Why does Israel have no separation of church and state?

Question

Correct me if I am wrong... but:

They were formed from the graceful hands of democracy; recently one of their leaders (I forget the name) praised American, as a wonderful phenomenon; yet they don't have separation of church and state. They sing religious hymes as they forcefully perform circumcisions on their children. (I know America performs circumcisions, and I am against circumcisions, however we do not get into it so much as to sing religious songs while cutting up a kids p***s.) I think it is fair to say that you will recieve more respect in Israel for your beliefs than in an islamic nation. However, I have a hard time being anti-islamic extremism and pro-Israel. The only difference between them is one is pissed off at non-believers, at the moment, and the other isent. Who is to say that Israel will not gradually become the same as current Islamic run nations. What I mean by this is; in an islamic nation, if you are not islamic, then you better hide or leave the country. (But you will probably die before you can do that.) How do we know that Israel will not eventually become the same way, when there are no strong governmental laws preventing such a fanatical future.

Answer 1

There is no one church in judiasm so there is a seperation of church and state there.  They do have several political parties (rather than our two) and some of them are religious in nature.  They also have a different system similiar to the British.

Answer 2

I think you are really just babbling away. You are using a lot of words to hide you anti-semitism.  You think that Israel will eventually become like Islamic extremist nations?  I dont think your question has anything to do with circumcision. You give a passing glance to muslim nations but just keep harping on what if Israel does this or that.  Well they just might if a close minded individual such as you became their leader.  There are countries around them that cant keep any peace with all the oil they have and yet the Isralies have managed to take a piece of desert and have turned it into a true promised land for themselves.  there were people like you around in the 1930's.  They kept repeating lies like this until when the smoke cleared in 1945  There were over  20 million. people dead on this Earth.

Answer 3

Perhaps a better question would be: Why do you have such a poor concept of the separation of church and state and its application in America vs. the rest of the world?

What I mean by that is that even in America the phrase "separation of church and state" is merely a popular way of expressing it. It is not enshrined in the constitution or the law of the land in that exact manner. Rather, what there is is the stipulation that the government should not establish a state religion. This has the effect of basically making the government and its institutions secular. That is all.

Also, that is how it is defined in the USA. When it comes to other countries, the "separation" may in fact be more or even less than it is in the USA. However, the end result is that Western style democracies are all secular and their institutions are secular, and this includes Israel.

Which brings us to your example. Of all the examples that you could have picked, that has to be the worst.

You are arguing that Israel does not have separation of church and state because in Israel they perform religious circumcisions? But the fact that they perform religious circumcisions has to do with the fact that most of the population is either jewish or Muslim who are following the dictates of their religion. It has NOTHING to do with the state.

Perhaps it would interest you to know that religious circumcisions are performed in America and the world over in the exact same manner that they are performed in Israel.

And also for the record, you do not have a clue what is done at Jewish religious circumcisions. There are no "hymns" sung during the circumcision though there are blessings recited before and after the act. And your distaste for such a thing is pointless when it comes to your "argument".

Update:

Oh, how clever of you. You give us a video of an Israeli anti circumcision polemic and think that you have "proved your point". Care to tell me what exactly the mohel (that's the person doing the circumcision, in case you didn't know) was saying?

Oh, yeah, that's right. He was saying the blessing. He was just doing it in a "sing song-y" voice that is quite common for many (but not all) to do while reciting blessings, either for this or other occasions. That does not, BTW, imply a hymn. A hymn, BTW, is "A song of praise or thanksgiving to God or a deity." http://www.answers.com/topic/hymn

For the record, I am Jewish and not only have attended numerous religious circumcisions but I have had two sons who have had them. In other words, I am quite aware of how a full bris (that's the ceremony) looks like. I do not need some ignorant person to tell me what one looks like by linking to a YouTube video.

Normally, I wouldn't be so hard on you because, after all, I can't expect everyone to be knowledgeable about such things. But its when you use your utter lack of knowledge about such matters to make some illogical political point that doesn't even make sense... well, I think you get the point. (And if you didn't, then there's nothing more I can say.)

Answer 4

Actually, there are very few restrictions imposed on non-Jews -

It's illegal to breed pigs on Israeli soil (which is easily bypassed by breed them on separate platforms),

It's illegal to display "hametz" (bread products) on Passover (this one isn't even enforced).

The most annoying one is that there are no buses and trains on Sabbath.

Circumcision is not mandatory, not even for Jews, and same for almost all other Jewish customs.

Israel was created as a home and a haven for the Jewish people, and therefore sets laws that will allow Jews to keep their customs, while interfering as little as possible with the rights of the people from other religions.

Answer 5

America was founded on freedom from any one religion. Israel, on the other hand, was founded FOR religion. It was created after WW2 as a safe haven for the Jewish people, who had been persecuted throughout much of history. It is not America, it does not pretend to be America. Britain, btw, which gave the land to Israel in the first place, also has an official national religion. Just because Israel is a Jewish nation does not mean they persecute members of other faiths. You can be christian, or muslim, or hindu and still be Israeli. I understand that their immigration laws favor Jews, but that was part of the original deal- that Israel would be a "homeland" for all Jewish people worldwide.

As for circumcision- it is certainly despicable, but I'm unsure what your point is? Noone in Israel is forced to circumcise their child- indeed there are intactivists in Israel. And circumcision is a religious rite for Jews, so I don't see how reciting blessings, singing, and having other religious content at a religious circumcision is offensive. If you were secular and say, the doctor broke into religious ritual during this, or any procedure, sure, it would be offensive. But circumcision has always been primarily a religious procedure, and when performed in a religious context, you can't fault them for performing the ritual.

If you are trying to be anti-circumcision- cite the qct itself as wrong, not the religious ceremonies attached to it. (because it would still be offensive even if they didn't sing) If you are an anti-semite, go back to your little hole and please don't come back. -Neb

Answer 6

They (Isreal) was not established under the same precepts as the US.

The US was founded upon the principles of separation of Church & State.  This means that the "State" will recognize no official religion.  (Example...the Church of England).

Modern liberals and those that aspire to be politically correct have selectively interpreted that as meaning that founding fathers intended for all of us to be athiests.

Not all countries are founded on religious freedom.  

Answer 7

Exactly.  Any country which allows religion to dominate is a fanatical country; it doesn't matter what the religion is.  

Israel is an interesting anomoly.  While religion and state are not separated, there are high numbers of athiests in Israel.  

Israel is already fanatical, and it will only get worse.