Why dont people seem to understand that?

Question

only fighting works in fighting

when you get down to it, real combat is not fixed and is very much "alive." the fancy mess (a form of paralysis) solidifies and conditions what was once fluid, and when you look realistically at it, it is nothing but a blind devotion to the systematic uselessness of practicing routines or stunts that lead nowhere.

Answer 1

I agree with bunminju about both kata beimg for self defense and not fighting, and their is a difference, but many who are MMA nutbagger's do not seem to grasp that.

I can also see where anti thesis gets his ideas because yes, many do train kata with no idea of what they are doing, or how they should be trained, however, anti thesis has shown a remarkable lack of open mindedness, even when myself, pugpaws and others have said yes you are right, kata alone will not teach you everything, you need to actually practice the techniques with aliveness through sparring and randori.

He uses his "debate" as an attempt to trash kata and people who beleive in it. Last i knew a debate was about actually listening to new ideas, and considering different points of view, neither of which he does. I also do not know how somebody who has trained kata the right way, could ever say it does not teach effective self defense, and people like him ignore the fact that almost every traditional system uses kata as a teaching tool, and most of them were developed when losing a fight probably meant being crippled for life or being dead. That being said if you want to actually discuss, discuss without trashing it. I do not think you have ever had the skightest correct kata training, which definetly does not qualify you to trash it.

Answer 2

Probably because many of the martial arts are considered to be sports rather than survival techniques.

Answer 3

So what is it you are really trying to say here. I've read the question and you seem to be trying to make a point.  ???

Anti Thesis  ... you are really harping on something that you either don't get or don't want to get. I have no intention of spending time doing kata if there is not much more to them than meets the eye. Why don't you let people ask about kata and make their own decisions. You have no facts to prove what you are claiming. On the other hand I have many years of experience in the area of understanding the applications from them. It is to bad that you are not close to me. I'd be happy to show you some of what you claim does not exist. I have an engineering, science and computer background. I don't believe in fairy tales. I believe in what someone can prove to me. I was very skeptical some years ago. Then someone was kind enough to show me the how and why of kata.  So either do your homework or just leave others alone to draw their own conclusions.

Answer 4

Your question makes very little sense. Please rephrase it with proper english.

But yes, fighting is the best way to practice for fighting. Welcome to 1993.

Answer 5

You should compose your own thoughts and ideas instead of regurgitating Bruce Lee's sentiments from "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do."

Edit - you must be channeling Bruce Lee, then. You plagiarized it exactly as he said it, complete with terminology.

Answer 6

I have no idea what you mean by this.   Sounds like you are trying your best to sound intelligent on a subject which you are very lacking.  

It sounds like you are saying that the only way to learn to fight is to fight.   Soo, this means that you need no instruction, just go and fight and you will become good.  You do not need any techniques or practice.  Excellent, you must be a prodigy.  The rest of us need to first learn a technique, move, or combo before actually becoming proficent at it.  

Even the simplest things, like how to punch, block or kick, you must learn from somewhere.  Usually (hopefully) this comes from another person who has the experience that a beginner lacks.   So once you learn one punch, one block, and one kick, are you now ready for the Cage? Didnt think so.  The learning process involves many techniques, usually in a short sequence.  Then you must learn how to apply them to an actual person, IE, sparring.  After that can you do some real fighting and gain the experience that you will need to survive and/or win a fight.

The main difference with most MMA and TMA, is how the first techniques are learned.  Most MMA gyms teach very similar to boxing, where you take one or two things and drill them tirelessly, then move to others.  Then you learn how to bridge two or more together into a combo. (Or you learn to pass guard, ect).  The more of these you learn, the better your attack and defense.

TMA styles have our techniques in sets which have been

passed down over a very long time.    This is where we take our techniques from.  Simply take a small part of the form, and drill it very similar to the MMA idea.  Then you move on, again, much like the MMA idea.  Odd though that TMA was around, doing this same thing, for quite some time before MMA was popular.  

To become a good fighter, you need 3 things;

Technique (Drills or forms)(no opponent)

Practice (Sparring)(willing opponent)

Experience(Fighting)(resisting opponent)

The person (MMA or TMA) who has these in the most quantity will 95% of the time win the fight.

That said, anyone who says that they do not need to apply their techniques to know that they work, or they do not need to spar or fight, then they are not Martial Artists, they are just artists and will be lacking the Fighting skills necessary to win most fights.

Answer 7

You can also build muscle memory by repetition, I think katas are overrated and a marketing tool that just my opinion, I say learn some wrestling and boxing,also you lose a lot of technique in a fight.

Answer 8

i dont think anyone would understand that. i had no idea what you meant.

Answer 9

but isn't it possible that practicing forms can build a strength and muscle memory that might come in handy if real defense of one's life is necessary?

Answer 10

Another Bruce Lee fan. We all go thru that phase...

and then we realize that while he was amazing, he was still but a "beginner" and only following the process of Shu-Ha-Ri.

Answer 11

uhh thats why alive training is important arts that focus on kata are BS

Answer 12

This question has been asked hundreds of times, and the statement is made with an incomplete level of understanding. Look at the past threads as they have covered this topic.

Answer 13

Can't blame anti thesis for his point of view because there are many who do kata and view kata exactly for the reasons he states.

They are as bad and misinformed as those who say kata is useless

And I agree fighting teaches fighting ...........but it doesn't neccesarily teach self defense .Two totally different aspects of martial arts .THERE ISN'T A STYLE IN THE WORLD THAT HASN'T HAD A PARTICIPANT GO DOWN TO THUGS AND CRIMINALS AND JUST PLAIN STREET FIGHTERS USUALLY BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T GRASP THIS VERY IMPORTANT CONCEPT.

Kata teaches self defense period nothing else.

Answer 14

I am fairly new to Yahoo Answers Martial Arts so let me use this question to add my 2 cents to the redundancy.

A lot of people stick to katas and forms because it looks cool and it makes them feel "special", "exotic", and "different". To them, knowing exotic movements and dances is what defines their art and signals to their peers that they have some crazy, SUPER SECRET ancient knowledge - some even go so far as bringing ancient japanese/chinese cultural rituals into their suburban homes which I find funny and pretentious, and somewhat offensive.

That being said, katas and forms are being used as a marketing tool to the parents of kids entering into these dojos. It looks exotic and cool, it must be worth signing a contract for little timmy.

EDIT: PUGPAWS

If you want people to be able to draw their own conclusions, why won't you allow me to draw my own? Why do you assume that EVERYONE who disagrees with you is lacking knowledge? To place judgement on someone for being "judgemental" is an irrational and illogical behavior.

Keep this in mind: yes in this world of infinite possibilities, there could exists in this universe a person who is BOTH KNOWLEDGABLE AND DISAGREES WITH YOU - the difference between you and I is that I accept the debate, while you see it as an insult.

Just a thought.