Why is it that you can find some "traditions" of the Catholic Church in the Gnostic Gospels?

Question

Like Mary being and virgin forever and stuff. It's in the gnostic, not in the bible. Yet they still believe this, why?

Answer 1

If you stop waving your bible for a while and get your history books you will understand well enough not to post the question.

In the beginning there was no Catholic Church as such - everyone who believed in Jesus Christ was a Christian.  Christianity then, was not the monolithic structure that it be became some four hundred years afterwards.  Instead, it was a loose autonomous collection of Christian communities or churches.  As a result, some communities evolved certain teachings and practices that began to clash with what other churches believed in.  In time, the doctrinal chasm between the churches had become so wide heads of various churches had to be called in general assemblies or Councils to thresh out differences.  As a result of each council, all items of faith are listed down and voted on to determine what should be considered as the set of beliefs that should represent Christianity.  Those majority who shared the same beliefs came to be known as the Orthodox or Catholic (for universal) while those who persisted in following their beliefs outside of the Universal faith were called heretics and their teachings heresies or errors.  Gnosticism was one of these heresies.  But we have to understand that heretical churches did not reject all the items of beliefs summed up in the Catholic Creed.  They only refuse to acknowledge certain items of the Catholic faith.    As a result, as the divide became irreparable, we still see Gnostics doing characteristically Catholic rituals and liturgical practices.  They still looked like your typday-to- day Christian in many respects, except they denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, among other erroneous ideas.

The Gnostics came from the Catholic Church, thus the similarity in some other, and contrary to what you seem to insinuate,  it was the Gnostics who came later than the standard.  who wrote their different version of the Good News but still retained some key points from holy Mother Church.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

Answer 2

Because the Catholic Church had possession of these books first and kept them secret from society by order of the aristocracies of the world that feared how the populations would be if they became aware of such things in those days.

The aristocracies feared democracy generally and how disorder would come from that democracy.  Perhaps they were right?  Perhaps in those days, large populations were not ready for the progression of democracy in order to maintain order.  Perhaps there was not enough general affluence and education to give that privilege to the masses?  Perhaps the populations were not even averagely living long enough to appreciate the unfolding thoughts of these gospels.

Even churches to this day only teach certain selected parts of the Bible on a regular basis.  Many preachers are not prepared to debate anything else.  Anything that points to Christ being mean and unreasonable is left out of the Sunday spiels.

Times are changing.  People are living longer, evaluating their human lives more and gradually these organized religions are falling.  People are finding them a waste of their time and energy in such a short life where there is so much to take in.

Life does not always seem FAIR!

Hi!  I am a Forgive Affirmed Spirit and this is what I profess and try to act like.

Forgive Affirmed Spirit is the belief in a way of life that is a method of grief resolution and functional communication processing involving active listenning, sympathy, empathy and affirmation of shock, denial, anger, guilt, depression, loneliness and hope...a kind of ego-equilibrium seeking methodology.

A Greater Works of communication and action, a way to learn to love your enemies "Advocating mortal life, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you AS IF YOU WERE THEM!"  



And nobody is perfect!  NOBODY!  We are all judgeable, hopefully in a graceful discerning way!   We are all doing our best every moment!

Humans judge everything  as we are a part of it.  Without difference, we have nothing to live for, nothing to witness.  Sin is difference, the relative seriousness with regards to law and survival of other beings, is punishable by the courts. The best way to judge is with as much graceful discernment as one can muster in a given moment!

Life is the question(uncertainty) asked by the exhaling infinitely compacted imagination invention, or no thing, which is completely certain of everything, completely omniscient or all knowing.

When I die, I believe I will be in a new state, aware of all that is and yet divided into the nature of dust that I am in, whereupon my dust shall fall.  My being will remain an infinite part of an infinite being and infinite knowledge without my material human being status of now. So there will be a change.



But my soul, my passions and discompassions, will move on to infinite places of comfort and challenge.  Able to return to this state of uncertainty and free choice illusion for another ride when it is called effectively to do so.

So that the children of God, the creations of God, .. are actually part in parcel of that God or Creation Energy!

This  life is a roller coaster ride. Enjoy your passion within it and whatever gathering of two or more in Forgive Affirmed Spirit to make it better can garner.

Healing be unto you and yours and me and mine in

Forgive Affirmed Spirit

Answer 3

Because even though the gnostic gospels are not the inspired word of God, they do paint a historical picture. They give us some insight into what was believed by the early Christians. In addition to some writings of the early Christians themselves, we also have the gnostic gospels that actually corroborate that these beliefs were indeed held by the early Christians.

Being a heretical gospel does not take away from it's historical value.

Answer 4

You have to admire a religion that doesn't stick so rigidly to the Bible that they become mindless robots.  I appreciate that the Catholics accept that certain things in the Bible are symbolic, and their traditions are often quite nice.

Answer 5

The Gnostics were some of the first Christians.

Answer 6

The Catholic church is the original Christian church, you, of all people should know that.

It is the protestants who have completely bastardized your religion and turned it into something that your Christ would not recognize.

Answer 7

"Hail Mary Full of Grace"

"All generations shall call me blessed"

It is not a far stretch is it?

The concept that Mary had other kids and was not perpetually a Virgin is a really new heresy.

Even Luther believed in the Perpetual Virginity of Mary!

Peace be with you!

Answer 8

I think you're thinking of the Protoevangelium of James...that is not a Gnostic text...it is simply a story of Mary's parents - Joachim and Anne - and their raising of Mary (with the priests) and her marriage to Joseph...it is considered supplemental, but since it's authorship and historical date of authorship cannot be determined, it is simply an early Christian writing.

The Infancy Gospel of Thomas is about Jesus having all these "super-powers" as a boy and using them mischievously...it's a fun story to read, but it hardly has anything in it that a Christian church (of any franchise) would embrace...

I know of know text or tradition that could be considered "gnostic" in origin embraced by the Catholic Church.  The closest thing in modern Christianity that has a gnostic influence would be Calvin's doctrine of pre-destination...gnostics believed that there were sparks of the divine on earth trapped in the bodies of only a few select humans.  So therefore, only a few people can be saved.  Catholics believe all people can be saved if they live good lives and care for others.

Answer 9

Not everything that was taught is in the Bible, dear.

In fact, the Bible itself was passed down orally for many, many years before it actually became the Bible. It didn't fall out of the sky, bound in leather, with KJV stamped on the cover...

That is why your hero Paul :) said to hold fast to the Traditions...etc etc..

An important historical document which supports the teaching of Mary’s perpetual virginity is the Protoevangelium of James, which was written probably less than sixty years after the conclusion of Mary’s earthly life (around A.D. 120), when memories of her life were still vivid in the minds of many.

According to the world-renowned patristics scholar, Johannes Quasten: "The principal aim of the whole writing [Protoevangelium of James] is to prove the perpetual and inviolate virginity of Mary before, in, and after the birth of Christ" (Patrology, 1:120–1).

To begin with, the Protoevangelium records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.

However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated "virgin of the Lord," to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).

According to the Protoevangelium, Joseph was required to regard Mary’s vow of virginity with the utmost respect. The gravity of his responsibility as the guardian of a virgin was indicated by the fact that, when she was discovered to be with child, he had to answer to the Temple authorities, who thought him guilty of defiling a virgin of the Lord. Mary was also accused of having forsaken the Lord by breaking her vow. Keeping this in mind, it is an incredible insult to the Blessed Virgin to say that she broke her vow by bearing children other than her Lord and God, who was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.

The perpetual virginity of Mary has always been reconciled with the biblical references to Christ’s brethren through a proper understanding of the meaning of the term "brethren." The understanding that the brethren of the Lord were Jesus’ stepbrothers (children of Joseph) rather than half-brothers (children of Mary) was the most common one until the time of Jerome (fourth century). It was Jerome who introduced the possibility that Christ’s brethren were actually his cousins, since in Jewish idiom cousins were also referred to as "brethren." The Catholic Church allows the faithful to hold either view, since both are compatible with the reality of Mary’s perpetual virginity.

Today most Protestants are unaware of these early beliefs regarding Mary’s virginity and the proper interpretation of "the brethren of the Lord." And yet, the Protestant Reformers themselves—Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli—honored the perpetual virginity of Mary and recognized it as the teaching of the Bible, as have other, more modern Protestants.

Answer 10

Hey pal, Gnostic has no relation with the general Roman Catholic belief (you have made the mistake to call Roman Catholic as Catholic.).

I am not a Roman Catholic.  

Gnostic is a wide cover of group of people believe in special revelation, and claim directly from heaven, and not on Bible. They arn't RC.

Regards

Answer 11

Mary, the mother of Jesus?

I'm curious, because I own the Nag Hammadi library but I haven't read the whole thing. If you could point out where this is, I would love to read it.

Thanks.

edit- ok, thanks (again)

Answer 12

For the same reasons the protestants believe it,

Martin Luther

Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that.

Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that 'brothers' really mean 'cousins' here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.

A new lie about me is being circulated. I am supposed to have preached and written that Mary, the mother of God, was not a virgin either before or after the birth of Christ . . .

Scripture does not say or indicate that she later lost her virginity . . .

When Matthew [1:25] says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her . . . This babble . . . is without justification . . . he has neither noticed nor paid any attention to either Scripture or the common idiom.

John Calvin

Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ's 'brothers' are sometimes mentioned.

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called 'first-born'; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation.

Under the word 'brethren' the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity.

Huldreich Zwingli

He turns, in September 1522, to a lyrical defense of the perpetual virginity of the mother of Christ . . . To deny that Mary remained 'inviolata' before, during and after the birth of her Son, was to doubt the omnipotence of God . . . and it was right and profitable to repeat the angelic greeting - not prayer - 'Hail Mary' . . . God esteemed Mary above all creatures, including the saints and angels - it was her purity, innocence and invincible faith that mankind must follow. Prayer, however, must be . . . to God alone . . .

'Fidei expositio,' the last pamphlet from his pen . . . There is a special insistence upon the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Zwingli had printed in 1524 a sermon on 'Mary, ever virgin, mother of God.'

I have never thought, still less taught, or declared publicly, anything concerning the subject of the ever Virgin Mary, Mother of our salvation, which could be considered dishonourable, impious, unworthy or evil . . . I believe with all my heart according to the word of holy gospel that this pure virgin bore for us the Son of God and that she remained, in the birth and after it, a pure and unsullied virgin, for eternity.

Heinrich Bullinger

Bullinger (d. 1575) . . . defends Mary's perpetual virginity . . . and inveighs against the false Christians who defraud her of her rightful praise: 'In Mary everything is extraordinary and all the more glorious as it has sprung from pure faith and burning love of God.' She is 'the most unique and the noblest member' of the Christian community . . .

'The Virgin Mary . . . completely sanctified by the grace and blood of her only Son and abundantly endowed by the gift of the Holy Spirit and preferred to all . . . now lives happily with Christ in heaven and is called and remains ever-Virgin and Mother of God.'

John Wesley (Founder of Methodism)

I believe... he [Jesus Christ] was born of the blessed Virgin, who, as well after as she

brought him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin.

Answer 13

Phony gospels often intertwine authentic beliefs with nonsense, figuring that most people can't tell the difference, anyway.

That doesn't make the gnostic gospels any less fake ... or authentic Catholic Tradition any less true.

The Holy Spirit guides the authentic Church, from age to age, through sacred Tradition.  

Answer 14

Gnostic writings have some truth and some lies.Oral tradition was passed on to every one regardless.Why did the church not put these writings in to prove The Virgin? It's because they where not all truth, now they could have easily put them in to convict others of thisTruth but they don't work that way, maybe some church's would have but they weren't around when the true church was established.