Why do vegetarians become vegetarians? Are "ethical reason" really justified?

Question

I have a few friends who are vegetarians because they hate the taste and texture of meat - which is fair enough. But I have one friend who became vegetarian because of "ethical issues." she told me that she thinks it's awful how some animals are kept just for human consumption (i.e force fed geese for foie gras and battery hens).

That's fine but surely if that she would still be ok to eat free-range organic meat? When I asked her this, she said "that's beside the point I think it's cruel to kill animals."

CRUEL? Isnt that a little naiive? Does she think if she was on safari and she saw a lion, it'd think it was too "cruel" to consider hunting her down? I don't see her reason as justified so was just wondering if there were any other reasons that people become vegetarian?

Answer 1

It doesn't matter if you think it is justified. I may my own choices and so does your friend.

"free-range" doesn't mean anything as it isn't legally defined.

"organic" just means that it may be healthier.

I'm afraid that your friend is not a lion and a farmed chicken is not a wild gazelle.

One is forced into existence by humans and the other is a product of two wild animals mating in their natural environment

Answer 2

I don't think that's a fair analogy. It's not the same thing to compare a human with a lion - it's a completely different idea! It's easy to argue that humans eat meat naturally, but if you consider where we are now it is not neccessary - we have access to enough other food sources. At one point that would not have been true...but it is now.

Personally I believe that the amount of meat people eat is not 'realistic' if we're talking about feeding the world - it takes much less land to grow the same amount of protein from plant sources than animal sources ect. I would also argue 'ethical reasons' - and I will agree it is 'cruel', consider the circumstances...

Anyway, I'm done now (I apologise, I hate ranting vegetarians sooo much!) xx

Answer 3

People also become vegetarians because the mass production of animals for food pollutes the environment, increases greenhouse gases (shipping them and their food all over the country in trucks for example), and starves human beings of food and water.

Grain is fed to cows instead of people so that obese Americans can continue to eat meat three times a day.  Children all over the world die from diseases related to drinking contaminated water, meanwhile, cows have all the fresh water they need to provide McDonald's with a Value Menu so giant obese Americans can get their food without even getting out of their fossil fuel burning SUVs.

So yes, there are other reasons that people become vegetarian.

Answer 4

Well the difference between a lion hunting a human and a human killing animals is that firstly - lions are natural carnivores who HAVE to eat meat. They can only digest tiny amounts of plants, if any.

As for free-range organic meat, I completely understand why your friend doesn't eat that (since i don't either). A lot of "free range" farms still kill the animals horribly. Free range just means that the animal had access to the outside world before it was slaughtered. And it is cruel for humans to kill animals. We don't even need to. Humans brutally slaughter millions of animals every day. Much more than that lion would.

Another reason for some people to turn vegetarian is because of the environment. The meat industry is one of the largest polluters, because of all the machinery in the slaughterhouse, transport etc. And cow c**p is an enormous producer of greenhouse gases. And before people go on about that we'd have more cows if we weren't eating them - ironically enough, that's untrue. Female cows (and other animals) are annually impregnated so more and more animals are produced (and so we can drink cow's milk).

Answer 5

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Answer 6

I actually really loved the taste of meat and I became a vegetarian for ethical reasons. I think you are a bit confused, and I will do my best to clear things up.

With all due respect, the naive stance seems to be believing that "organic" means "cruelty-free." "Organic" simply means that the animal was raised organically, often without use of antibiotics, growth hormones, feed that was greown using pesticides, etc. This does not translate in to any guarantee that the animal was treated better. In fact, a strong case could be made that organic meat is actually more cruel, as antibiotics help animals to survive in the very unhealthy conditions present on large farms.

Other standards that are supposed to make farming more humane (like "free-range" or "cage-free") often either have very vague standards, do little to actually improve the treatment of the animal, and/or rely on self-enforcement as little or no oversight from outside agencies exist to enforce their standards. It seems more than a little naive to think that such lax standards would actually result in real improvements. Of course, even if they did make some aspects of farming/slaughtering more humane, the sheer number of animals killed (about a million chickens an hour in the US) makes completely humane treatment impossible.

Your final paragraph is probably the most confused of all. Why should people base their ethics on what lions think is acceptable?

The ethical reasons for my vegetarianism are roughly:

-It is wrong to inflict suffering unnecessarily. There is enormous suffering caused by the meat industry. Not only is it not necessary to eat meat, it is much healthier to not eat meat.  

-Meat consumption is disastrous for the world food supply. All experts predict that meat consumption, particularly in the western nations, is going to have to fall dramatically in the near future. Livestock consume enormous quantites of grain, only a fraction of which is converted in to edible flesh. Most recently, the global food crisis brought on by high food staple prices is an effect of this.

-Meat consumption is one of the most environmentally damaging things a person can do. The meat industry is a leading contributor of greenhouse gases, is responsible for enormous amounts of deforestation, severely pollutes the environment, and is incredibly wasteful of water.

I know this is a long answer, but I wanted to give a full reply.

Answer 7

I'm a veggie for ethical reasons. I don't like violence or bloodshed and, having seen an 2 animals being slaughtered it was obvious that the animals were suffering. I love animals and just couldn't eat one. Whether the animal be a sheep, cow, pig or fish it still feels pain and fear and I don't want to buy/eat anything resulting from the suffering of an animal although I won't impose my beliefs on other people. It's a choice whether you eat animal products or not and nobody should be forced either way in my opinion.

Answer 8

i think some people just want to be made a fuss of .You will notice that although we meat eaters have to cook 2 meals when they come to dinner , they will never cook meat for US when we go to theirs .They are special you see and they are doing their bodies harm by depriving it of  a) using organs to full capacity and b) vitamins essential to its function.

They never seem to be fully alert which i reckon is down to this .

Also its because there are too many people on this planet for us all to kill food for ourselves but these vegetarians will still have kids so their arguments dont really stick , do they?I n fact it means more and more has to be produced by bad methods in order to feed yet another generation so they are adding to this problem themselves, its not just meat eaters causing this.

Answer 9

Because I love animals. That is all I am going to say since you seem so negative.

Answer 10

Why does she have to justify her feelings to you?  YOUR logic is naive if you ask me.  Lions hunt to survive and they have no choice.  People have choices and she made one.

Answer 11

Many people find that killing an animal, whatever way it is done, is cruel.  But then again, many people who are advocates for not eating meat think that free-range and organic farming also uses horrible ethics when it comes to animal treatment.  They think that there are hormones or injections, certain genders are killed due to not being able to be used, and others are killed for being "worthless" to the farm.  These people are also ignorant, and I would be willing to put money on the fact that they have never taken the initiative to have mommy or daddy drive them to see for themselves.  They get almost all their information from a specific website meat.com, and cite it often.  Vegans and Vegetarians that are more educated and experienced take time to do research on things like this before making a preconceived notion.  People who eat meat are going to eat it one way or another, whether it comes from a large impersonal company, or an organic free-range farm where the animals are greatly cared for.  

You are going to run across a lot of them on here who are the ones who didn't ask mom and pops for the ride and make their opinions by un-educated guessing. ( Not saying all- im sure some are rational as well)

Answer 12

Trust me, you are very much different from those cavemen ate Paleolithic diet and some aboriginals did cannibalism.

Human should evolve physically, emotionally and mentally healthy, as much as possible without causing any “collateral damage” to others…very much commensuration the biodiversity and ecosystem.

Answer 13

been veggie for some time,it came to me more then i asked for it.

about lions(eating)humans it sure is wild and cruel.

could not have meat on my plate without thinking how it got there.

Answer 14

if you were really her friend you'd accept her for her.

everyone has there own beliefs. those are hers.

the thing about the lion is that we arent in the wild, are we.

Answer 15

i think someone said why eat meat, there is no up side...actually you are wrong.....lean white meats contain readily available sources of nutrients that are easier to obtain than any plant or vegetable mixture.....and to prove lean white meats are healthy...look at jessica alba, voted sexiest women of the year 2007 by FHM, her diet is grains, fruit veg and lean white meats....does she look unhealthy to you???? no

like iv said before you can be very healthy if you are a vegan, vegetarian or omnivore...diet alone does not determine ones health....someone who eats a fair amount of junk food but goes to the gym everyday is still going to be in better shape than someone who eats sensibly but never exercises

EDIT veggie-wedgie...why do you an countless others assume that we only eat meat because it tastes good...there are plenty of nutrients in meat.

Nutrients Found in Red Meat

Vitamin A Essential for healthy bones, skin and eyes and strengthens the immune system.

Vitamin B1

(Thiamine)

Supports energy production in the body, helps the heart and digestive and nervous

systems to function.

Vitamin B2

(Riboflavin)

Supports energy production in the body, essential for formation of red blood cells,

maintaining healthy skin, hair and nails and can help to prevent cataracts.

Vitamin B3

(Niacin)

Helps the digestive and nervous systems to function. Maintains healthy skin and red

blood cell count. Essential for energy metabolism.

Vitamin B5 Helps to maintain healthy skin.

Vitamin B6 Helps the digestive and nervous systems to function. Essential for healthy red blood

cells and maintains fluid balance.

Vitamin B12 Helps red blood cells and bone marrow to form. Helps to maintain healthy

cardiovascular and nervous systems. Deficiency can cause anaemia.

Vitamin D Essential for bone development and a healthy heart. Helps to metabolise calcium.

Vitamin K Regulates blood clotting

Chromium Required to metabolise sugar and regulates the action of insulin.

Copper Helps with red blood cell production and lung function.

Folic Acid Essential for growth and division of cells, red blood cell formation.

Iron Carries oxygen from the lungs to the tissues around the body, deficiency can cause

anaemia.

Long-chain n-3

Fatty Acids

Can help to protect the heart.

Magnesium Keeps your heart and liver healthy, essential for strong bones and good muscle

function.

Potassium Maintains fluid and electrolyte balance in the body. Diets high in potassium can help

to reduce hypertension.

Selenium Plays a role in regulating the thyroid gland. Has antioxidant properties.

Zinc Essential for healthy skin, bones and teeth, immune and reproductive systems, liver

function and sense of smell and taste. Important for brain development in the young

so please dont be so naive

Answer 16

I think you are the naive one here, your friend has the right to not eat meat because of ethical reasons.  Wild animals instinct is to kill to survive and they don't have a choice in the matter - we humans do and it down to individuals to make that choice and down to other to respect their reasons.

Answer 17

What is cruel to some is just a fact of life and death to others.  Who can adequately define cruel?

Answer 18

It's up to the individual to make their own decisions. It doesn't really matter if someone else agrees or not.

Lots of people believe all kinds of things that don't make any sense to me.

Live your own life and accept it.

Answer 19

i became vegetarian because i like animals alot  and i had a very bad experience where someone gave me some meat ..i ate it and a little later he did something bad to me..and i felt like he treated me like a piece of meat!!. i did not become vegetarian for health reasons.

i used to eat alot of hare krshna food for a little while (i just liked their food) . later i  read a ton of stuff about animal abuse from peta and animal testing . i just buy stuff that says "not tested on animals"   but i didn't become vegetarian becuz of peta. people are animals but we are not the same as a lion .we dont have to eat meat. some people like animals alot and they dont like the idea of eating  meat.whats wrong with that? i definitely did not become vegetarian becuz of a website. do u have a hard time when u go out to eat with these friends ?. seems to me that theres always something on the menu that a meat eater can eat.theres lots of studies that there would be more food in the world if more people didn't eat meat becuz of the grain supply.(still thinking of going vegan maybe)

Answer 20

You're being a little naive if you think free range = cruelty free.  Those animals are still bred, confined and slaughtered to please human tastebuds.

Your friend is not a lion, who (a) has to eat meat to survive and (b) lacks the capacity to measure it's actions against a moral code.  YOU don't have to consider her reasons justified; it's HER ethics that inform her decision, not yours.  It's a little arrogant to think her choice doesn't matter because you don't agree with it.

Answer 21

The reasons you list are generally the ones I have heard too.  My sister is vegan (no animal products) and my daughter is vegetarian (but eats dairy and eggs)

The only other reason I can suggest is that some people's bodies actually react badly to animal meat products.  This is true for both my sister and daughter.

Years ago, I had a work friend who was vegetarian, and his answer to your safari question would have been, that in that situation he would eat meat to survive, as people in the past have, ie the Inuit, the cavemen, aboriginals.  He would have said that we have the option not to get our protein in that way, and it is a personal choice.

Answer 22

I'm a vege cause I was brought up that way; I am allowed to change and stuff I'm just not bothered. It would be weird eating meat. I see your point though.

Answer 23

Because not everyone shares the same morality.

I don't think it's naive at all. Just different to you.

Do you think it's cruel to make 6 yr old boys work in mines?

Some places that's not cruel, just how things are.

Answer 24

Yes, we are justified in doing it for ethical reasons.  I don't think you realize how cruely animals are treated so that we can have meat, dairy, and eggs.  For every vegetarian 100 animals are saved.  Just go to meat.com and watch the video and you may feel differently.  I was a vegetarian for over two years and I became a vegan a couple of months ago after watching the video.  Chickens and dairy cows are the worst treated of all the animals.  These animals are in extremely crowded and unsanitary conditions.  They are slaughtered by their throats being slashed and they are castrated while they are still alive.  Also these animals are injected with hormones and antibiotics.  That isn't what I want to be putting into my body.  No, it isn't naive.  You are naive for thinking that it is okay to not be a vegetarian.  Free-range organic meat? These animals are still killed for food so that doesn't make a world of difference to me.  Also, I am very healthy and I have never looked or felt better.  If you want to be a meat eater that is fine but don't put down people who are vegetarians/vegans.  Humans shouldn't eat animals.  There is plenty for me to eat without playing a part in animal cruelty.  Would you like if animals ate humans? I think not!!!

Answer 25

For whatever reason a person chooses to be a vegetarian, it is thier choice and its not harming anyone and THEY have already justified it on their own terms. Free-range animals are not as "free" as you may think. And typically I dont know of many vegetarians that would think to go on a safari because it IS cruel in many vegetarians opinions.  Either way as long as neither of you are force feeding your beliefs onto the other (no pun intended) no harm done right?  As far as being justified or naive or ethical or whatever, it will always be up for debate as long as humans are humans.  Everyone is entitled to thier own opinion....and its cool.

Answer 26

We're of higher intelligent than lions thus of higher moral standing. Lions are carnivorous and going on their basic survival instincts when they attack. But by eating them (animals), we're just being greedy - because we really don't need meat. All dietary requirements can be obtained from a plant based diet if done correctly.

By eating a vegetarian diet we consume more wholegrains, fruits, vegetables, pulses and legumes - and in turn more vegetable proteins, essential fatty acids, fibre, antioxidants and less cholesterol and saturated fats.

I am a vegetarian because;

1. It encourages a healthier diet;

2. I can't stand flesh in my mouth (I liken it to eating someones arm) ... all bloody and fleshy. Ugh.

3. I have an ethical problem with killing animals - I would kill and eat animals if my survival depended on it (traditional food-chain style) but I doubt I will ever be in that situation.

I think the more appropriate question would be, "Why do we eat meat?" I really don't see an upside!

Answer 27

I think some people have the view that breeding, rearing and killing animals in a massive industrial way in order to feed humans is unethical. This is a subjective point of view but is highly understandable and yes vegetarians ethical beliefs have a number of very valid points.

You mention organic meat, however, that still has to be produced with all the modern cruelties that meat rearing entails. The cattle is breed for meat and the young males slaughtered to produce female only herds etc. The animals that we eat don't just get born in the wild and then die of old age, there is a massive industry behind this production.

Your comparison to a Lion is bogus, as Human meat production is very very far removed from nature and is carried out in an intensive mechanical way

There is also the very real ethical problem about rearing meat for human consumption in connection with the land it uses. We have vast heards that need to be grazed, we do this by cutting down rain forrests and allowing the cattle to take over. This has affected the cliamte of the planent. Then these heards need to be fed, we do this by growing garin uin countries taht will produce very cheaply. These countries often don't have enough grain to feed their own populace but we take what they have to feed our cattle so that McDonalds has an infinite supply of cheeseburgers.

Yes there are many valid ethical decision in relation to meat eating, not just about the animals, but about our planet, ecology and starvation. I think your friend ahs made a very courageous and informed decision and I congatulate her for doing so (BTW I am a meat eater, but I acknowlege the unethica problems this creates especially in the third world and for our climate)

Answer 28

I'm vegan for several reasons (health, environmental, social, and political), but first and foremost I'm an ethical vegan.

Just like you don't see ethics as justification for your friend's lifestyle, I don't see your taste preferences and bad habits as justification for murder.

And your "lion" comparison holds absolutely no merit, hon.  You're not a lion in the wild - you're a human animal.  You have the physiology, intelligence, and a choice to thrive on an animal-free diet.  The lion does not.

Answer 29

I have always been a vegetarian.  When my mother chose to become a vegetarian it was because she realized that she didn't even like the meat anyways, and she also saw how the creatures were treated.  I mean, if you were born and immediately taken from your mother and chained by the neck for a couple months with barely any food and not capable of moving at all, just to be killed brutally to feed people who don't really need it, wouldn't you be kind of upset?  I'm not trying to push or anything, I just think it's unfair how they are treated.