Why do pro-evolutionists deny that we are apes?

Question

As a biologist, I am astonished at the number of times that ignorant fools simultaneously promote evolution theory and claim that humans are not apes, but that humans and apes "share a common ancestor". How did this nonsense begin? We are apes. Modern taxonomy puts humans squarely within the hominoidae, the "apes". We are not some special-status species that is set off all the way back to the root of the taxonomic tree. We are apes, specifically, we are African great apes.

Now, it makes some measure of sense for creationists to deny this. At least this denial is consistent with their belief system, but why to people who promote evolution insist upon denying this basic biological fact? Why promote evolution on one side of your mouth and deny that we are apes on the other side?

What is wrong with being an ape? Most apes are far more peaceful and agreeable creatures than are many humans.

Answer 1

I think you're misreading their comments. I have not seen that comment made except in reference to the comment that we come from monkeys. Humans evolved from apes. While a monkey evolved from apes as well and can in some classifications be referred to as an ape, we are only indirectly related to them. I've seen people comment on this, that monkeys are a common ancestor but that we have not evolved from them.

In regards to your own comments; You are a human. You wolud be an African Great Ape had you not evolved. There is a difference.

For the person before me, It is fine that you believe in Creationism. Everyone can believe what they want... Do not offer reasons though; They are merely going to be illogical bait for athiests...

Why do we "thirst for knowledge"? What makes more sense; That we seek out knowledge so that we might continue to evolve as evolution would suggest; or that we ate a magic apple out of a tree. This sort of comment is not going to help your point.

Why do we have humanity? What the h**l does that mean ? We have humanity because we are human. What you were trying to imply here I am at a loss to understand.

When we die, do we just stop "being" anything? Perhaps. I would hope not. No one has ever come back though...

Why do we have traditions? This again has nothing to do with Creationism. If we evolved over time, that would have the same result, with people choosing to remember their ancestors and history. It in no way supports your position.

Why has the Bible ALWAYS been the best selling book in print? The largest religion on Earth is Christianity. That does not mean it is correct. The world used to believe the world was round. I assume you are not clinging to the idea that the Earth is round are you ? Christianity is merely more difficult to disprove, as you are trying to prove a negative not merely observe your environment.

If you have EVER witnessed the miracle of birth.. again... you offer something that has nothing to do with your point; We breed and have offspring... That offers no support for either theory. The process is in fact far from beautiful, involves a large amount of pain for the woman and until modern day medicine, could often result in the death of the mother or child should anything go wrong. You clutch onto your dead offspring as you weep over your dead lover and you tell me how beautiful the miracle of child birth is then... how merciful your God is... that he should create a world where a child can have its life taken from it before it is even able to open its eyes and see the world.

Its not the fact that people believe in Creationism that bothers me; Its the moronic reasons and ignorance they display in trying to explain their views. They should merely state that its not logical but a leap of faith they are willing to make. Clear, simple, hard to argue.

Answer 2

I think it's more a matter of semantics and confused definitions than anything.  

Most people who claim that we share a common ancestor with great apes are most likely just grouping us seperately as part of the explanation.  

And to be fair, what they're saying is correct, it's just worded in a manner that can be twisted to mean that we are not great apes, if you were so inclined to.  

Agreed though, we are part of the superfamily hominoidae, which is commonly known as 'great apes' and includes humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans.  Given our genetic and superficial similarity it's not like there can possibly be any real question over it.

Answer 3

Personally, I haven't seen many pro-evolutionists making a big deal about humans not being apes.  As many have said here, it does seem to be more of a case of semantics and perhaps a little ethnocentricism.

If there _is_ a rational reason to make a distinction between humans and gorillas, chimpanzees, and orangutans, it might be genetic.  The three later species have 24 pairs of chromosomes.  Humans have only 23 pairs.  At some point in our evolutionary history, two of our chromosomes fused into one (Chromosome #2).  The evidence of this fusion is the presence of telomeres (the structures at the end of each chromosome) in the middle of the chromosome and two centromeres (chromosomes generally only have a single centromere).

The replication error that caused this mutation in our ancestors could be seen as an event that marked our separation from our cousins.  The other "classic" distinctions like tool use and language are no longer absolute.  They are capable of both, so any distinction is one of degree (the other Great Apes just don't seem to have as high a capacity for it as humans)

The 23 pair / 24 pair distinction is probably the only absolute one can look at rationally.

Answer 4

Clearly it is a matter of semantics with some.  Even with most scientists, there seems to be a need to separate humans from our obviously closely related cousins, the existing great apes.  We get to make the classification system so I suppose we can do what we want but I agree that it isn't being objective and therefore not very scientific in my opinion.   We are apes in every way.  We  are in fact the last in a line of bipedal apes (though not all bipedal apes  were in our direct line).

Answer 5

Any bipedals before human beings were Apes of one form or another, and any "facts" to the contrary are completely

non-existant. I am a Human Being still searching for proof of our beginnings and still waiting for Charles Darwin's statement to materialise. He said: " In future ages....many fossil links will be discovered'." Well, we are still waiting since1859 for those fossils. Oh, plenty of fossils, but all Apes, and nothing which ties Human Beings to them. If you want to argue the point, arm yourself with a few facts, come back,and we'll listen to what you have to say.

Answer 6

the poltically correct view is primates

most scientists are starting to think man and ape are cousines from another blood line that may qualify as neither.

but if you're going to take the evolutionary view then man and ape have a common ancestor in protons, neutrons and electrons

somewhere along the big bang evolution a jump was made from inorganic to organic

so man, plants and beasts evolved from sub atomic and atomic particles.

Answer 7

I think Ape is an outdated term.  Humans are definitely primates, but I think apes specifically refers to gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans.

Answer 8

I never took that approach to this specific topic before. I actually think you have a pretty good point.

Answer 9

simply put man can't get over the bible

Answer 10

Well...I have asked this question over and over...if we are descendants of monkeys and apes, why are there STILL monkeys and apes? Why did ONE "evolve" and the other did not? NO ONE has EVER answered that question to any satisfaction...

I am sorry if you go about your life not believing in anything larger than yourself...that the human "spirit" means nothing to you...(to believe in that, you'd have to believe in a soul...and to believe in a soul, you would have to believe in a "creator" now, wouldn't you?)...

Why do we "thirst for knowledge"? Why do we have humanity?  When we die, do we just stop "being" anything?

Why do we have traditions?  Why has the Bible ALWAYS been the best selling book in print? If you have EVER witnessed the miracle of birth..then I challenge you to not believe once you have seen it...

I do not believe I "evolved" from an ape...period.

Answer 11

Who said this to get you so worked up?  I can totally see your point from a hard science, specimen dead on the table, biological view of the issue. I guess the question is what defines a family, or a genus? Taxonomy above the species level has always struck me as somewhat arbitrary, or at the least very subjective.

Strictly speaking we are technically a part of the "great apes" family along with Chimps, Gorillas, and Orangs.

What sets us apart from the other great apes (other than 5+ million years of divergent evolution) in my mind is mostly mental. It's our bigger brains, our more highly developed language abilities, our advanced use of tools etc.  I recognize that some other apes do use tools and have rudimentary lanuages, but in both cases they are very modest expressions of both of those traits.

So assuming that the people saying this know that we really are apes by definition. The only possible reason I could see for their denying it is that they are trying to diffuse the uproar you usually see in creationists when you remind them of the truth that stands brilliantly opposed to their faith.

Answer 12

Garden of Eden

Answer 13

Because we are not Apes. Apes are not Humans.

Both, however, are Primates. It's all quite simple, really.

Answer 14

As an anthropology student, I don’t think we deny that we ARE apes, but that we evolved FROM apes. We do share a common ancestor that we all evolved from to become gorillas, chimpanzees, humans, etc. I think we also share around 95-97% of our DNA with chimpanzees, depending on who your source is.

The thing is, humans are ethnocentric. Whatever group that we belong to, we believe it is superior to all other groups, whether it is our culture, nationality, religion, ethnicity, or species. Humans like to look for things that make us special, to set us apart from all other animals, or other people for that matter. It doesn’t really accomplish anything but to make us feel better about ourselves and our place in the universe.

Answer 15

Yeah, that annoys me, too.  We are all hominoids, thank you very much.

I think that the meme started because people thought we evolved from extant apes - chimpanzees or gorillas.  That is not true.  We share a common ancestor with existing apes.  

So the phrase "common ancestor" entered popular usage as an attempt to keep lay people from thinking that we evolved from the apes we see in the zoo.

It just so happens that the common ancester IS an ape, as are we.

Answer 16

One reason: It's the fault of anthropologists. These use ape and non-human ape interchangably. Consequently we think of human evolution as progression away from an apelike condition. It's irritating, but what are you going to do.

Answer 17

I agree...

too many topics here though- our biological based behaviour, social organisation etc...

however the argument is the same with 'the missing link', people continually discuss this topic-

however we will never find it, never know if we find it, and never be able to prove it if we found it...

evolution is fantastic, and biologically based- however many still seem to focus attention of 'special forces' that enabled the evolution of man..

the classification of humans rather than apes is based on increased cognitive/mental abilities,

however-we are apes, end of story