been using this name for at least 1,500 years or since many tribes settled the Balkans and mixed with the indigenous people. Greeks on the other hand have gained Macedonian territory, specifically their northern province which for the longest time they called "Northern Greece" only 95 years ago when they took possession of 51% of Macedonia in 1913. Only in 1989 did Greece change the name of its northern province to "Macedonia" under the motto "Attack is the best defense".

It is absurd that Macedonians are even talking to the Greeks knowing that they have little chance of making progress in these unfair negotiations. Thanks to Greece's threat of veto and its irresponsible use of it as well as its position in NATO and the EU it has all the help it needs from the European Community to hold Macedonia back as long as it wants.

Greece very cunningly and abruptly rejected Macedonia's name in 1992 in Lisbon before anyone had a chance to "examine the facts". This rejection also came with misinformation and confusion leading the unaware European ministers to come to the wrong conclusion. Greece lead the European Community into believing that the name "Macedonia" was of no importance to the Republic of Macedonia because allegedly this was a name created by Tito when Yugoslavia became a state of republics in 1944. Thus Greece's strong objection to the name was laid on a foundation of lies. The EU states, without consulting historical data and without examining the facts, were quick to take Athens's side. A similar scenario was repeated in 1993 when Macedonia applied for membership into the United Nations. It seems that justice is not important these days and the sacred Greek might is always placed ahead of Macedonia's right.

If we examine past approaches to the name issue taken by our American "mediator" of the UN, we will find that the whole process is biased in Greece's favour. Actions taken during briefings in Skopje in 1994 and 1995 at best can be described as "desperate".

With the exception of naming the Skopje Airport "Alexander the Great", every gesture Macedonia made in Greece's view should be positive but from what experience has shown Greece has been relentless and has, without thinking twice, used all ammunition delivered to its hands against Macedonia.

Macedonia on the other hand has a great heritage which modern Europe considers to be the cradle of western culture. Ironicaly even though it is well known that Alexander the Great was Macedonian, no one complained when Greece named its airport "Alexander the Great" in late 1989. What justification did the Greeks have? That Alexander the Great spread "Hellenism" to the world during his expeditions? If that were true, and no one can deny that modern Europe in its entirety has profited immensely from Hellenism, then why is there not a single European nation (besides Greece) Greek today? Why is there not a single nation outside of Europe, where Alexander ventured, Greek today?

When Slav tribes were settling the Balkans in the 6th and 7th centuries AD the ancient Greeks had already abandoned Greece and others settled in their place. For well known reasons the Greeks left Greece at the end of the 4th century but the descendents of the ancient Macedonians remained all while Macedonia was a Roman province. Thus the descendents of the ancient Macedonians lived in Macedonia as the descendents of the ancient Thracians lived in Thrace and as the descendents of the Ancient Epirians lived in Epirus.

In time these people assimilated with the Slav tribes who in turn adopted those lands as their home and left their genetic markers in the modern populations. So today we have Slav and ancient Macedonian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Macedonians the same as we have Thracian genetic markers in the blood of the modern Bulgarians and modern Turks living in Eastern Thrace. The same can be said about the modern Greeks and Albanians who carry in their blood the genetic markers from the ancient Epirians.

Even though it is well known that the Turko-Tatar Bulgars settled the Eastern Balkans 150 years after the Slav tribes and took the Slavic language from them, does not prevent the modern Bulgarians from asserting that today's Macedonians allegedly speak "Bulgarian".

Further forward in time, during the 9th century according to George Shtatmiller author of the book "History of South-Easter Europe" the Greeks, drawn by the Slav settlements of Greece, returned to their former fatherland and assimilated the Slavs and Albanians settling that region. So how can the Greeks then claim to be related to the ancient Macedonians?

Contrary to any Greek assertions, Greeks in reality never settled Macedonian territories, not in ancient nor any other time until the 20th century. Macedonians on the other hand have conquered and have occupied Greek lands. The ancient Macedonians, through the League of Corinth, held hegemony over the Greeks for over 120 years during which time they also occupied Athens for a short period.

Thus prior to the 20th century Macedonia was never Greek, not during Roman times when both Macedonia and Greece were Roman colonies, not during the Middle Ages, not during Ottoman times and certainly not until after the 1912, 1913 Balkan Wars when Greece, for the first time, by virtue of conquest, was awarded Macedonian lands including Solun and parts of Thrace. And this Greece did not do alone but with help from its neighbours Serbia, Bulgaria and Montenegro and with the blessings of the Great Powers. Thanks to the Great Powers, Russia in particular, for their support of the four Balkan monarchies which united and declared war on the Ottomans without themselves being swallowed up by Austro-Hungary or Romania.

Let us also remind the world that the Thracians and Epirians disappeared after 1913 only as a result of brutal hellenization at the hands of the Greek state, brutal Bulgarization at the hands of the Bulgarians and Islamization due to Ottoman influence. The Macedonians occupied by Serbia to some extent survived Serbian attempts at assimilation and began to regain their Macedonian consciousness under the cover of Yugoslavia.

It is sad to say that Macedonia's annexation in 1913 happened with the blessing of International right which now reminds it of the shame it committed. It is not fear of the Macedonian hammer that Greece is afraid but of the fear of facing its own shame in public.

As protectors of the European heritage which has flourished for centuries, European Union parliamentarians should be ashamed of forcing Macedonia, a state which in the past has done so much for Europe, to accept a farcical name like "FYROM". This again proves that Europe values business and money far above justice, truth, etiquette and morality.

If this small country has learned anything, it has learned how unfair Europe can be. The 2001 Ohrid Agreement was forced upon it by Brussels bureaucrats without even examining the facts or consulting history. Europe has shown no care for the dangers under the sword of Demiclis it has created for this young state. With this kind of attitude how does Europe expect to hold a united existence?

The only option Macedonia is left with to protect its rights is to present its case to the international community.

Answer 5

3rd April of 2008 is a historical day. Skopja took a big hit from Greece,France,Spain and Italy. All these have their own history and they understand what problem the Greeks have. We never still history from anyone. Skopjan steal history even from Bulgarian(that why they support us). Skopjans Do you remember Mr. Grigorof? He gave an interview in tv station and he made clear that :"We the Skopjans, are slavic nation and as all the historian knows the slavic nation came in Balkans 900 years after the Alexander The Great. So we do not have any connection with the Macedonias. Macedonias are Greeks. It has been prooved many times".

It is not a coincidense that Mr. Gligorof almost die from terror attack in his own country. It is good also to ask some skopjan  journalist that had anonymous telephones and told them to change whay they were saying otherwise will have major problems.

This tactic belongs to midieval ages. We cannot accept countries that steal, donot respect their neighbours.

Skopjans population is 2 millions, and the skopjanas less than the half of them. Very soon you will be albanians.

Good Luck.

Answer 6

yeah, i know it's ridiculous. i hope they come to their senses and realize that this whole dispute is bad for them as well

Answer 7

Macedonia is Greek.  Have you not studied any history EVER in your life?!

Quotations from Classical Sources Relating to Macedonia

Hesiod:

"And she conceived and bore to Zeus, who delights in the thunderbolt, two sons, Magnes and Macedon, rejoicing in horses, who dwell round about Pieria and Olympus."

(Hesiod, Catalogues of Women and Eoiae 3 [Loeb, H.G. Evelyn-White])

Herodotus:

"For in the days of king Deucalion it (i.e. a Makednian tribe) inhabited the land of Phthiotis, then in the time of Dorus, son of Hellen, the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus; driven by the Cadmeians from this Histiaean country it settled about Pindus in the parts called Macedonian; thence again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into Peloponnesus, where it took the name of Dorian."

(Herod. I, 56, 3 [Loeb, A.D. Godley])

"Tell your king (Xerxes), who sent you, how his Greek viceroy (Alexander I) of Macedonia has received you hospitably."

(Herod. V, 20, 4 [Loeb])

"Now, that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know."

(Herod. V, 22, 1 [Loeb])

"But Alexander (I), proving himself to be an Argive, was judged to be a Greek; so he contended in the furlong race and ran a dead heat for first place."

(Herod. V, 22, 2)

"The Peloponnesians that were with the fleet were ... the Lacedaimonians, ... the Corinthians, ... the Sicyonians, ... the Epidaurians, ... the Troezenians, ... the people of Hermione there; all these, except the people of Hermione, were of Dorian and Macedonian stock and had last come from Erineus and Pindus and the Dryopian region."

(Herod. VIII, 43 {Loeb])

"Three brothers of the lineage of Temenos came as banished men from Argos to Illyria, Gauanes and Aeropos and Perdiccas."

(Herod. VIII, 137, 1 [Loeb])

"For I (Alexander I) myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery."

(Herod. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])

Thucydides:

"The country by the sea which is now called Macedonia ... Alexander I, the father of Perdiccas (II), and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from Argos."

(Thuc. II, 99, 3 [Loeb, C. F. Smith])

Isocrates:

"Argos is the land of your fathers."

(Isoc., To Philip, 32 (Loeb, G. Norlin])

"It is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom, to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race."

(Isoc., To Philip, 127 [Loeb])

" ... all men will be grateful to you: the Hellenes for your kindness to them and the rest of the nations, if by your hands they are delivered from barbaric despotism and are brought under the protection of Hellas."

(Isoc., To Philip, 154 [Loeb])

Polybius:

"This is a sworn treaty made between us, Hannibal ... and Xenophanes the Athenian ... in the presence of all the gods who possess Macedonia and the rest of Greece."

(Pol. Histories, VII, 9, 4 [Loeb, W.R. Paton])

"How highly should we honor the Macedonians, who for the greater part of their lives never cease from fighting with the barbarians for the sake of the security of Greece? For who is not aware that Greece would have constantly stood in the greater danger, had we not been fenced by the Macedonians and the honorable ambition of their kings?"

(Pol. Hist., IX, 35, 2 [Loeb])

Strabo:

"And Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece."

(Strab. VII, Frg. 9 [Loeb, H.L. Jones])

Arrian:

"He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks, save the Lacedaimonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia."

(Arr. I, 16, 7 [Loeb, P. A. Brunt])

"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Greece and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury; ... (and) I have been appointed leader of the Greeks ..."

(Arr., Anab. Alex. II, 14, 4)

Pausanias:

"They say that these were the tribes collected by Amphiktyon himself in the Greek Assembly: ... the Macedonians joined and the entire Phocian race ... In my day there were thirty members: six each from Nikopolis, Macedonia and Thessaly..."

(Paus. Phokis VIII, 2 & 4 [Loeb, W. Jones])

"Belistiche, a woman from the coast of Macedonia, won with the pair of foals ... at the hundred and twenty-ninth Olympics."

(Paus. Eleia VIII, 11 [Loeb])

Plutarch:

"Yet through Alexander (the Great) Bactria and the Caucasus learned to revere the gods of the Greeks ... Alexander established more than seventy cities among savage tribes, and sowed all Asia with Greek magistracies ... Egypt would not have its Alexandria, nor Mesopotamia its Seleucia, nor Sogdiana its Prophthasia, nor India its Bucephalia, nor the Caucasus a Greek city, for by the founding of cities in these places savagery was extinguished and the worse element, gaining familiarity with the better, changed under its influence."

(Plut. Moralia. On the Fortune of Alexander, I, 328D, 329A [Loeb, F.C. Babbitt])