Question:

Why do people blame feminism for sexism in custody battles when history tells us...

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That female-preferred custody decisions predate feminisms involvement in family courts by decades and that in fact, during feminism's second wave the court system adjusted itself to become MORE (not less) equal toward fathers than it had been in the previous decades?

"But by the 1920's, the maternal preference for custody in English and American law, regardless of the child's age, became as firmly fixed as the earlier paternal preference, and was encoded in statute in all 48 states. The assumption that mothers were better suited to nurture and raise children received an intellectual underpinning in the 1930's from Freudian psychoanalytic theory, which focused exclusively on the mother-child relationship, and ignored the role of the father in the child's development. The resulting idealization of motherhood was often reflected in custody decision-making, as in this 1938 Missouri judicial opinion: "There is but a twilight zone between a mother's love and the atmosphere of heaven."

The maternal presumption for custody remained firm for many decades in the United States, challenged only after the divorce rate began its dramatic rise in the 1960's. Spurred on by fathers' claims of s*x discrimination in custody decisions, constitutional concerns for equal protection, the feminist movement, and the entry of large numbers of women into the workforce, most states had substituted the standard of the "best interests of the child" for the tender years presumption by the mid 1970's. For the first time in history, custody decision-making was to be rooted in a consideration of the child's needs and interests, rather than based simply on the gender of the parent."

http://www.stanford.edu/group/psylawseminar/Child Custody in the USA (Page 1 of 5).htm

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  1. ^^^They've also blamed Bill Clinton for North Korea's nukes, Hurricane Katrina, the crucifixion of Jesus, the break-up of Ryan Philippe and Reese Witherspoon, liver spots, the cable guy's chronic lateness, and clouds.

    Some people assume that anything that gives women an unfair advantage must be the result of feminism. If anything, we're more opposed to having unfair advantages than anyone.


  2. Not to ask a stupid question, but did you know that 1920 doesn't predate first wave feminism?

  3. The discrimination against men in court can be linked to sexism and not necessarily to feminism.  Feminists benefit from this sexism and any attempt to correct the problem is greeted with much resistance from feminsit organizations such as NOW, who deny the problem even exists.  Feminists claim they are for equality yet fail to address the inequalities of men.  They resist father's rights groups and smeat them by labeling them as organizations who are out only to help men avoid child support.  It disgusts me that people like this calim to be for equality yet trun around and blatantly disregard a fact of sexist discrimination that is happening today.  How hypocritical!

    Edit:  I am sure their are organizations out there that are as you described yet that does not offer any sort of argument that it is OK for feminist organizations to turn around and do the same thing.  If feminist organizations are going to go about touting how they are so righteous and for equality they must adress all issues of sexism.

    The main issue here is that there are sexist judges who are taking children from their father and quite frankly still imposing the Tender Years Doctrine and ignoring the best interest of the children.  Also, it does not help that feminist lobby judges and congress in order to keep surpressing men and children.

    Edit:  Thanks Guns for the link.  That load of propaganda is the type of thing we are talking about.  It is clear that NOW wishes to squash the opposition and will not rest until the Tender Years Doctrine is put back in place.  It seems that NOW has a problem with any man getting custody of his children and will not be satisfied until 100% of custody cases are resolved with mom having the kids.

  4. Thank you for saying what I've been stating since I first got on the boards.  Feminism is not responsible for an anti-male bias from males.  It is precisely the male propagated theory that women are biologically made to be mothers, and the other dogma that men cannot control their sexuality that causes women to get custody of children in divorce.  Feminism fights these ideas.  It does not support them.  

    If men could give up these two dogmatic beliefs, they would get a fair hearing in divorce courts.  But they stand firm in their dogma, and can;t understand that there is a down-side to holding these beliefs.

  5. It may have something to do with the courts awarding custody to a mother who killed her husband by shooting him in the back while he was sleeping (she's the REAL victim) - aka Mary Winkler.  After all, any woman who would murder her husband and invest the family money in a Nigerian email scam should get custody, because she's "mom."

  6. I've never blamed feminism for sexism in custody battles.  Who ever heard of feminists for sexism?  I consider myself a feminist.

    But I didn't like the sexism in my own custody battle, and it's hurt my children in the years since my divorce.  While I don't have even a passing familiarity with father's rights groups, and while my only impression of the one in my state was that their focus was more on reducing child support than on fairness to men - I do think father's rights are important and insufficiently protected.

    Which you'd think would be common ground for those against sexism, but apparently isn't, based on what I'm reading here.

  7. Because feminists vigorously OPPOSED father rights.  Feminists attack men and fathers who speak out against the bias court system.

    NOW ACTION ALERT ON "FATHERS' RIGHTS"

    http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/now.ph...

    http://www.now.org/organiza/conferen/199...

  8. Good for you for admitting the courts are biased towards women in child custody cases.

  9. I am happy to see men gaining custody of their children.  I have several male friends that have received custody of their kids and it is not always because the mom is a crack ho but because the father is the better choice.  Sometimes I have a weird thought that women getting custody flat out was either to 1/ force women to stay home as it is impossible for her to work and be primary care giver or 2/ to allow newly divorced fathers to have the freedoms to date and find another mate.  I have noticed that the non-custodial father is less involved in the childrens lives then if there is a non-custodial mother.

  10. Probably for the same reason conservatives go roaring to feminism to blame for the supposed rise in divorce rates, when in fact divorce rates are down.


  11. Edit:  Yes I agree with you.  Feminism can be blamed for too many things.  

    Anyway it's not about the history of feminism or child custody; it's about fathers being "allowed" to see their children.  And of the children having the right to see their dad.

    I have been a member of several Father's Rights Websites.

    Not a single one had hatred towards women (they have female members.)  They were about how unfair child visitation and Family laws are and how easy it is for some women to abuse the laws.

    If feminists "gave" equal rights to men/fathers, most of the "hatred" towards feminists would disappear overnight.  Bottomline, it's about equality which was exactly what the original feminists fought for.

    What is "said" about Family court (per custody) and what actually happens is two different things.  The biggest losers today are the children.

  12. Thank you so much for asking this important question.

    I see the same claims all over this forum and elsewhere too. Essentially, people who make these claims have limited understanding about feminism and its goal and history and scapegoat the feminist movement when they feel a personal loss of power.

    I have several friends who are young men without access to their children and though I find this sad for them and understand their frustration, it really bothers me when they blame feminism for their plight.

    As you've said, feminism has been fighting against this trend because it prevents children from having access to both their parents, compounds poverty for single mothers and prevents men from participating in child-rearing.

    What is so frustrating about this debate is that in so many cases men who lose custody of their children don't realize that it is their abusive behaviour towards their wife and children that enticed the courts to give custody to the mother in the first place. Since in the overwhelming majority of cases the father works longer hours and/or the mother makes a much lower salary it makes sense for the parent who is most available to have custody and the parent who makes more money to provide financial support.

  13. Because we see feminists groups defending women who murder their husbands we see feminists rushing to accuse men of rape when the accusation is false {The Duke Lacrosse case}.

    We hear feminists pushing to empower women at the expense of any true equality.

    We as men see what feminists are doing and we know what the source of misandry is and how it influences politicians and judges.

    This act about feminists just want equality is just more propaganda.

    And this poor little feminist "Why does everybody blame feminism for everything" is just more feminist deflection of their own responsibilty for what has happened and what continues to happen.

  14. I don't think many do.  Most blame the court systems, which of course are run mainly by those who are not feminist.  But perhaps those that do feel they need something to blame other than gender stereotypes.   Women get the kids because women are perceived as being better with them.  Obviously this is sexist.  Many probably feel it is unfair to fight for one groups rights and not the others...they would be right.  But they are wrong to blame it on feminisim.

    EDIT- One sign of a cult is having an "us vs. them" mentality....I would change your mentality if I were you.

  15. For the same reason people blame Bill Clinton for everything from 9/11 to Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge to the Spanish Inquisition to cancer.

    God forbid anyone THINK. It's easier just to think what Rush tells you to think.

  16. Rio- I always heard it was George Bush that was responsible for Hurricane Katrina.

    Well, I have yet to see any feminists fight for fathers' rights at all, except for one website which wanted to help out military fathers.  But that is a limited target.

    I do think feminism is blamed entirely too much for some things, and this is probably one of those times.  However, any time I see a topic about mothers and fathers getting custody of kids, feminists-actually, most women in general, and even many men- will ALWAYS give the mother the benefit of the doubt over the father, unless she's absolutely despicable.  Fathers have to prove themselves worthy of being a parent, mothers have to prove they're unworthy of being a parent.

    By the way, I don't think you've said this, but I always heard from feminists that before the feminist movement came along, it was generally always the fathers who got custody.  Something isn't adding up here.

    Until I actually see a father in person who gained primary custody of his kids in a divorce (I know they exist, but I have never, ever actually seen one), I will continue to believe that the courts are biased against fathers.  I think society as a whole is responsible for this to be honest.  Feminists focus only on mothers, traditionalists think mothers are the nurturers.  Men can't win with most people.

    LBDSM- You have a point to an extent.  But I see most women perpetuating those same myths as well.

  17. Pretty much because people like to scapegoat feminism for everything without thinking.

    But more importantly than who is to be blamed, we all have to stand together to change this. We need to make sure that society thinks in need of the child and weighs the mom and dad equally.

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