Why is coercion by adoptees with bad childhoods accepted in here?

Question

Some adoptees with bad childhoods try to convince possible adopters to do something they may not have wanted to do... like do guardianship instead or adopt abused children in foster care when they want to parent a baby.

Answer 1

Good question

Honestly, as a PAP here I have felt VERY coerced by some of the adoptees here.. (I acknowledge that not all these adoption reformers here had bad childhoods, and I know you do too..)

"it's a selfish thing to want to be a mother of someone else's child when God obviously didn't want you to be a mother, because he made you infertile"

"You are not an ADOPTEE,  therefore don't understand anything about adoption, therefore you are not qualified to consider adoption or ask any questions/ answer any questions about adoption"

"You are selfish beyond selfish if you would like to start out motherhood with a BABY rather than an older foster child with multiple issues"

"You are interested in adopting rather than abolishing all adoption.. therefore you are the enemy"

"You are participating in coercion if you consider infant adoption because EVERY woman who surrenders their infant is tricked/forced/coerced"

I could go on and on and on. If those kinds of statements or attitudes AREN'T coercion, I don't know what is!!

Answer 2

you have to take some answers with a grain of salt. not everyone is going to give good advice. you just have to accept that and look for the true advice from caring people. it's unfortunate but everyone with an internet access can come here and say whatever they want. the fact is when people are considering something as big as adoption, they should be considering a heck of a lot more than answers on here!

Answer 3

Shelly P: nail, head.  You got it.

People have the right to express their opinions, certainly.  But I think that coersion works both ways here as well.  How many  questions from pregnant women considering adoption are answered, "Don't put your child up for adoption, you'll mess them up for life."  and "A child only needs its mother, that's YOU."  or "You'll be haunted and miserable if you adopt this child forever."

By definition, isn't that trying to coerce or pressure someone to parent their child?  Is coersion of any form wrong?

But as it applies to perspective adoptive parents, I agree also.  Some people on this board have made no bones about their belief that the only acceptible form of adoption is through foster care.  Nevermind that not everyone is cut out to be foster care parents, or should be foster care parents, or should be foster care parents at this point in their lives, or even WANT to be foster care parents.  And adopting children from the foster care system is not without its ethical dilemmas as well.  Abuse of power on the part of social workers, bad decisions on the part of judges also happen here as well.

So yes, saying that all domestic infant adoptions happen because the mother MUST have been coerced (because ethical domestic adoptions NEVER happen) or likewise that international adoptees MUST be stolen children and MUST be unhappy because international adoptees are never well adjusted and international adoptions all involve child trafficking, is a form of coersion as well.  

Call a spade, a spade, I guess.

ETA: I think people are missing the point of the question.  Take the scenario of someone considering placing their child for adoption.  If a responder says adoption is wonderful, you are selfless for doing this, the baby will have a better life, etc etc, there are people on the board that would be (and have) screaming coersion!  Pressure!

But those same people can say "Keep your baby or his/her life will be terrible and you'll never sleep at night" and that's okay.  

They're both a form of mild online coersion.  Why is one okay and the other is not?  I'm not talking about pressure in an adoption agency.  I'm talking about how people answer questions posed here.  Some people are reading way too much into this.

Answer 4

i had a great childhood!

i am still pro-guardianship and pro-family preservation.

Answer 5

What is being said is not directed toward every aparent. The point is, that not all adoptions are neccessary or being done ethically. That it makes more sense to help families stay together, than to be quite so quick to tear them apart. Adoption should be first and foremost about the needs of children not the wants of adults. If you want to help a child, why wouldn't you consider a child from foster care.

There are no guarantees that if you get a new born you will not have problems. Many problems exist in infant adoptions and these issues need to be addressed.

No one is against ethical adoption. There is a real need for good people who want to help. It's the money and the unethical practices that occur every day just so someone can make a buck. It's about how out of control the whole thing has gotten in the name of money. How all you have to do is be poor and your children are taken away. Poor is not a crime. Being an AP is not what is wrong.

Lying, pretending, being deceitful, not caring about the ramifications to others is what is wrong. There will always be willful adoptions. Sadly there will always be cases of neglect and abuse. Adopting an infant isn't wrong. Stealing kids and presenting them as abused, neglected, or wilfully being available is what is wrong.

If you knew that a child was in fact stolen, would you do the responsible thing and return the child? Would you help the child find their family?  If your adoption wasn't quite finalized and you found out that your child had a father who was tricked and wants to parent his child, would you do the right thing and back out of the adoption? Would you be willing to preserve a family because it is best for the child to be with their natural parents when ever possible? If you can say yes to these questions then the statements are not directed toward you.

If you are the kind of person that wants an infant so badly that you will knowingly accept one that has been stolen or misrepresented then the comments are directed toward you.

I don't know one person who is against ethical adoption.

If you are considering an infant adoption be responsible and don't buy into all the things you are being told. Ask questions, meet with both bparents, refuse to tear a family apart to accomodate your needs. It can't be fixed if people keep accepting children who are not legally available. The demand drives the market. Demand that your future child is exactly what they are being represented to be.

Answer 6

I agree with you 110%

Some people on here want to live in their little dream world and convince themselves that domestic infant adoptions are not necessary. Consider that todays infants that are adopted will not become one of the countless foster kids tomorrow. Some woman simply cannot and should not parent.

Working at a hospital we have atleast three abandoned drug addicted babies born a month.....they equally derserve a fighting chance.  Imagine your life beginng by being born addicted to a substance that you never chose to take and the one person that was meant to nurture and love you just left you behind with no way to contact her....it happens MORE than people on her want to admit.

Anyone on her ever watch one of these babies struggle to surive all alone? Or call an undertaker or civic organization willing to bury an abandoned baby who was never even given a first name?

If we can keep one more child from entering the fostercare system or worse then I say so be it!!!

Answer 7

When adoption is exploiting human beings of their rights and well being, I think every moral citizen has an obligation to stand up and speak the truth. If you saw a woman getting raped, would you just, turn your cheek? Because my people are raped everyday, of their rights, their identities, their heritage, we are sold, we are bargained, we are stolen and we are marketed. Because adoptees aren't being treated equally and until we are, I will be speaking against what is exploiting us.

Thats not coercion.  Opening up a door to facts, and proof of another side to the industry they've never seen and have a right to be shown is a blessing. Because the truth always prevails and one day, it will be there for them regardless of what happens when we come into contact on here or not. They have a door to research it more on their own NOW, by being shown a touch of it. Or they can turn a blind eye and let it catch up with them down the road.

There is a BIG difference in misleading someone to believe something, and showing a truth to a side that is often masked and hidden.

Why is bullying by you to others(one pap and adoptees who don't support adoption) on the answers board "accepted" here? Speaking of cliques I see one right here.

*yawn*

and the whole "bad childhoods" thing was really kinda tacky.

ETA:And all children who "need" a place to live, deserve that place without having to be stripped of their "everything" in the process JUST to be provided for. Adoption as it currently stands doesn't respect the child, or treat them with anything CLOSE to what they deserve.

AND it shouldn't be about what THEY want, but sadly it is too often in the United States. In fact, in my own personal opinion that is the fuel of the industry right there, about what "they" "want." I see no "spades" here this is apples and oranges.

It should ALWAYS be about what is best for the child. ALWAYS.

Answer 8

my standard answer:

when there are no more babies that need to be adopted then infant adoption will go away....

when there are no more children waiting if foster care....Foster care adoption will go away....

and

when there are no more children around the world who need a safe home and family...international adoption will go away.

Take care of the babies and children and there won't be any more adoption.

simple.

Answer 9

I think you need to re-word your question because I have trouble understanding what you're saying. By "adoptee" that means the one being adopted, right? And if they had a bad childhood, that means they just want someone to help them on their way till they reach at least 18. If they had a bad childhood why would they want another parent who might do the same? They opt for guardianship or foster care because they just want to get through it all and get out. People who are "adopters" usually want a baby, but healthy babies without problems or a bad background do not come easily to those willing to adopt. A lot of "adopters" might settle for a child who's not so "perfect," an older child with problems or a disability because they desperately want to be parents.

Answer 10

If what goes on here is coercion in your narrow minded opinion then what would you call the c**p going on behind closed agencies doors? Perhaps spiritual and psychological rape is a better term for the actual coercion abundant in adoption.

Oh and you nailed it in the last line "when they want to parent a baby." When THEY WANT! Me, me, me, mine, mine, mine. But let's not forget that adoption is about the child. Gimme a flipping break.

People telling their side of a story and sharing the hurt and confusion adoption can cause is hardly coercion. People usually make accusations such as this when they are feeling guilty over something they have done. Confession time?

Answer 11

First and foremost, I think you are being very insulting to adoptees.  Any adoptee who speaks out against adoption as it is now practiced is labeled.  Your adoptee label is that we adoptees who speak out is that we had bad childhoods.  

If you really want to adopt, you really need to listen to the adoptee voice.  These voices are what your adopted child will feel like in the future.  They may not voice it to you.  I can guarantee that they will feel it.  

Since prospective adoptive parents have some power with the amount of money that they spend, they should use that power responsibly.  Lord knows all of us can't get the adoption industry itself to act responsibly.  These PAPs drive the market for the adoption industry.  Trust me they don't like you anymore than they like us.  They tolerate you because you  have money.  

Its up to you as a prospective adoptive parent to get your child's information, heritage, original birth certificate, and  hopefully keep in some kind of contact with the natural family.  

I

Answer 12

I do not think it is accepted, I think it is overlooked by people who know in their hearts adoption is right and they want to be a parent.  Just because someone says on here they did not have a good experience, not to adopt, etc. etc.  I am not going to just talk them at their word.  I am living a very positive adoption experience, two of my best friends are adopted and have had a wonderful adoption, my oldest sister is adopted and has had a wonderful adoption, my grandmother is adopted and has had a wonderful adoption.

So truth, there are adoptee who have not, so they will vent their anger and frustration and on here are allowed too.  I just wish they would understand that not everyone is in their shoes.

Answer 13

Not all adoptees who are for adoption reforms have had "bad' childhoods.  You cannot paint everyone with the same brush.

Not all adoptions are bad, or good. Not all natural mothers are coerced to give up their babies.

Each experience is unique, and poeple coming here for answers should realize that all stories are different, and take them all with a grain of salt.

Answer 14

It is not coercion.  It is expressing their opinions.  They have reason to believe what they believe, whether you or I agree with it or not.  

Guardianship of an older child is often a better choice than adoption unless the CHILD wants to be.   I don't see any advantage to not adopting a child under 5.  The a/f-parent should consider various options and their legal ramifications.

Answer 15

Who are you to judge who had a bad childhood based solely on someone's opinion or feelings of having to grow up in the dark not knowing who they are or where they come from

It's not adoption itself but how infant adoption is PRACTICED the USA that is a travesty.  If you can't see that, then you must be blind.   My opinion on this is not influenced in any way by my childhood (which by the way was pretty decent, thanks)

Answer 16

Oh Kristy,

If you call the small words on your screen here 'coercion' - then truly you'll never ever understand what first mothers and adoptees go through in adoption.

I feel sorry for you.

ETA: I had a good childhood - but if you have to make such sweeping statements about those that you don't agree with to sleep better at night - more power to you.

Answer 17

1. Not liking being adopted or the institute of adoption in general has nothing whatsoever to do with having a good or bad childhood.  

2. Adoptees are allowed to post whenever we like "in here" as long as it follows the Y!A rules, just like everyone else.

3. Adoptees don't coerce anyone.  We leave that to the attorneys and adoption agencies (especially LDS family services).  

We adoptees simply give our experience and opinions.

4. We adoptees who speak in less than glowing terms regarding adoption do so because being adopted sucks, something non-adoptees don't know because...wait for it....THEY'RE NOT ADOPTED.  Hard concept to grasp, I know, but with a little effort, you may be able to comprehend.

Now how, pray tell, Googly-eyed Kristy, are people supposed to know what being adopted is like, if people like you keep wanting to censor us?  It's called freedom of speech, it's protected by law...you must have learned about it in junior high, right?  Maybe you just forgot.

Or is the problem just that you'd rather live in your fantasy world full of rainbows and unicorns looking through rose-colored glasses, and we're ruining it for you?

Answer 18

what, i'm confused. you dont think that child who are abused don't deserve to be adopted? Not sure i'm understanding your question. i bring to light that all children deserve to be adopted, just not white babies, or babies from other countries. there is a great need here for children in foster care to be adopted. i feel that they deserve a chance to have a loving home too. i have never coerciedd anyone to adopt just foster care children. i may have said that it takes special loving people to step up to the challenge to adopt thru foster care.

Answer 19

happymom

when there are no more 'adoption specialists' trolling for babies through fake 'crisis pregnancycentres then infant adoption will go away....

when there are no more children waiting if foster care....Foster care adoption will go away....(but lets face it most would rather take in international than a foster)

and

when there are no more children around the world who need a safe home and family...international adoption will go away.

Why is it in countries where infant adoption no longer is around that paps like Hugh Jackmans wife whine and whinge about it and try and encourage governments to allow them to take children from other countries much easier and to encourage young parents to give up their children again.

You are living in your fairytale life where you believe if the children werent there it wouldnt be a problem.

Adoption is not driven by the childrens needs... it is driven by PAP's needs, has been for a long time. Check out laws most of them are for the protection of the PAP not the adoptee.

Answer 20

Are you serious ? you're joking right ? you think that some people who happen to be adoptees on a message board are able to COERCE people into doing stuff ?

Are you really that naive ?

Someone who is absolutely sure of their convictions doesnt need to come to a message board to be validated that they are doing the right thing...there fore no coercion is actually happening

What is happening is that people who are wary of what they are doing are asking for OPINIONS And guess what googly, they are getting OPINIONS.

Based on FACT , EXPERIENCE and RESEARCH. Which people don't seem to want to do for themselves these days.

There is no coercion from adoptees on here, but i certainly see a lot of coercion from paps wanting to adopt a baby, to the young or not so young but single and frightened pregnant mothers that come on here and get told "you're doing the right thing, far better than Murdering your baby, Give it to some DESERVING Parents"

Yep thats what i see on here..........Ive seen those VERY words

Answer 21

I don't know, why is coercion by adoption agencies and PAP's with their "Dear Birthmother" letters and pre-birth matches and paying pregnant women's rent and groceries and medical bills and for maternity clothes, why is THAT accepted anywhere?

Hmmm?

If we want to get down to comparing coercion to coercion, I'd say the greater of the two evils is tricking a woman into giving up her baby, NOT some random name on a computer screen telling their own truth about the damage that adoption has done and continues to do to those who are MOST affected by it...the ADOPTEE.

For the record, I had a great childhood too...my adoptive parents were hands-down better than any of the adopters here put together...but that still does not cancel out the fact that taking me from my family, changing my name, sealing up MY records and making me some type of criminal for wanting them, is a very harsh and painful price to pay for having to be adopted.

Not to mention the pain and humiliation of not having that genetic mirroring all my life, not being related to anyone, not sharing any traits with my adoptive family, never feeling as though I fit in, etc. etc. etc.  I'm sure you've read it all before but it's probably trivial to you because it pales in comparison to the pain of the pooooooor adopters who just want a baaaaaaaaaaby to love.

Whatever.  I'm sick to death of beating the same fricking drum.