Why do proponents of BJJ claim this?

Question

That 90% of fights end up on the ground? A study by Dr.Bakari Akil II shows that from 300 fights he researched, 72% of fights ended up on the ground, while only 42% ended up with both of them on the ground. While this cannot be construed as fact, it makes you wonder where the 90-95% came from.

People need to understand the extreme danger of fighting on the ground.

1. Glass, nails, ect. can be on the ground.

2. He probably has friends, that won't be willing to let you win.

3. You immobilize yourself when you go to the ground and you may have to run...which is hard if you're locked up.

My point it that IN THE RING BJJ is good, but keep it there, in the ring.

I do not expect to ever use my Kenjutsu in the streets, so don't expect a sport art like BJJ to work either. That is why I am now studying Jujitsu (which is in no way related to BJJ, another annoying claim).

I am not trying to bash BJJ, I am simply telling you to recognize reality. I already know that when I'm attacked on the streets, i will not have my Katana ready on hand. So I use Jujitsu in fights, and keep Kenjutsu in the Dojo.

Answer 1

90-95% accounts for assaults and unwelcomed attacks such as muggings, rapes, robberies, and so on.

42% accounts for two combative opponents willfully engaging each other.

Answer 2

I'll try to sum up my thoughts as succinctly as possible with what my Senseis say(said) best.

'To pin your opponent is to pin yourself.'

I interpret that to mean that pinning the opponent isn't the problem.... its neglecting the fact that you are also pinned that is the problem.

Best understand the ramifications of doing so in a 'real' fight and act appropriate to the situation no?

One on one, fine, go to the ground if you want.

One on 'I don't really know how many.'....  might not be a good idea.

A 'real' fight doesn't have rules like 'no holds bard' UFC kind of stuff.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it and understand that BJJ is a more than valid and quite effective style.  On the otherhand, the ring, even if it really is 'no rules' there is still one rule - its one on one.

In a real life fight, you can't assume that so why train exclusively for that assumption?  I real life, people have friend, guns, knives, an ego to protect, nothing to loose, etc.,... That's not the same as a no holds bard in the ring - there are no friends, guns or knives to worry about in the ring.  There are no other people to protect in the ring....

Certainly BJJ has its place, but like everything else, it has its limits and the biggest fault of its practitioners (like all other styles) is believing the falacy that THEIR style is somehow immune to reality... that reality will bend to match their personal dojo's typical class.

Answer 3

Don't feed the troll.

Answer 4

That's why a lot of BJJ practitioners also learn a stand up art. Police always take the fight to the ground because most people don't know how to fight on the ground and they can control them better. You have to be aware of your surroundings. If they have friends, keep the fight off the ground or run. If there's glass on the ground, I guess someone's gonna get a boo-boo. Almost no art will work in ANY situation. A good martial artist can and will adapt to his environment and the situation at hand.

Answer 5

Like the reaserch shows, your gonna end up on the ground anyways, so why not go to the ground with some style, sure you wont get a tapout from the guy in a real fight, but at least you know you got a pritty good chances when your on the ground.  

Answer 6

A long long long time ago. Before I ever heard of Brazilian Jujitsu or ever taken any kind of martial art I ended up in 2 fights. Since I used to walk to school and to the park I was on the street a lot. Those fights took place on the concrete and both ended up on the ground. Yes the people seeking to do you harm don't care that you are on the pavement. I would have been nice to know how to get up off that hard ground back then though.  That is real. So far as mulitple attackers. I don't think much can save you from that short of a good pair of track shoes or a gun, but if you are in a fight with a mob of people I would assume at least one of them are carrying too. What I want to say is that something is better than nothing at all. I took Taekwondo and I would much rather use BJJ in a fight if I had to. That's just my opinion though. Now Being that BJJ sprang from Judo. You do realize that even though there is a emphasis on ground fighting in many schools that those takedowns are still in the art right. Takes on a new meaning when you can do a throw on your opponent and dump them on that hard ground. Since hearing Uriah Faber's story about his fight in Bali, (look it up if you don't know) he threw the first guy and broke his collar bone. He is a top fighter and he even felt the need to run against multiple attackers. I love all martial arts and they all have merit. Enjoy them and have fun with them and hopefully none of us will ever need to use them to protect our lives or loved ones.

Answer 7

Wow I find some of the answers very interesting. you have DeltaSig who doesn't want to believe this study, yet he probably swallows the 90% figure without question, even though no one has been able to show statistics that back this up. I have asked twice on here for proof of this figure and as you may expect I got cussed at and never did get a verifiable source. The actual report this came from was indeed from a Police department report on Officer involved incidents. the actual figure of incidents that went to the ground where there was still a struggle was roughly around 37%, the rest were with the suspect firmly in control and they were taken to the ground to easier facilitate hand cuffing. Keep in mind that these statistics are about police officers who have to control suspects with a minimal amount of damage for liability reasons. This report was distorted by the Gracie's to promote their style.

I would hazard a guess that many of the people who have answered in a rude fashion probably do not even train the style. In reality the number of self defense situations that go to the ground with both parties able to fight is much lower. I am discounting street fights which are basically ego battles. Of course many of those go to the ground because you have two morons that do not know how to fight. In an actual self defense situation it will more then likely be over before it can get to the ground. By over I mean you are shot or stabbed, the guy takes off with your money, or you lay him out completly very fast, or do enough damage to get out of the situation.

Too many of the UFC fans and wanna be's think street fighting and self defense are the same, and they are totally different. Street fighting is about ego, and 99% of them can be avoided if somebody is man enough not to fight. Self defense is oure survival, and I count using my training and keeping calm to defuse a situation, or back down, as part of self defense. the best self defense is not physical.

That being said the BJJ people thtat I know train it all say the last place you really want to be in a self defense situation is on the ground. To the person who said that a stand up person is just as vulnerable as a BJJ person to multiple attackers, I want some of what you are smoking. yes there is no garuntee that I would be able to beat 3 or 4 attackers, but I would have a much better shot then a straight BJJ person. My school does train scenario's where we are out in a real world environment and train mor ethen one attacker, or an attacker with weapons. This is no garuntee but at least I have trained some towards it. As for getting a hold and threatening to do permenant damage, all well and good if it's a street fight and they are his drinking buddies, but if they really don't care and it just means a bigger cut for them, do you think they will stop.

The point is his question was not meant to slam BJJ, it simply asked for proof of the 90% statistic, and why so many people on here automaticly recomend BJJ for anything. It has weaknesses like every other style. Yes you definetly at least need to know how to defend a take down,or get back on your feet, as it is a fighting range. However the style of Okinawin karate I train has many throws and take downs, and as a result I feel pretty confident at being able to stuff a take down against an average attacker, especially if they try and take it there to keep from getting hit anymore. I may not be able too against a good trained grappler, but how many run around attacking people at random?  I have never heard people say "watch out for that gang of BJJ people running around mugging people.

Botom line is nobody is saying BJJ is not effective, and cannot b very adequite for self defense, however it does have shortcomings, jsut liek every other style.

I also find it extremly funny that there have been a couple of quizes on BJJ/Judo?ground techniques, and the only person that has answered in this question that is so indignant and claims to train is Anti thesis. The rest were no wher to be found. That is what we are finding with these quizes. We find tarditional Okinawin and TKD people answering the MMA ground and striking questions, and the Muay Thaui, MMA, Judo, people answering karate and other tarditional arts questions and doing well.

I have come to two conclusions about this:

1) The basics of self defense are universal to every style. They may call it something different, or emphysize different aspects, but I answered Muay thai questions well simply because the basics are the same, and I had a Muay Thai person answer Okinawin karate questions well for the same reason.

20 There are even more posers and wanna be's on here then we origianally thoght. The same 10-14 people answer every quiz.

I think they have shown they are like ice cream. they all taste good, jsut not to everybody, but at their core they all have the same ingredients, just some have a different flavor.

Answer 8

OK here we go. Combat Sambo trains ground. do you know how it started. It started in russia with fights to the death. not in a controlled environment. They have since that day supported ground fighting on pavement. this includes submissions off their back. Fights to the death for real. what do you have against that. nothing.  

Answer 9

I read that article in Blackbelt magazine also. Although I have trained in BJJ and I can grapple well, I do not prefer to go to the ground in a street fight. In fact, I prefer to use a weapon whenever possible. I only want to grapple or to fight empty hand when I have no access to a weapon. A weapon like a rock, a glass bottle, a stick or or a pipe gives me a better sense of control over my attacker.  

Answer 10

Where is your LISTED SOURCE of this alleged study?

And if it is 72%, just for argument sake, is that not still the great majority of fights? Correct me if I am wrong. Are you retarded?

If 90% of fights end up in the ground, or 72% of fights, or 52% of fights ... it is of no consequence what the actual figure is, the majority of fights end up on the goddamn ground, and it would be beneficial to avoid worthless TMAs [like "Kenjutsu" or "Ryujutsu" or "Guilejutsu"] and actually be a practitioner of something worth while, like Brasilian ZHOOOOO ZHITSU!

E

Answer 11

I don't see why people say don't take fights to the ground with BJJ. They are just hating on our martial art. Ofcource you have to be aware of your surrondings , like nails and glass on the floor but thats just a fighting rule period, no matter what position your in. Also I think its best to take someone to the ground and and break their arm or choke them out , because not every strike is a knock out punch. and WTF is up when people say his friends can jump in and kick you , so what they can do that when your standing up as well , I dont care how good of a stand up fighter u are , you cant defend againts 4 guys striking at you. One time I got in a fight with one guy , outside of a resturant , and his 3 friends came in to help and I put the guy in a kneebar and said if you guys touch me Ill break your friends fckin leg , and they fcked off. So taking some one to the ground is actually the BEST thing to do in a street fight. Also , I agree i dont think 90 percent of fights go to the ground , put a Oakland police study said that with all their struggles with suspects almost always end up on the ground.

So in short BJJ is the best!

Alright! A respectful conversation about Martial arts in this section , thats pretty rare. Yeah I agree with you , if his buddies do come in , and your on the ground they might stomp your head in , I didnt know you where talking about retrating being a possiblity , Where I live Usually street fights are just one on one , your average Joe in a bar never betrays the sanctatity of a good ol one on one fight. But If you dont got your friends with you and they have theirs , then yeah I dont want to get into a fcking Jiu jitsu match and get soccer kicked in the teeth, Id jab cross the first sucker and run for the hills! haha

Answer 12

Well Travis A they pull those figures out of their butts.  There is no possible way of knowing such info.  You'd have to be at every single street fight that happens in America and that ain't heppening.  When I was a kid in school not one fight I was ever in went to the ground .... not a single one out of at least a half-dozen to maybe the whole of a dozen fights I was in as a school kid.  Most people's first repsonse is to strike a person and especially if they're not jujitsu students or masters.  So such a statement from any one about the percentage of fights that go to the ground is a flat out lie.  You're right there are way too many things to deal with on "concrete" such as debris not to mention the scratches that such a fighter would recieve on his elbows and knees while on the concrete as well as his back and the back of his head.  Tearing your self up on "concrete" doesn't sound to smart to me let alone something that an actual martial arts preactitioner is going to put himself through.  Even in Japanese forms of jujitsu it's better to use Kansetsuwaza to attack an attacker's small joints with while standing.  Even the throws of Japanese Jujitsu are accomplished from joint locks while standing.  While hand cuffing someone as a police officer will often call for a police officer to use ground work he still remains in a dominate position, idealy, with his knee in the subjects back as he cuffs him to prevent the subject from movement.  While jujitsu also tackles the issues of preventing movement it also relies on an attacker's movement which may sound weird, but different techniques for different situations is what it's all about.  Standing and throwing an attacker so that the joint lock rips or tears parts of human anatomy is the key, such as the ratator cuff and radial heads and radial nervs of the ends of the bones.  So fighting from your back is the place you'd least ever want to be on "concrete" and these so called statisitics and studies are "hog wash" at best.

Answer 13

Let me say that I think BJJ is a great martial art, and it's great for MMA.

But keep in mind that just like Tae Kwon Do, or kickboxing, or Muay Thai, BJJ is a sport!

That being said, it can be effective for a street fight.  I have trained in martial arts for 22 years, but I've only been doing BJJ (under 3 different instructors) since February.  All 3 of them have said that they would never take a fight to the ground on purpose, but at least they know what to do if it ends up there.

When you take out the rules of the cage, and when you take away the gi (uniform), you take alot of the effectiveness of traditional BJJ away.

When you can bite, fishhook, attack the eyes, throat, small joint manipulation, and fabric that will tear instead of choke, you level the playing field alot.  

BJJ guys are tough guys, they've proven it in the ring.

As for the question at hand, none of the 3 BJJ teachers I've had have made that claim.

James

Answer 14

Most of you except a few like katana have given answers that apply only to contest matches either inside or outside the ring.THAT IS NOT REAL VIOLENCE .Real violence makes any skill or method useless .Real violence means you will be on the ground dead or dying before you get a chance to use any of your super deadly BJJ MMA KARATE NINJA KUNG FU  techniques.

If you are having to respond to challenges or get in fights outside the sports arena then your an *** hole with bad attitude .Want to change the situation lose the *** hole attitude before you find the guy who is into real violence and you wind up laying on the ground feeling your life bleed away wondering "what just happened?"

You won't see it coming .